Questions about driving trains.

cerbere22 · 19 Aug 2014

Hi,

Thanks a lot for all the technical details, as a simmer I try to collect as much information as possible to enhance my simulation experience.
Some people talked about driving techniques for Pacers, Modern DMU... but do you have driving tips for HST or any locos ?

Thank you very much

RailUK Forums

Nic nic · 19 Aug 2014

Ok this one has been said about a bit on this forum but i still have no idea what people mean by this... What is the ying ying noise people talk about in a class 66?

Domh245 · 19 Aug 2014

When a class 66 is idling or coasting (the engine is at 'idle' RPMs) it makes a "ying ying" noise.

455driver · 19 Aug 2014

Which I think is caused by the gears that drive the turbo when there is insufficient exhaust pressure.

Ash Bridge · 19 Aug 2014

Just got me thinking, having never heard a Class 59 in operation,do they also make the ying ying sound? Never noticed it on 67s.

Jamesb1974 · 20 Aug 2014

455driver said:
Which I think is caused by the gears that drive the turbo when there is insufficient exhaust pressure.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation. Funnily enough, they never told us why it made the noise during our class 66 training

and concentrated on how it worked!

For those not in the know, the turbo on a class 66 is actually a hybrid turbo-supercharger. Below notch 8, it works like a supercharger (ie, is driven by gears directly from the engine as their is insufficient exhaust gas pressure to turn the turbo).

On engaging notch 8, the gears disengage by means of a clutch mechanism and the turbo becomes a 'true' turbo, ie it is driven by exhaust gas pressure in order to force feed the engine with intake air and create more power.

So 455 Driver's explanation does seem a reasonable one to me.

455driver · 20 Aug 2014

Notch 8 before the gears disengage fu fu fullipin heck, I thought it would have been about notch 3 or something!
How many notches do 66s have?

JoeGJ1984 · 20 Aug 2014

Looked at videos here and here and it seems very misleading by the handsignaller. That seems to be a SPAD waiting to happen. Seems to me like giving the OK at a red signal seems much like a guard giving the OK to go at a red signal (which is an operating incident by the guard).

What's the situation on this now? What do drivers think?

GB · 20 Aug 2014

455driver said:
notch 8 before the gears disengage fu fu fullipin heck, i thought it would have been about notch 3 or something!
How many notches do 66s have?

....8....

driver9000 · 20 Aug 2014

JoeGJ1984 said:
Looked at videos here and here and it seems very misleading by the handsignaller. That seems to be a SPAD waiting to happen. Seems to me like giving the OK at a red signal seems much like a guard giving the OK to go at a red signal (which is an operating incident by the guard).

What's the situation on this now? What do drivers think?

In the first film the handsignaller is showing a green handsignal (assuming you mean the part with the Electrostar and LC). A green handsignal is not authority to pass a signal at danger. All the green flag indicates is that the crossing is safe to be passed, to pass the signal the driver would contact the box first for that authority. It's not misleading but yes mistakes can happen and a distracted driver could in error take the green flag as authority to pass the signal. It's all about being aware of the situation you're in and which rules to apply to the different stages you're presented with.

The second film is a classic example of poor communications by both parties. These incidents have happened from time to time, rarely, and these films are intended to show staff how easy it is to fall into these traps. Both are films I've been shown at work. In both films it highlights just how important communication is in our job and the potential consequences of not coming to a clear understanding - if you don't know, don't go.

455driver · 20 Aug 2014

GB said:
....8....

I am surprised they dont wear the gears out. :lol:

Nic nic · 22 Aug 2014

Ok as you guys can probably tell I am not in the industry but I deal with containers on a day to day basis. When I overload a container truck it is relatively easy to correct the mistake (keep truck on weighbridge and unload untill desired weight is achieved) I am taking a wild guess that freight wagons must keep to a weight limit aswell. So if one is overweight how do you guys deal with the problem? Also would be interested in knowing how aggregates are loaded aswell, I know how waste is done because that is what I load the containers with

455driver · 24 Aug 2014

Nic nic said:
Ok as you guys can probably tell I am not in the industry but I deal with containers on a day to day basis. When I overload a container truck it is relatively easy to correct the mistake (keep truck on weighbridge and unload until desired weight is achieved) I am taking a wild guess that freight wagons must keep to a weight limit as well. So if one is overweight how do you guys deal with the problem? Also would be interested in knowing how aggregates are loaded aswell, I know how waste is done because that is what I load the containers with

Most container flats have their suspension set as if all containers carried are at maximum weight so it is (virtually) impossible to overload the wagon. Each container also has a maximum gross weight which is used in these calculations.

