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The infamous 1915 from Paddington (police called to handle situation on 18th Sept)

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broadgage

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I can never understand why passengers continue to force themselves onto what is obviously an overcrowded train and then complain it's unsafe and dangerous. Why not simply wait for the next one?

First Class is and should be for First Class passengers only. You can't start declassifying every peak train because the first carriage that everyone will head for is the First Class one. If you want to sit in First pay the appropriate fare.

Good on the train manager in this instance although I suspect there's more to this story than is being reported. I can't see the passenger politely refusing to leave can you?!

Because they may have advance purchase tickets and therefore be liable to a large "fine" if not on the booked service.
Also perhaps a fear that the next train might be even worse, or not run at all.

I would agree though that first should not be routinely declassified on busy trains, I for one pay the first class fare on trains that I suspect will be busy in order to avoid the overcrowded bit.

If a service is regularly overcrowded, then ideally it should be lengthened or an additional train be provided shortly before or shortly after the busy one. If this can not be done, then at least matters could be slightly relieved by not selling ANY discounted tickets for that service, full fare only.

I have long thought it daft that last minute travel on a near empty train requires payment of the highest fare, and that discounted tickets are available at a LOWER advance fare for very busy services.
 
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westie1

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Which causes delays and very unhappy customers.

If there is "not much FGW can do about it", why is the train pick-up only at Reading and doesn't call at Didcot on Fridays? It needs them to go further: the current Friday timings should apply on other days, and on Fridays it should be non-stop Swindon or possibly even Bristol Parkway. There are other trains people to Swindon can get, such as the 1930 train.

When I travelled, the 1915 delayed various trains behind it, and last night the 1915 had to be stopped at Reading for 13 minutes so the 1930 overtook it anyway!

TMs have provided feedback to management who refuse to address the situation. I therefore conclude FGW management is incompetent, unless someone from FGW can state that they have tried to implement such changes but were over-ruled by the DfT?

What about passengers from Reading, or connecting through Reading (it's a major hub after all), and those from Swindon wishing to get to South West Wales?

If you run the 1915 fast to Bristol Parkway then there would be a 90 minute gap between the 1845 and 2015 services to stations beyond Cardiff.

Removing stops isn't the answer. It fails to consider those who wish to board at the intermediate stations.

The answer is greater capacity. That is being addressed as best it can be with the current rolling stock being rejigged to provide more Standard Class seating, and will be further addressed with the introduction of the IEP trains.

And yes, removal of stops would require intervention from the DfT. Service Level Commitment would need re-writing. Your conclusion that the FGW management is incompetent is very wide of the mark.

They are constrained by capacity, rolling stock (and no, there isn't anything spare to run a relief service) and the SLC.
 

Greenback

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Which causes delays and very unhappy customers.

If there is "not much FGW can do about it", why is the train pick-up only at Reading and doesn't call at Didcot on Fridays? It needs them to go further: the current Friday timings should apply on other days, and on Fridays it should be non-stop Swindon or possibly even Bristol Parkway. There are other trains people to Swindon can get, such as the 1930 train.

Absolutely right. FGW's approach of doing nothing and leaving it all to the TM is quite poor. They are well aware of the problems with this service.

When I travelled, the 1915 delayed various trains behind it, and last night the 1915 had to be stopped at Reading for 13 minutes so the 1930 overtook it anyway!

TMs have provided feedback to management who refuse to address the situation. I therefore conclude FGW management is incompetent, unless someone from FGW can state that they have tried to implement such changes but were over-ruled by the DfT?

It would be very interesting to know what has happened internally, and who is ultimately responsible for the 'do nothing' decision.
 

OLJR

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Both FGW and DafT are at fault here.

I note that in the picture posted in the OP there are no seat reservation tags, which means that passengers are travelling on either season tickets or open tickets rather than Advances. Accordingly reducing Advance availability may not be an option.

