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Govia get Thameslink Franchise

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theageofthetra

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Hey given that these franchises are predominantly in the Southeast couldn't they brand it along those lines, give it say a red, white & blue colour scheme? Oh hang on...
 
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JaJaWa

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The new 387s wear a different Southern livery (with only dark green).
 

21C101

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The new 387s wear a different Southern livery (with only dark green).

Copyright Richard Edward Lloyd Maunsell....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm trying to work out if you being serious or not with this idea?

Apart from the bulleid pacifics on all waterloo Exeter services yes. Especially the proper buffets serving freshley cooked toasted bacon sandwiches like the 4-BIGs used to up to the early '90s. I'm not holding out much hope though.
 

jon0844

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The TL route is probably going to be a nightmare right up to 2018, although hopefully the 700s being Siemens and not Bombardier might cause less problems when introduced (but that's not guaranteed). It makes sense to 'protect' the Southern brand and reputation and not get tarnished by a route that would give any operator nightmares.

The GN side should be quite straight forward though, unless there are any big engineering projects coming up. I recall a year or two under FCC where the OHLE works meant many months of weekend bus replacements. Very annoying when me and the wife had seasons and free weekend travel that we couldn't properly enjoy (bus to London? No thanks).
 

swt_passenger

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The new 387s wear a different Southern livery (with only dark green).

Or it isn't completed in the few photos seen so far.

This has happened before hasn't it? The livery is a mix of painted panels and vinyls, and moving trains around takes priority over finishing the livery. The 387 pictured isn't even the same on both sides.

Nothing to see here...
 

Metobusfan

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i think there would be demand for an hourly brighton/gatwick to milton keynes fast (fast from East croydon to clapham), and a half hourly East Croydon to Shepherds Bush or Watford stopper (all stns).

These fast points at the london end of WWC would deem the points at the london end of Balham redundant and at least the 'flashing yellow' system could be implemented so that the points can be crossed at 50mph or more.

Yes the crossing over of lines could cause performance risk but at least there is less chance of this than having the 25mph points at balham and like i said they would have uses in other scenarios.


So the lights would flash like on plat 1 at elephant and castle
 

Class377/5

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Or it isn't completed in the few photos seen so far.

This has happened before hasn't it? The livery is a mix of painted panels and vinyls, and moving trains around takes priority over finishing the livery. The 387 pictured isn't even the same on both sides.

Nothing to see here...

We already know its a different livery as its got strips under the window.

Apart from the bulleid pacifics on all waterloo Exeter services yes. Especially the proper buffets serving freshley cooked toasted bacon sandwiches like the 4-BIGs used to up to the early '90s. I'm not holding out much hope though.

Id give up now as your idea would seriously reduce capacity.
 

swt_passenger

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We already know its a different livery as its got strips under the window.

I didn't actually say it was the same. I said it wasn't likely to be complete; with the intended implication that any detailed critique is meaningless at this stage...
 

21C101

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Am I imagining things or were the points north of Balham installed or upgraded by BR in the '80s for the expresss purpose of allowing the Brighton to Manchester service to cross from fast to slow there, rather than running slowline from Croydon?
 

ModernRailways

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The new 387s wear a different Southern livery (with only dark green).

Aren't they going onto Thameslink before going on to Southern and other TOCs? If so, then they won't be wasting the paint and will just keep it white and stick the Thameslink logo on the side. It will also make it considerably easier to repaint/rebrand when they move to their full time TOC.

Why would they be painting a Thameslink train into Southern colours, and all 29(?) aren't even going to Southern at the end so it would be a pointless exercise and complete waste of money.

All that will be added is the new Thameslink logo and then bob's your uncle. But no, everyone can read into it way more than they should and expect some hidden strategy.
 
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JaJaWa

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Aren't they going onto Thameslink before going on to Southern and other TOCs? If so, then they won't be wasting the paint and will just keep it white and stick the Thameslink logo on the side. It will also make it considerably easier to repaint/rebrand when they move to their full time TOC.

Why would they be painting a Thameslink train into Southern colours, and all 29(?) aren't even going to Southern at the end so it would be a pointless exercise and complete waste of money.

All that will be added is the new Thameslink logo and then bob's your uncle. But no, everyone can read into it way more than they should and expect some hidden strategy.

There are images floating round of the 387s with dark green stripes... I don't really understand it either.
 

Abpj17

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Why would they be painting a Thameslink train into Southern colours, and all 29(?) aren't even going to Southern at the end so it would be a pointless exercise and complete waste of money.

