Problems travelling with off-peak ticket booked through FGW app

I wanted to travel from Westbury to Bristol today, returning on Saturday. As I wasn't too worried about arrival time into Bristol, last night I used First Great Western's android app to find the first train I could use with an off-peak return in order to save a bit of money. The app would allow me to select an off-peak return for the 0845 departure (and all later trains); the 0817 (and all earlier trains) required an anytime return to be selected.

So, I booked an off-peak return from Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads using the app (£18.10 instead of £22.00 for the anytime return) last night, collected it at the ticket machine this morning and boarded the 0845.

When collecting my ticket, I realised that it might actually be more convenient for me to make my return journey from Bristol Parkway rather than Bristol Temple Meads. Going by previous experience, I didn't expect there to be any difference in price for this, so I decided to ask on the train if it was possible to get my return portion changed to depart from Bristol Parkway.

I did this when the ticket inspector came round, asking if I could change the ticket if it would be the same price. She first stamped my "out" portion and then started using her ticket machine to find the price. Once she had done this, however, she told me that the price wasn't the same as I was on a peak train. I pointed out that I had used First Great Western's own app to book my ticket and it had allowed an off-peak to be booked, but she said that she thought that must be incorrect, but would ask the guard. I suggested that I could instead ask when I got to Bristol Temple Meads.

A little later the ticket inspector returned, accompanied by the guard. I had the same conversation with him, and he said the FGW app was wrong and this was definitely a peak train. He said I would have to upgrade to a peak return, but didn't ask me to do this immediately as we were approaching a station.

The guard came back again a little later and said he wouldn't charge me this time, but knew where the "confusion" had arisen. According to him, the train was classified as off-peak if you were travelling to Gloucester, but peak if only travelling as far as Bristol. This didn't make much sense to me, and I pointed out to him that when I'd used the FGW app I had booked the exact journey (Westbury-Bristol Temple Meads) and it had allowed an off-peak ticket for the 0845. However, he insisted that the app was wrong.

Feeling a little aggrieved, whilst the train was in Bath I had a brief period of mobile phone signal and took the opportunity to download the National Rail enquiries app. This also showed off-peak tickets valid on the 0845 (I checked for Friday rather than today) and later trains when travelling from Westbury to Bristol TM. The same was true when using the nationalrail.co.uk website.

On arrival to Bristol TM, I found the guard and showed him the details on the website. However, he was still adamant that this was wrong and that the train was only off-peak when travelling all the way to Gloucester, not for any stations in between.

When I left the station, I asked at the ticket office if I could upgrade the return portion. This time there was no debate about the off-peak/peak question. After checking the ticket prices and confirming there was no difference in price, the assistant told me that my ticket was perfectly fine and didn't actually need to be changed; I could simply present it at Bristol Parkway and it would be accepted. I only wish I had just waited to ask here, rather than asking on the train - it would have saved me a lot of aggro...

Anyway, in light of this experience I have a few questions:

1. Was the guard correct, and I was incorrectly travelling with an off-peak ticket when I should have had a peak ticket?

2. Can a train be classified as off-peak if you are travelling from A to C, but peak if you are only travelling from A to B (where B is between A and C)?

3. If the guard was correct and the FGW app, NR app and NR website were wrong, how the golly gosh is any normal person supposed to be able to work out what ticket is valid for the journey they want to make?

The restriction code for a Westbury - Bristol Temple Meads Off-Peak Return (£18.10) is WG. The full restriction text is available here. From the link, it can be clearly seen that your ticket is perfectly valid on the 0845 departure from Westbury, so the guard was incorrect to insist that your ticket was invalid.

There is also a £10.90 Off-Peak Day Return, which is not valid until 0930 (Restriction W1). The guard may have confused these two tickets.
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dharkhig said:

1. Was the guard correct, and I was incorrectly travelling with an off-peak ticket when I should have had a peak ticket?

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The guard was incorrect.

dharkhig said:

2. Can a train be classified as off-peak if you are travelling from A to C, but peak if you are only travelling from A to B (where B is between A and C)?

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That is possible. Strictly speaking there is no official concept of a peak "train". Peak restrictions are defined for each individual fare, not for each individual train.

dharkhig said:

3. If the guard was correct and the FGW app, NR app and NR website were wrong, how the golly gosh is any normal person supposed to be able to work out what ticket is valid for the journey they want to make?

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N/A

I recommend that you complain to FGW about this incident. The guard made a very basic error in terms of ticketing and that should be brought to the company's attention.

Your ticket is not technically valid to/from Bristol Parkway if you travel through Temple Meads as the validity finishes there, despite there being no difference in fare. You would be subject to a Penalty Fare if you use this ticket between Parkway and Temple Meads. You require either a zero-fare overriding excess or should purchase another ticket between these two places.

You may find however that zero-fare excesses are difficult to obtain.