What the operators should do is increase the price of STD season tickets and open tickets valid for travel on the busiest trains until these trains are no longer overcrowded. Then no problem!
 
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Greenback

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There are a number of steps that FGW could take, but as far as we know, nothing of any substance has happened. Maybe, as Yorkie mentioned, DfT has overruled them on some initiatives, and as westie1 says, the SLC is also a factor.

However, I'm not convinced that FGW has even tried to do all that it can. When I lived in Reading, there were some times throughout the day when a change was required to get to Swansea. While I tried to avoid those services as much as I could as I preferred a direct train it was possible and was something I had to do on a few occasions. It wasn't the end of the world.
 

CC 72100

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I note that in the picture posted in the OP there are no seat reservation tags, which means that passengers are travelling on either season tickets or open tickets rather than Advances. Accordingly reducing Advance availability may not be an option.

FGW always leave coach E and coach F (if the train has one) unreserved - the photo could also have been taken in either of those coaches where there wouldn't be a reservation slip in sight.
 

nottsnurse

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Mind you the service i got from EMT was very sub substandard i could elaborate if asked.;)

To add a bit of balance, I travel with EMT nearly every day between Nottingham and Leicester and usually get the 2025 train back, which is often very busy on arrival at Leicester. I've been offered a seat in FC on numerous occasions when the service has been full and find their overall customer service excellent.

I can only help but feel sorry though for the Cross Country trains passengers who pile onto the dirty and often crush loaded services that depart platform 2 whilst I await my connection.
 

WelshBluebird

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FGW always leave coach E and coach F (if the train has one) unreserved - the photo could also have been taken in either of those coaches where there wouldn't be a reservation slip in sight.

Or the reservation slips may have simply not been put out on that service due to a printer fault or a tight turnaround time.
 

Greenback

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It's entirely possible that the train was unreserved. It's also possible that it is a photo of an unreserved coach.

Either way, some of FGW's service are notorious for overcrowding!
 

westie1

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At the time of evening under discussion all services go through to Swansea, with one onward to Carmarthan. That's all services, every half hour ex Paddington, from 1545 to 1915. Then it's 2015, 2115, 2245. The last service of the day at 2330 travels via Bristol TM and terminates at Cardiff.

Remove the calls from Reading and Swindon on the 1915 and those stations have a huge gap with nothing between 1845 and 2015 to Bristol Parkway, Cardiff and beyond. A connection at Swindon for a service to Kemble, Stroud, Stonehouse, Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa would also be lost.

Much criticism of FGW, but no practical and achievable suggestions forthcoming. What are the number of steps that FGW could take?
 

CC 72100

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Make it pick-up only at Reading and actually enforce it?

(I'm just assuming that there is a reasonable percentage of 'short distance' passengers on the train)
 

Greenback

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At the time of evening under discussion all services go through to Swansea, with one onward to Carmarthan. That's all services, every half hour ex Paddington, from 1545 to 1915. Then it's 2015, 2115, 2245. The last service of the day at 2330 travels via Bristol TM and terminates at Cardiff.

Remove the calls from Reading and Swindon on the 1915 and those stations have a huge gap with nothing between 1845 and 2015 to Bristol Parkway, Cardiff and beyond. A connection at Swindon for a service to Kemble, Stroud, Stonehouse, Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa would also be lost.

The call at Reading should be eliminated. A call at Swindon should be retained for that particular service. The timetable could be recast to allow for different calling patterns to those in operation at the moment.

Much criticism of FGW, but no practical and achievable suggestions forthcoming. What are the number of steps that FGW could take?

The only criticism aimed at FGW has ben for their apparent inaction. As I said, I'd like to see what they have actually considered doing and who made the decision not to do it. The reasons why might be illuminating too.

There have been plenty of suggestions here on how overcrowding might be alleviated, from actually enforcing the pick up only on Fridays at Reading, and extending to every weekday, to offering further incentives to passengers to travel on other trains to balance the loads better.