Aggregate wagons are designed so they are within the weight limits when loaded to maximum capacity.
Basic answer-
Each commodity has a known volume per tonne so when National Power got into coal (which is relatively light) transport their wagons were designed so they would be just under maximum axle loading when they were full, if these wagons were then used for stone they would have been seriously overloaded. The coal wagons were a lot longer and had 4 unloading doors underneath compared to the shorter stone hoppers which had 3.
As each wagon is designed for a specific commodity then overloading shouldnt happen.

asylumxl · 24 Aug 2014

Jamesb1974 said:
For those not in the know, the turbo on a class 66 is actually a hybrid turbo-supercharger.

Would it be fair to say they use turbo-compound engines?

Nic nic · 25 Aug 2014

455driver said:
Most container flats have their suspension set as if all containers carried are at maximum weight so it is (virtually) impossible to overload the wagon. Each container also has a maximum gross weight which is used in these calculations.

Aggregate wagons are designed so they are within the weight limits when loaded to maximum capacity.
Basic answer-
Each commodity has a known volume per tonne so when National Power got into coal (which is relatively light) transport their wagons were designed so they would be just under maximum axle loading when they were full, if these wagons were then used for stone they would have been seriously overloaded. The coal wagons were a lot longer and had 4 unloading doors underneath compared to the shorter stone hoppers which had 3.
As each wagon is designed for a specific commodity then overloading shouldnt happen.

Thanks 455 sounds like it is a well planned process

Jamesb1974 · 25 Aug 2014

asylumxl said:
Would it be fair to say they use turbo-compound engines?

From reading the Wiki link, I would say not. This probably explains it better;

Turbochargers are also employed in certain two-stroke cycle Diesel engines, which would normally require a Roots blower for aspiration. In this specific application, mainly Electro-Motive Diesel (EMD) 567, 645, and 710 Series engines, the turbocharger is initially driven by the engine's crankshaft through a gear train and an overrunning clutch, thereby providing aspiration for combustion. After combustion has been achieved, and after the exhaust gases have reached sufficient heat energy, the overrunning clutch is automatically disengaged, and the turbo-compressor is thereafter driven exclusively by the exhaust gases. In the EMD application, the turbocharger acts as a compressor for normal aspiration during starting and low power output settings and is used for true turbocharging during medium and high power output settings. This is particularly beneficial at high altitudes, as are often encountered on western U.S. railroads. It is possible for the turbocharger to revert to compressor mode momentarily during commands for large increases in engine power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

Quote is near the bottom of the page.

carriageline · 26 Aug 2014

My driving colleagues, I have a question for you.

What is a 'lifeguard' on/under a train, and what is it's purpose?I was taught it, but never having to use it seems like I have forgotten! I seem to remember it being something infront of the wheels to deflect things on track? But I may be wrong!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Minilad · 26 Aug 2014

Yes thats right. Its basically a structure just in front of the leading wheels that deflects objects away before the wheel comes into contact with them

ChrisTheRef · 27 Aug 2014

Driving colleagues, I currently sign 315s, 317s and 379s. I'm moving TOC and will sign 185s. I have to do a full traction course.

Having never driven diesels before, is there anything particularly daunting or different which I need to be aware of? TIA

455driver · 27 Aug 2014

ChrisTheRef said:
Driving colleagues, I currently sign 315s, 317s and 379s. I'm moving TOC and will sign 185s. I have to do a full traction course.