Because the FCC trains are in First Group colours? (Albeit, may not paint into Southern colours, but there is a case for replacing the FCC colours)
 

physics34

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the livery situation just seems odd now though. the interm TSGN livery which is being applied to 319s now seems pointless, if 387s are going to be running around in another interim livery.

Why arnt these 319s being painted into white with green doors and green lines under the windows like this 387 have been?!

And is the 'TSGN' livery confirmed as the livery the 700s are going to wear? (obviously the first one is in this livery currently)..
 
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ModernRailways

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Because the FCC trains are in First Group colours? (Albeit, may not paint into Southern colours, but there is a case for replacing the FCC colours)

What? FCC trains are of course going to be in First clolurs? There is no reason for them not to be, they are still part of the First Group franchise until September! When the 387s are introduced First Group will no longer be operating the services.

And, the 319s, 365s etc. won't be painted into Southern colours as they aren't operating for Southern, they are operating Thameslink and Great Northern respectively.

the livery situation just seems odd now though. the interm TSGN livery which is being applied to 319s now seems pointless, if 387s are going to be running around in another interim livery.

Why arnt these 319s being painted into white with green doors and green lines under the windows like this 387 have been?!

And is the 'TSGN' livery confirmed as the livery the 700s are going to wear? (obviously the first one is in this livery currently)..

They are the same livery with the exception of the door colour. And from when I was invited to take a trip around Derby Bombardier the doors appeared to be delivered in green so surely it's more cost effective to have added the doors in with the new 377 build and then use the same doors in green. The green line underneath could be for anything, and from images I've seen it looks to be black.

I imagine the livery will eventually be changed as their life goes on but for the first year or so the chances are they will wear the TSGN livery.
 

physics34

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Nah those 319s in tsgn livery are in a grey colour, and the 387s are white

The green line on the 387 is green! Look at the high definition pics.
 
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Abpj17

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What? FCC trains are of course going to be in First clolurs? There is no reason for them not to be, they are still part of the First Group franchise until September! When the 387s are introduced First Group will no longer be operating the services.

And, the 319s, 365s etc. won't be painted into Southern colours as they aren't operating for Southern, they are operating Thameslink and Great Northern respectively.

Which is what I said. There is no reason to paint them into Southern. But Govia may consider painting then away from their current colour scheme (as they are First corporate logo colours) from 14 September. Unless the 387s come on line the 14th, there may be some painting...
 

ModernRailways

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Nah those 319s in tsgn livery are in a grey colour, and the 387s are white

The green line on the 387 is green! Look at the high definition pics.

The 319s are in a dirty white. I wouldn't expect a new train to be put into a dirty white colour scheme, the Class 700 going around is in white, just blue doors instead of green which is understandable since the 700s are destined for full time service on Thameslink whereas the 387s were destined for Southern and other TOCs but have been stuck on Thameslink for a year or so because of the Class 700 delays.

And do you have a link to any of those HD pics instead of just speaking about them? The green stripe - if there is one there - probably means that that specific unit will be destined for Southern and the other 387s may come out without that green stripe.

You're determined there is going to be some secret livery reveal aren't you. :p If there was it will be reserved for the 700s.

Which is what I said. There is no reason to paint them into Southern. But Govia may consider painting then away from their current colour scheme (as they are First corporate logo colours) from 14 September. Unless the 387s come on line the 14th, there may be some painting...

Ah, sorry I misunderstood. There is no way the 319s will be painted into Southern green, and I doubt they will be repainted, if they are it will be into a very basic colour scheme - the TSGN white livery most likely. They will stick the new logo on but that's more than likely it since the 387s should be in service around December, 2014, with the 700s taking over next December, 2015.
 

physics34

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The 319s are in a dirty white. I wouldn't expect a new train to be put into a dirty white colour scheme, the Class 700 going around is in white, just blue doors instead of green which is understandable since the 700s are destined for full time service on Thameslink whereas the 387s were destined for Southern and other TOCs but have been stuck on Thameslink for a year or so because of the Class 700 delays.

And do you have a link to any of those HD pics instead of just speaking about them? The green stripe - if there is one there - probably means that that specific unit will be destined for Southern and the other 387s may come out without that green stripe.

You're determined there is going to be some secret livery reveal aren't you. :p If there was it will be reserved for the 700s.



Ah, sorry I misunderstood. There is no way the 319s will be painted into Southern green, and I doubt they will be repainted, if they are it will be into a very basic colour scheme - the TSGN white livery most likely. They will stick the new logo on but that's more than likely it since the 387s should be in service around December, 2014, with the 700s taking over next December, 2015.