I'm not convinced that FGW are too concerned with the situation, and are happy to let on train staff deal with it, but I am happy to be corrected if you can show me something concrete to show the opposite.
 

vicbury

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Both FGW and DafT are at fault here.

I note that in the picture posted in the OP there are no seat reservation tags, which means that passengers are travelling on either season tickets or open tickets rather than Advances. Accordingly reducing Advance availability may not be an option.

What the operators should do is increase the price of STD season tickets and open tickets valid for travel on the busiest trains until these trains are no longer overcrowded. Then no problem!

I believe, from the chain of tweets, that the reservation tags were missing!
 

richw

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The time shows as "8:21 PM" to me.

Could it have been the infamous 1915 Paddington - Swansea? FGW are well aware of severe overcrowding on this train (especially on Fridays, when the crowds have to be seen to be believed) but nothing is ever done about it.

It was the infamous 1915 paddington to Swansea. But it wasn't Friday night, it was Thursday. Imagine tonight (Friday) being worse.
 

yorkie

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What about passengers from Reading, or connecting through Reading (it's a major hub after all), and those from Swindon wishing to get to South West Wales?
What about them? At present, on busy days, they think they can get a train but in reality the train arrives late, they are unable to board. they get a later train, which is delayed die to the knock on wffect of previous delays due to the 1915 suffering severe overcrowding.
If you run the 1915 fast to Bristol Parkway then there would be a 90 minute gap between the 1845 and 2015 services to stations beyond Cardiff.

Removing stops isn't the answer. It fails to consider those who wish to board at the intermediate stations.

The answer is greater capacity. That is being addressed as best it can be with the current rolling stock being rejigged to provide more Standard Class seating, and will be further addressed with the introduction of the IEP trains.

And yes, removal of stops would require intervention from the DfT. Service Level Commitment would need re-writing. Your conclusion that the FGW management is incompetent is very wide of the mark.

They are constrained by capacity, rolling stock (and no, there isn't anything spare to run a relief service) and the SLC.
A TM told me that they were told there wasn't a path, but whatever, until a relief runs, the train should be nonstop to at least Swindon on busy days.
 

Flamingo

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I know that a lot of thought has gone in to the 19.15. Advance tickets are not sold for it (we have been told), and a plan to run two trains around that time was stymied by the lack of paths - it had gone as far as allocating staff in the link, so for six months the staff were being rostered to work a train that didn't exist.

All the other arguments have already been covered in the thread - but I know that every evening train I work unless there is major disruption, there are people going to Reading in First Class on Std tickets claiming there is no room, and further up the train there will be seats, and standing room, and when these are pointed out, the answer invariably is "I'll stand, I'm only going one stop".

The victim culture is too ingrained - I had somebody write in a while ago that I moved him to a "dangerously overcrowded standard class". I had 116 empty seats on that train, and made numerous announcements to this effect before checking tickets.

The only thing that could be done and would make a difference is to put the RPI heavy mob on the train, issuing PF's to everybody going to Reading and Didcot. But that would upset voters, sorry, I mean passengers.
 
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455driver

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It's entirely possible that the train was unreserved. It's also possible that it is a photo of an unreserved coach.

Either way, some of FGW's service are notorious for overcrowding!

Thats not crowded, you should try some of our (SWT) trains if you want to see crowded, and I dont just mean the suburban routes either!

Oh silly me, I forgot, the Reading lot are 'special' in so many ways arent they! ;)
 

westie1

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A TM told me that they were told there wasn't a path, but whatever, until a relief runs, the train should be nonstop to at least Swindon on busy days.

I'm sorry, but where does the rolling stock come from to run a relief? FGW is sweating its HSTs to the max on weekday evenings as it is.

Despite that, and despite being told there isn't a path, its a case of 'whatever' until a relief runs in this non-existent path? How's that work?

To say nothing of there being no spare 125mph capable rolling stock to run a relief. Slower loco-hauled stock would eat up precious paths on the mains.