Having never driven diesels before, is there anything particularly daunting or different which I need to be aware of? TIA

One thing to remember is that you will need to start the engines!
It might sound silly but as you are used to electrics which you just jump in, key on and go, it is easy to forget that diesels need starting up, ask my mate at Exeter, he forgot one day and wondered why the signal hadnt cleared, the dispatcher asked him if there was a problem, no replied my mate and the dispatcher asked why he hadnt started the engines, cue one rather red face as he pressed the engine start button and the dispatcher went to press the TRTS! :lol:

physics34 · 27 Aug 2014

ChrisTheRef said:
Driving colleagues, I currently sign 315s, 317s and 379s. I'm moving TOC and will sign 185s. I have to do a full traction course.

Having never driven diesels before, is there anything particularly daunting or different which I need to be aware of? TIA

I drive 171s, 377s and 455s....... not much difference in driving DMUs except our diesels have 7 notch power handle.... not too sure if this is commonplace amongst other DMUs though.

And obviously basics about engines etc. Frequently have to isolate engines that have failed.

Dieseldriver · 30 Aug 2014

You can't commit the cardinal sin of gapping...

Metobusfan · 7 Sep 2014

CCF23 said:
I drive London Underground trains, so if anyone has any questions regarding LU driving, fire away

How many notches does a LU train have

notadriver · 10 Sep 2014

Metobusfan said:
How many notches does a LU train have

Which type of LU train ? Anything post 1992 stock seems to have a fully variable notchless controller attached to the end of the drivers chair. Older stock such as D stock will have shunt, series and parallel. I'm not sure how weak field is selected.

PermitToTravel · 10 Sep 2014

notadriver said:
i'm not sure how weak field is selected.

There's a flag switch - see the yellow/black flag in the offside window of the train shown. When it's raised, the motor weak field is enabled. It's designed like this so as to make it visible from outside the train, allowing managers to check with a glance whether any trains have weak field enabled in the tunnel sections.

swt_passenger · 10 Sep 2014

Dieseldriver said:
You can't commit the cardinal sin of gapping...

I suggest the closest equivalent is leaving the depot with an empty tank?

O L Leigh · 11 Sep 2014

ChrisTheRef said:
Driving colleagues, I currently sign 315s, 317s and 379s. I'm moving TOC and will sign 185s. I have to do a full traction course.

Having never driven diesels before, is there anything particularly daunting or different which I need to be aware of? TIA

Make sure you get a good instructor because these DMUs are very different beasts to EMUs. I went from the same traction card as you to Cl170s and I still don't fully understand them. I think my instructor imagined that I had previous diesel experience and assumed that there were things I already knew about their design, systems and operation. I found that there was a lot that I had to unlearn before I could grasp some of the things I needed to know so don't try look for common features to help you understand.

I have no knowledge about Cl185s but I imagine they are somewhat more driver friendly than Cl170s. As I understand it they have a TMS system just as Cl379s do, so if you get a fault it should tell you precisely what's going on. Cl170s were designed to be compatible with earlier Sprinter classes so don't have this facility which can make fault-finding a bit of a hit or miss affair. There are also one or two rules that you need to be aware of that you don't with EMUs, such as what happens if a TCA fails.

Good luck!!

O L Leigh

Welshman · 11 Sep 2014

All right - I'll bite:-

What's a TCA?

[Wiki suggests True Cost Accounting, the Thyroid Cancer Alliance or the Taiwanese Cultural Association [amongst other things]].

None of which seem quite right.

evoluzione · 11 Sep 2014

Welshman said:
All right - I'll bite:-

What's a TCA?

[Wiki suggests True Cost Accounting, the Thyroid Cancer Alliance or the Taiwanese Cultural Association [amongst other things]].

None of which seem quite right.

Track Circuit Actuator

driver9000 · 11 Sep 2014

Welshman said:
All right - I'll bite:-

What's a TCA?

[Wiki suggests True Cost Accounting, the Thyroid Cancer Alliance or the Taiwanese Cultural Association [amongst other things]].

None of which seem quite right.

Track Circuit Actuator. A device fitted under the leading bogie of some multiple units to help it occupy track circuits.

Questions about driving trains.

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