Being contactable

Clip · 18 Sep 2014

Going on from what Myself and Paul were just discussing with regards to the phones people have I have been noticing more and more just how contactable I am and just how much crap I have to carry round day to day.

2 phones, laptop,tablet(my choice), 2 chargers, notebook, diary, wallet 2 oysters, staff pass, staff ID, keys for both home and work. My pockets just cant cope and neither can my ever bulging bag(ffnar)

And this is why I dont like the onset of everyone wanting wifi everywhere now on the railway - yes it means people can do some work but isnt it nice just to be able to switch off and not be contactable for a little while?

I even have to turn off the email notifications on me Blackberry because its constantly going off and much prefer to read them when I get somewhere so I can have alittle time on the train to myself to read the paper or do the crossword.

Why do we need to be even more contactable now than we were before? Cant we just do away with the silly wifi on trains right now?

RailUK Forums

Oswyntail · 18 Sep 2014

There is a report in the Times today that French unions are suggesting making contacting employees outside working hours illegal; it also says that some firms in Germany are stopping their mail servers at 6pm.
Back in 1999, my employers asked why I rarely had my company mobile turned on. I replied I was either at my desk with a cheaper landline, driving, in a meeting, or (gasp) off duty. Much harumphing from the boss - and I was made redundant six months later.

AM9 · 18 Sep 2014

Clip said:
Going on from what Myself and Paul were just discussing with regards to the phones people have I have been noticing more and more just how contactable I am and just how much crap I have to carry round day to day.

2 phones, laptop,tablet(my choice), 2 chargers, notebook, diary, wallet 2 oysters, staff pass, staff ID, keys for both home and work. My pockets just cant cope and neither can my ever bulging bag(ffnar)

And this is why I dont like the onset of everyone wanting wifi everywhere now on the railway - yes it means people can do some work but isnt it nice just to be able to switch off and not be contactable for a little while?

I even have to turn off the email notifications on me Blackberry because its constantly going off and much prefer to read them when I get somewhere so I can have alittle time on the train to myself to read the paper or do the crossword.

Why do we need to be even more contactable now than we were before? Cant we just do away with the silly wifi on trains right now?

Not criticising you specifically, but why do people complain at services that are available when all they need to do is switch of their devices. All mobiles have caller ID and usually, facilities to set different ring tones (or even silence) for groups selected by the phone's owner. All laptops/tablets etc. can be switched off or even just have wi-fi disabled. You (everybody) are in control of who can access you (if you dare exercise this power).
It seems that the problem often lies with the employer/employee relationship rather than the devices and services they use.
If the complaint is that everybody else using their devices is irritating, then that just falls in the same category as loud voices, playing music, eating food, sniffing and sneezing, etc., 'twas always the same, become a hermit.

Xenophon PCDGS · 18 Sep 2014

Clip said:
I even have to turn off the email notifications on me Blackberry because its constantly going off and much prefer to read them when I get somewhere so I can have alittle time on the train to myself to read the paper or do the crossword.

Why do we need to be even more contactable now than we were before? Cant we just do away with the silly wifi on trains right now?

Glad to see that you have opened this new thread which does indeed cover the ever-intrusive social media that the manufacturers and providers of all these modern gadgets seem neurotic in their marketing of them. There is now a new generation that has grown up with such products being brainwashed into them as a normal part of life.

On this particular website and on the SSC website, I use the e-mail notification facility of once daily, which both websites use as 0100 hours as the release time for those e-mails under that choice made.

Noting what you say in your final paragraph, many of the bus companies now state that Wi-Fi is available on their vehicles. I travelled upon the X43 "Lancashire Witch" bus service with brand new "14- registered" vehicles from Burnley to Manchester very recently (that runs in competition with the "non-existent" Todmorden Chord rail service..

) and the "Wi-Fi" marketing message was clearly displayed in vinyl lettering on the vehicle windows.

edwin_m · 18 Sep 2014

Being able to do some work on a laptop is a major benefit of travelling by train for business. If I can do a couple of productive hours work on a journey then that allows me to justify using the train even if driving might on the face of it be cheaper. And if my travel time was unproductive then I would probably have to do the work in my own time instead.

Possibly instead of quiet coaches we should have business and leisure coaches. Laptops would be banned in the leisure coaches but business coaches would not allow noisy tourist/student/family groups or anyone playing music that is audible more than six inches away.