The only answer from the armchair train planners appears to be sod the passengers from Reading to South Wales (of whom there are many) by having a 90 minute gap in the shoulder peak.

Everything that can be done is being done. Increasing Standard Class capacity on the existing stock, electrification and new rolling stock in the pipeline. Demand has far outstripped current capacity on the GWML. Should that have been forecast and acted on earlier? Most definitely. The aging HSTs should have been replaced by now and electrification of the GWML is long overdue.

When the electrification is complete, the new rolling stock is ready for squadron service, and the Reading re-modelling is finished, is the time to introduce a new timetable. Absolutely pointless to do so at the moment.

As for the issues of current poor timekeeping, this has almost always been, in the past two years, down to capacity constraints at Reading caused by the re-building project. Another example of something being done to improve the situation on the GWML.

Reducing long distance capacity in the shoulder peak at Reading is not the answer. I do agree however that pick-up only should be more rigorously enforced.

I think its worth saying again. Remove the Reading call from the 1915 to South Wales and you create a 90 minute gap in the timetable. I see zero possibility of the DfT allowing such a change to the Service Level Commitment.
 
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21C101

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surely the core of the problem is that 4 fast line paths per hour are used for an interurban airport shuttle.

I cant see this will be tenable post Crossrail. For a start with only four per hour crossrail going to heathrow that means people with lots of luggage waiting on the core station platforms in the middle of rush hour for up to 15 minutes. Madness.

HEx needs to go and be replaced with an additional four crossrail slow line trains to Heathrow giving 8 per hour to Heathrow on Crossrail and freeing up four more intercity paths.

Also. How difficult would it be to get some off lease MK3s and use them to lengthen HST formations?
 

CC 72100

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Also. How difficult would it be to get some off lease MK3s and use them to lengthen HST formations?

To begin with, I think the off-lease MK3s are loco-hauled ones, which means that they're incompatible for starters.

So you'd have to acquire them first (easier said than done - what condition are they in? Who owns them? Do they even want to sell them?), then you've got to re-wire them for HST operation.

The interiors will then need to be done; I believe the off-lease ones are in a ropey condition at best.

So after all that is done, how long have we got until the new trains enter service as HST fleet requirement is much, much lower? 2 years if that?

Oh and also a 2+9 HST will have different performance compared to the rest of fleet.



Given the above, I think short-distance passengers 'moving down the train' or not flouting pick-up only rules (RPI enforcement anyone?) is a much more cost effective solution.
 

jimm

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surely the core of the problem is that 4 fast line paths per hour are used for an interurban airport shuttle.

I cant see this will be tenable post Crossrail. For a start with only four per hour crossrail going to heathrow that means people with lots of luggage waiting on the core station platforms in the middle of rush hour for up to 15 minutes. Madness.

HEx needs to go and be replaced with an additional four crossrail slow line trains to Heathrow giving 8 per hour to Heathrow on Crossrail and freeing up four more intercity paths.

Also. How difficult would it be to get some off lease MK3s and use them to lengthen HST formations?

No. The core of the problem at present is that there aren't any more HSTs (or 180s or anything else that is diesel-powered and can do 125mph) and that there is currently an overhaul programme to keep them going for a few more years until IEP takes over, so there are even fewer 125s than normal available to FGW.

Most of the remaining Mk3s out of action are owned by DB, being held in case they need more loco-hauled stock for Chiltern, though their deal for FTPE's 170s shows what DB thinks of the costs of using more locos - to be avoided if possible.

This situation is why FGW is getting a few extra TSOs for its HSTs by the expensive route of carving up redundant buffet cars.

not flouting pick-up only rules (RPI enforcement anyone?) is a much more cost effective solution.

I doubt the cost of putting a small army of RPIs on board to enforce pick-up only rules would be cost-effective. Maybe as a short-term shock therapy but simply not feasible on a sustained basis. And many of the offenders will still chance it anyway, on the basis that staff will struggle to get through a busy train before it gets to Reading.