The original pics are on here of the 387 with the bit of a green stripe under some of the windows (or they are on the class 387 thread), if you click on them you have the option (on flickr) to view HD

Also if you look closely at the 700 that has been on test it IS in a greyish white, not just plain white. https://sparkyscrum.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/img_9645.jpg

Heres the 387 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesclag37518/15047814425/sizes/o/
 
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Fincra5

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I don't think either of the two liveries are actually finished yet... Southern won't be changing livery afaik, from what we've been told, as the brand is known. I doubt they will repaint all out 377s into a new livery for a long long time...
The 387 could be a test one for new TGSN liveries, but will probably be a basic one as the units may get moved on...

Whilst you're at it, the seats inside are also Green, like 377/5s...
 

physics34

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I don't think either of the two liveries are actually finished yet... Southern won't be changing livery afaik, from what we've been told, as the brand is known. I doubt they will repaint all out 377s into a new livery for a long long time...
The 387 could be a test one for new TGSN liveries, but will probably be a basic one as the units may get moved on...

Whilst you're at it, the seats inside are also Green, like 377/5s...

more of that bloody green sandpaper seat covering. Another mystery why that it used. It looks tattier than the usual fabrics after a while.

moan moan moan <D
 

Fincra5

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I would assume for cost reasons and that the Units are ordered by Southern but for use with TL... like the 377/5s
 

physics34

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I would assume for cost reasons and that the Units are ordered by Southern but for use with TL... like the 377/5s

yeh i guess its cost, but it looks tatty on the 377s not yet refreshed... im sure normal 'brushed' seat covers looks less tatty. Some of the original NSE seat covers must be 20 years old plus on the odd 321s and 319s.
 

Class377/5

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Few points

377/5 seats are green because they were supposed to have been returned to Southern by December 2013.

387/1 were ordered by Southern who simply chose to do a follow on order of four car 377/7 (properly cheaper) and added a Govia variant livery

700s & 319s TSGN livery was created by the DfT to allow the next bidder to easy apply its chosen livery.

As for the 700s being in white, remember they are on test just like the 387s so may not have the full livery, especially when you consider the 700 aren't in pure white but a mix of white cab and grey bodies like in this photo.

700101 on test track by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr
 

physics34

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Few points

377/5 seats are green because they were supposed to have been returned to Southern by December 2013.

387/1 were ordered by Southern who simply chose to do a follow on order of four car 377/7 (properly cheaper) and added a Govia variant livery

700s & 319s TSGN livery was created by the DfT to allow the next bidder to easy apply its chosen livery.

As for the 700s being in white, remember they are on test just like the 387s so may not have the full livery, especially when you consider the 700 aren't in pure white but a mix of white cab and grey bodies like in this photo.

700101 on test track by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr

hopefully the grey/blue stays in some form or another, with some extra bits and the TL branding of course itll look nice.

The 700s look nice in it although you know my thoughts on the interior etc, im not gonna bore you with that any more ;)
 
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drbdrb

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And are they going to update their credit card machines, so payments no longer appear as WAGN
 

bicbasher

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And are they going to update their credit card machines, so payments no longer appear as WAGN

I'm surprised they haven't been tweaked. On the first day of London Overground managing Forest Hill from Southern, all but one TVM had changed to "LONDON OVERGROUND" on bank statements.
 

21C101

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


hopefully the grey/blue stays in some form or another, with some extra bits and the TL branding of course itll look nice.

The 700s look nice in it although you know my thoughts on the interior etc, im not gonna bore you with that any more ;)

It looks to me that that would be a nice base for the final pre FCC livery which only made it onto a few trains. It was a blue grey white version of the southern livery

pic here http://onehouse.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=41936&start=30
 

JaJaWa

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hopefully the grey/blue stays in some form or another, with some extra bits and the TL branding of course itll look nice.

The 700s look nice in it although you know my thoughts on the interior etc, im not gonna bore you with that any more ;)

I don't think it will. They are branding Thameslink as pink and Great Northern blue.
 

Class377/5

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I don't think it will. They are branding Thameslink as pink and Great Northern blue.

Should be blue for Thameslink and purple for GN, both are more historically correct. However it seems its purple for Thameslink and blue for GN.
 

Electrostar

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Looking at Fincra5's pic of the Southern livery and the 700 base livery made me realise Southern could easily lend itself to Thameslink and WAGN albeit substituting the two shades of green for blue and pink. (Or a better colour than pink). The result: three distinct route brands with three different names but tied together under one family umbrella.
 
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