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Electric Train Heat Question

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kermit

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Just saw a photo which prompted a thought.

It was from the 1980s and featured a class 50 hauling a rake of air con ETH Mk 2 stock.

But, as was so often the case, immediately behind the 50 was a Mk1 Guard's / parcels carriage. Clearly some sort of through cable carried the ETH. Did they all have conduits for the ETH supply (surely not in the early days when steam heat was the norm), or could only a limited pool of suitably fitted vehicles be used?
 
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Wikipedia

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Some MK1s were steam heat only, some electric heat only and some had both systems. Presumably the mentioned Mk1 was one of the later 2.
 
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edwin_m

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The coach was probably a Mk1 BG (Brake Gangwayed, sometimes known as a full brake). Many of these were retrofitted with electric train heat and air brakes so they could run with later Mk2 and Mk3 stock which was similarly fitted. For example practically every West Coast Mk3 set included a Mk1 BG until the Driving Van Trailers replaced them, because only a handful of Mk3 brake coaches were ever built.

For similar reasons you would often see Mk1 catering vehicles in Mk2 and Mk3 sets. No Mk2 catering coaches were built (some were converted later) and the Mk3 loco-hauled buffets were several years later than the saloons.
 
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kermit

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Thanks for the replies. Just out of curiosity, were any of these vehicles fitted only with through cabling (rather than ETH of their own, which would clearly involve a through cable as well as the heaters)?
 
matchmaker

matchmaker

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kermit said:
Thanks for the replies. Just out of curiosity, were any of these vehicles fitted only with through cabling (rather than ETH of their own, which would clearly involve a through cable as well as the heaters)?
Click to expand...

Don't think so. The main cost would be the cabling and the additional cost of putting in a couple of heaters would be low in comparison. I do know that the ETS index of a Mk 1 BG was only 1, so not much current draw there!
 
eastwestdivide

eastwestdivide

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There were some vehicles fitted with through ETH wiring i.e. "through-wired" with no heating, notably GUV vans coded NJV, NJA (source: RCTS coaching stock book 1980, 1982). I've an idea the SR ones were used on Channel Islands and Southampton boat trains.
 
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ac6000cw

ac6000cw

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edwin_m said:
The coach was probably a Mk1 BG (Brake Gangwayed, sometimes known as a full brake). Many of these were retrofitted with electric train heat and air brakes so they could run with later Mk2 and Mk3 stock which was similarly fitted. For example practically every West Coast Mk3 set included a Mk1 BG until the Driving Van Trailers replaced them, because only a handful of Mk3 brake coaches were ever built.

For similar reasons you would often see Mk1 catering vehicles in Mk2 and Mk3 sets. No Mk2 catering coaches were built (some were converted later) and the Mk3 loco-hauled buffets were several years later than the saloons.
Click to expand...

The BGs in WCML Mk3 sets were also upgraded for 110 mph operation (B4 bogies with special maintenance) with the class 90s. Not sure if this ever happened for the catering vehicles.
 
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kermit

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Thanks again for the info!

I never knew about the 110mph certified Mk 1s
 
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edwin_m

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ac6000cw said:
The BGs in WCML Mk3 sets were also upgraded for 110 mph operation (B4 bogies with special maintenance) with the class 90s. Not sure if this ever happened for the catering vehicles.
Click to expand...

Indeed, though I think it was 87s originally. The 90s came along later, at about the same time as the DVTs.
 
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