(tongue in cheek)

Clip · 18 Sep 2014

AM9 said:
Not criticising you specifically, but why do people complain at services that are available when all they need to do is switch of their devices. All mobiles have caller ID and usually, facilities to set different ring tones (or even silence) for groups selected by the phone's owner. All laptops/tablets etc. can be switched off or even just have wi-fi disabled. You (everybody) are in control of who can access you (if you dare exercise this power).
It seems that the problem often lies with the employer/employee relationship rather than the devices and services they use.
If the complaint is that everybody else using their devices is irritating, then that just falls in the same category as loud voices, playing music, eating food, sniffing and sneezing, etc., 'twas always the same, become a hermit.

I dont have the choice to turn off my work phone or else there would be hell on should there be disruption and I miss calls and texts. As I said I do however turn off the email alert as its none bloody stop.

Its not that I find it irritating more that travelling to/from work and working whilst doing so has become the norm now and the clamour for wifi on trains is getting a bit much. We seemed to manage only a few years ago but now people deem it necessary.

Tetchytyke · 18 Sep 2014

I like having wifi and a phone signal for leisure, I read the papers on my phone and so having enough wifi or 4G signal to download the content is good. I can live without it, but I don't see why there are any new trains coming out without plug sockets and wifi. It should just come as standard.

But the culture we're building of always being contactable is driving me mad. It's meaning that I'm starting to get emails at 11.30pm from clients demanding to know why I've not replied to their email sent at 5.15pm. "I've not replied because I'm at home with the missus watching telly, get back to me when I'm actually at work" doesn't seem to go down too well as an answer.

Greenback · 18 Sep 2014

Arctic Troll said:
I like having wifi and a phone signal for leisure, I read the papers on my phone and so having enough wifi or 4G signal to download the content is good. I can live without it, but I don't see why there are any new trains coming out without plug sockets and wifi. It should just come as standard.

Yes, it's not all about working. I think that when people have the information at their fingertips at home, it's a natural expectation that they should have the same facility when on the move.

To that end, I think it's two different things at play here. Firstly, how we may not want to be contacted by others, but secondly, that we still want to be in touch with what's going on (especially when on the train with regard to real time info!)

Arctic Troll said:
But the culture we're building of always being contactable is driving me mad. It's meaning that I'm starting to get emails at 11.30pm from clients demanding to know why I've not replied to their email sent at 5.15pm. "I've not replied because I'm at home with the missus watching telly, get back to me when I'm actually at work" doesn't seem to go down too well as an answer.

In my view, just because someone is contactable doesn't mean that they should be contacted or that there is an expectation that a reply should be forthcoming quickly. I've usually taken a while to reply to emails and texts, even when I had my own business, as I didn't want to raise expectations that this would always be the case.

Obviously there were some exceptions, but I felt it was useful to make it clear that I would aim to reply within 24 hours whenever I could, rather than as soon as I received a message.

D6975 · 18 Sep 2014

The only devices I routinely carry around with me are my phone, my ipod and the USB lead for the phone.
I don't carry any chargers because the ipod lasts ages on one charge and I can plug my phone into my PC at work to recharge it.

I have a usb plug that I take on hols for recharging the phone and ipod, but on hols I tend to leave my phone in the room during the day unless I know that I might be using GPS for finding somewhere.
As for answering it, I don't answer at all if it's not a recognised no. and dismiss it if it's someone I don't want to talk to.

SS4 · 18 Sep 2014

This is not a problem with technology but with the abuse thereof. Employers can get away with pushing into employee rest time and have enough power to coerce the employee into answering it. Similarly, employees may want to be available.

12CSVT · 18 Sep 2014

Clip said:
I dont have the choice to turn off my work phone or else there would be hell on should there be disruption and I miss calls and texts. As I said I do however turn off the email alert as its none bloody stop.

Its not that I find it irritating more that travelling to/from work and working whilst doing so has become the norm now and the clamour for wifi on trains is getting a bit much. We seemed to manage only a few years ago but now people deem it necessary.

Do you get paid to be 'on-call' ?

Maybe if employees were legally entitled to the national minimum wage for time on-call, it would make employers think twice about harassing staff outside their working hours.

hassaanhc · 18 Sep 2014

Clip said:
Its not that I find it irritating more that travelling to/from work and working whilst doing so has become the norm now and the clamour for wifi on trains is getting a bit much. We seemed to manage only a few years ago but now people deem it necessary.