RPIs are not crowd-control officers and I'd rather they were being used to get in the revenue that might justify leasing more stock.

But we won't be seeing any of that until 2016-17-18 when the wires go live and Crossrail starts, and, as said above, there is the chance to recast the entire GWML timetable - Heathrow services included - and adopt other approaches, eg, will the outer-suburban emus, if someone eventually decides what they are going to be, all take a right turn at Didcot as the Turbos do now? Or will some of them go out to Swindon, providing some relief to the expresses, which are the only option offered at present to people commuting to Reading and London.
 
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Abpj17

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I believe, from the chain of tweets, that the reservation tags were missing!

reservations were cancelled - why bother putting tags out for reservations that don't exist any more? (assuming they were cancelled well before the train left!)
 

Neil W

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I know that a lot of thought has gone in to the 19.15. Advance tickets are not sold for it (we have been told), and a plan to run two trains around that time was stymied by the lack of paths - it had gone as far as allocating staff in the link, so for six months the staff were being rostered to work a train that didn't exist.

All the other arguments have already been covered in the thread - but I know that every evening train I work unless there is major disruption, there are people going to Reading in First Class on Std tickets claiming there is no room, and further up the train there will be seats, and standing room, and when these are pointed out, the answer invariably is "I'll stand, I'm only going one stop".

The victim culture is too ingrained - I had somebody write in a while ago that I moved him to a "dangerously overcrowded standard class". I had 116 empty seats on that train, and made numerous announcements to this effect before checking tickets.

The only thing that could be done and would make a difference is to put the RPI heavy mob on the train, issuing PF's to everybody going to Reading and Didcot. But that would upset voters, sorry, I mean passengers.

Is it possible to run this and other services suffering similar problems in reverse formation?
Could even have staff towards the First Class end of the platform directing passengers towards appropriate, emptier carriages.

And if this reduces the problem it also reduces the resources required to tackle the more diehard "I'll just stop here whatever you say" types.
 

MCR247

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Surely the problem just then shifts to the other end of standard class?
 

Michael.Y

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Surely the problem just then shifts to the other end of standard class?

Half the trouble is the barflies blocking the buffet and slowing progress of latecomers boarding the train at the back door.
 

David Goddard

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I had at first wondered if the problem of crowding was down to it being the first off peak train. Far from it, this is the last service on which off peak tickets are barred. In that case I would expect the 1915 Swansea to be reasonably loaded but the 1930 Weston Super Mare to be rammed. What's that train like?
 

Parallel

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I doubt the cost of putting a small army of RPIs on board to enforce pick-up only rules would be cost-effective. Maybe as a short-term shock therapy but simply not feasible on a sustained basis. And many of the offenders will still chance it anyway, on the basis that staff will struggle to get through a busy train before it gets to Reading.

I've noticed this, FGW have employed extra ticket inspectors recently (occasionally RPIs show up too) on a few routes in the west region to work alongside guards in the morning peaks to collect revenue. The issue being some of the services get so rammed, they can't get around to do it.
 

yorkie

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I had at first wondered if the problem of crowding was down to it being the first off peak train. Far from it, this is the last service on which off peak tickets are barred. In that case I would expect the 1915 Swansea to be reasonably loaded but the 1930 Weston Super Mare to be rammed. What's that train like?

Restrictions vary by origin and destination but a London to Swansea SSR is valid on the 1915 but not 1845

Yet on a Friday you could get the 1819 on an SSR to , say, York.
 

Flamingo

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Is it possible to run this and other services suffering similar problems in reverse formation?
Could even have staff towards the First Class end of the platform directing passengers towards appropriate, emptier carriages.

And if this reduces the problem it also reduces the resources required to tackle the more diehard "I'll just stop here whatever you say" types.

Been suggested - "First Class passengers don't want to have to walk down the platform at London".

In one sense this is right, but more should then be done to keep first class clear - see my previous post...
 
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