Hi,

Thanks very much for your helpful reply.

bb21 said:

The restriction code for a Westbury - Bristol Temple Meads Off-Peak Return (£18.10) is WG. The full restriction text is available here. From the link, it can be clearly seen that your ticket is perfectly valid on the 0845 departure from Westbury, so the guard was incorrect to insist that your ticket was invalid.

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That's really interesting. I've often wondered how to find out what trains a ticket would be valid on; the only way I know is to try and buy a ticket for a particular time and see which tickets are offered.

I can see the WG restriction code on my ticket, but how would I find out what the code would be before purchasing a ticket?

Also, how do you find the actual restriction page for a code that you linked to above? I didn't see an obvious way to do it when clicking back up to the "Your Ticket" tab.

There is also a £10.90 Off-Peak Day Return, which is not valid until 0930 (Restriction W1). The guard may have confused these two tickets.

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This is certainly possible; I would think the vast majority of tickets used on this train would be day tickets of some sort (although they are much cheaper than the ticket I had, so a bit hard to confuse when you've been looking at the prices already). I also think he may have mentioned the "before 0930" rule.

I recommend that you complain to FGW about this incident. The guard made a very basic error in terms of ticketing and that should be brought to the company's attention.

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Yes, I think I will do that. Would this be the correct form to use, or is there a better way? I could also ask at the ticket office on my return journey.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Customer-services/Customer-feedback-form

Your ticket is not technically valid to/from Bristol Parkway if you travel through Temple Meads as the validity finishes there, despite there being no difference in fare. You would be subject to a Penalty Fare if you use this ticket between Parkway and Temple Meads. You require either a zero-fare overriding excess or should purchase another ticket between these two places.

You may find however that zero-fare excesses are difficult to obtain.

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Okay, I probably won't take the risk of more aggro by attempting to return from Parkway this time - it's not too much difference in terms of convenience; certainly not worth spoiling the enjoyment of the journey for.

I have quite frequently in the past bought an anytime day return from Westbury to Patchway and returned from Bristol Parkway instead (there being no direct trains from Patchway in that direction); this was after advice from the ticket office at Westbury, and confirmed by asking staff before going through the gates at Parkway. Presumably this is a slightly different case, however, as both stations are just a single stop further down their respective lines from Filton Abbey Wood, so you can never pass through both of them.

To find the code and its implications without purchasing a ticket, may I recommend the site http://brfares.com ?

I realise I'm a little late to the party on this one, but should the OP find themselves wanting to make a similar journey in future...

National Rail Enquiries suggests travel via Bristol Parkway is perfectly valid on the return portion of a Westbury - Bristol Temple Meads ticket. The OP could therefore have 'started short' on this ticket to travel from Parkway.

Such a journey seems completely at odds with the routeing guide, as well as the no doubling back rule (is there an easement on this stretch?) but hey, if people are being told to use NRE as being definitive of what's accepted, they can't complain if people therefore do.

Hyphen said:

I realise I'm a little late to the party on this one, but should the OP find themselves wanting to make a similar journey in future...

National Rail Enquiries suggests travel via Bristol Parkway is perfectly valid on the return portion of a Westbury - Bristol Temple Meads ticket. The OP could therefore have 'started short' on this ticket to travel from Parkway.

Such a journey seems completely at odds with the routeing guide, as well as the no doubling back rule (is there an easement on this stretch?) but hey, if people are being told to use NRE as being definitive of what's accepted, they can't complain if people therefore do.

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It tells me that multiple tickets are required.

Which journey are you looking at?
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dharkhig said:

I can see the WG restriction code on my ticket, but how would I find out what the code would be before purchasing a ticket?

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www.brfares.com is your friend.

dharkhig said:

Also, how do you find the actual restriction page for a code that you linked to above? I didn't see an obvious way to do it when clicking back up to the "Your Ticket" tab.

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Again, www.brfares.com will give you the full details although I need to stress that it is not an official site, however it does the job nicely.

The official National Rail Enquiries pages can be accessed by the shorthand www.nres.co.uk/[LL], where [LL] is to be replaced by the two-character restriction code. I believe that there is a more up-to-date version of the URL but this one still does the job well for me, albeit with a few restriction codes missing.

dharkhig said:

Yes, I think I will do that. Would this be the correct form to use, or is there a better way? I could also ask at the ticket office on my return journey.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Customer-services/Customer-feedback-form

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Yes, I think that one would do nicely.

dharkhig said:

I have quite frequently in the past bought an anytime day return from Westbury to Patchway and returned from Bristol Parkway instead (there being no direct trains from Patchway in that direction); this was after advice from the ticket office at Westbury, and confirmed by asking staff before going through the gates at Parkway. Presumably this is a slightly different case, however, as both stations are just a single stop further down their respective lines from Filton Abbey Wood, so you can never pass through both of them.

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Yes, returning from Parkway on a Patchway ticket is fine. There is no doubleback and Filton Abbey Wood - Parkway - Patchway is pretty much equivalent in routeing terms to Filton Abbey Wood - Patchway direct on the third side of the triangle.