If it isn't Wi-Fi then it is electrical sockets that are demanded, to charge said devices after they have run down the battery as they were using Wi-Fi too much...

SS4 · 18 Sep 2014

12CSVT said:
Do you get paid to be 'on-call' ?

Maybe if employees were legally entitled to the national minimum wage for time on-call, it would make employers think twice about harassing staff outside their working hours.

I was thinking of it resetting the rest period under the Working Time Act. Get an email at 11pm? No work until at least 10am for you.

Clip · 19 Sep 2014

12CSVT said:
Do you get paid to be 'on-call' ?

Maybe if employees were legally entitled to the national minimum wage for time on-call, it would make employers think twice about harassing staff outside their working hours.

When I am on call yes - part of the job. But even when I am at work they still need to get hold of me or else who else wouldnt be able to sort out no existant RRB when it goes wrong

Generally though I will miss calls if on the train going to/from a station if I need a break because I can always be speaking to a passenger

But on from this I have still yet to hear of a valid reason as to why people want wifi on the tube? WHY for heavens sake - you're not on there long enough for anything to make a difference. Theres no need. And as hassaanhc has poionted out the clamour for plug sockets now also with wifi.

Are people that unable to do something else then faff around with that stuff anymore? It really does seem that its all becoming an addiction that people cant give up.

I blame Apple.

Flamingo · 19 Sep 2014

I'm fairly sure that the provision of WiFi won't stop the complaining on trains - it'll just switch to complaints about it being too slow (as a few hundred other people will be using it)...

GatwickDepress · 19 Sep 2014

Flamingo said:
I'm fairly sure that the provision of WiFi won't stop the complaining on trains - it'll just switch to complaints about it being too slow (as a few hundred other people will be using it)...

And the person complaining the longest and loudest will be trying to stream Netflix in HD!

AM9 · 19 Sep 2014

GatwickDepress said:
And the person complaining the longest and loudest will be trying to stream Netflix in HD!

Even with 4G, with it's sparse coverage for years to come, the TOCs could offer a 2-tier service, i.e. free at a capped data rate that is adequate for e-mail and textual information (even if there is only 1 person logged on) and an hourly rate for those who are so desperate to view video that they are prepared to pay for it.
That would probably moderate demand.

Tetchytyke · 19 Sep 2014

Clip said:
But on from this I have still yet to hear of a valid reason as to why people want wifi on the tube? WHY for heavens sake - you're not on there long enough for anything to make a difference.

Most newspaper phone apps download content off wifi for you to read when there's no signal.

I used to be on the Northern Line for at least half an hour from North London to Islington. There's no room to read a paper on those trains, and I'd rather be reading something rather than staring right into someone's sweaty armpit.

Clip · 19 Sep 2014

Arctic Troll said:
Most newspaper phone apps download content off wifi for you to read when there's no signal.

I used to be on the Northern Line for at least half an hour from North London to Islington. There's no room to read a paper on those trains, and I'd rather be reading something rather than staring right into someone's sweaty armpit.

Yeah thats fine - so you dont need a wifi signal to do that whilst underground do you? I get mine to me tablet each morning - though still grab a paper copy too....

hassaanhc · 19 Sep 2014

Flamingo said:
I'm fairly sure that the provision of WiFi won't stop the complaining on trains - it'll just switch to complaints about it being too slow (as a few hundred other people will be using it)...

As appears to have happened with SWT!

sutty · 19 Sep 2014

My phone never comes off silent mode. It doesn't vibrate either. The only way of "buzzing" me is to "ping" me on BBM and that's saved for times when a message needs reading right the heck now. Just be disciplined. Set up your caller ID groups an people will learn that you're not on the end of a summons device.

My phone has been this way for years. I got bored of being always contactable after two years of having a phone back in the 90's

Strathclyder · 19 Sep 2014

I always keep my phone on silent. It does vibrate when a call or text comes in, but that's it.

Tetchytyke · 19 Sep 2014

Clip said:
so you dont need a wifi signal to do that

You do where the phone signal is rubbish *looks at Highgate*

Clip · 19 Sep 2014

sutty said:
My phone never comes off silent mode. It doesn't vibrate either. The only way of "buzzing" me is to "ping" me on BBM and that's saved for times when a message needs reading right the heck now. Just be disciplined. Set up your caller ID groups an people will learn that you're not on the end of a summons device.

Again cant do this. Given most of work is on an exchange anyway and it comes through mostly as private number then its either answer or let go to voicemail.

My personal phone however is on silent most of the day, just so the missus thinks im too busy to talk

DynamicSpirit · 20 Sep 2014

Clip said:
But on from this I have still yet to hear of a valid reason as to why people want wifi on the tube? WHY for heavens sake - you're not on there long enough for anything to make a difference. Theres no need. And as hassaanhc has poionted out the clamour for plug sockets now also with wifi.

One possible reason is to be able to check the status of connecting services (NR live departure boards/TfL tube disruption/bus departure times etc.). I've quite often been on a tube train for half an hour or so - easily long enough to make it worth re-checking near the end of the journey, even if you checked just before you got on.

Clip · 20 Sep 2014

DynamicSpirit said:
One possible reason is to be able to check the status of connecting services (NR live departure boards/TfL tube disruption/bus departure times etc.). I've quite often been on a tube train for half an hour or so - easily long enough to make it worth re-checking near the end of the journey, even if you checked just before you got on.

And how is checking the departure boards going to help you?
You have a watch or at least a clock on your phone.
You know what time your train is to depart.
You know if you are going to miss it or not.
You would've left enough time for a connection if you didn't have a flexible ticket.

So how is checking the live departure boards going to help you?What purpose does it really serve? None. It wont make the tube go faster to get you there,it wont make the train wait for you till you get there so what purpose does checking the live deptarture boards serve?

None.

sutty · 20 Sep 2014

Clip said:
Again cant do this. Given most of work is on an exchange anyway and it comes through mostly as private number then its either answer or let go to voicemail.

My personal phone however is on silent most of the day, just so the missus thinks im too busy to talk

My work phone is on vibrate, never ring mode. I'm genuinely too busy to talk most of the time!

Tom B · 20 Sep 2014

I have an app for my phone which allows you to specify rules for incoming calls depending on the CLI passed to it. Any calls from a withheld number the phone will clear down without ringing. Stops pesky PPI marketers too. If somebody is calling from behind a PABX which withholds their number, tough!

tsr · 20 Sep 2014

I do like to view the latest travel updates and a few topical forum posts, news articles etc. to keep me informed just before starting work, but there's a long tunnel (or two) on most of my current commutes which can provide moments of peace! However, I'll often be happy to totally "switch off" on the way home, other than a quick text ahead if I'm very early or late back. There's nothing wrong with having a look at what's going on in your local area through your train window!

I'm not tremendously fussed by on-train wifi and 4G, as I don't use either all that much even when they are available. The only benefit for me is speed, rather than anything to do with cost (I don't usually download anything close to my limit in the way of data anyway) or convenience (the more I connect to wifi, the more it drains batteries!). I think I would be more interested if I commuted through a very remote area and there was special infrastructure, though. I certainly don't feel that wifi makes me any more or less contactable in any discernible way.

As for my phone... yup, it's on silent most of the time, except if I am expecting an emergency/urgent call from work or a close friend/relative. Facebook is used rarely, but Twitter a lot just for bitesize information convenience. My iPod is different because I only use it for music and the alarm clock 95% of the time.

DynamicSpirit · 21 Sep 2014

Clip said:
And how is checking the departure boards going to help you?
You have a watch or at least a clock on your phone.
You know what time your train is to depart.
You know if you are going to miss it or not.
You would've left enough time for a connection if you didn't have a flexible ticket.

On the contrary, being able to check departure times (on national rail, - so I can use my phone) has often been very useful to me. For example, when I'm travelling home in the evening, there are two possible stations I can get off the train to catch a connecting bus (a different bus for each station). Checking bus arrival times (which are not really predictable) a few minutes before my train gets to the first of those stations tells me which station I should get off at to get home quickest.

A similar example - if I'm travelling into central London, then checking for disruption on the tube a few minutes before I get to London Bridge can tell me whether I need to change my intended route within London (eg. whether I should change to the Northern or Jubilee line at London Bridge, or stay on national rail to Charing Cross).

I could cite other examples - the common theme though tends to be that, if there are multiple ways to get to your destination (which on the tube, is extremely common), then being able to check departure boards en route can guide you to the best route in the light of actual service statuses and possible train delays.

Being contactable

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