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Who is better East Coast or Virgin Trains?

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DarloRich

DarloRich

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JACK SPILLMAN said:
I've been on East coast up north but never Virgin
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Well before asking who is best why not try both out and judge for yourself.

higthomas said:
And for people who cannot afford first class?

That is one of my slight irks about this forum, too much discussion about first class.
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Exactly – there is some sort of almost Masonic cult about first class on this site. If you don’t use first class then you aren’t worthy of consideration. Although what I really love are the railcard boys – just wait till you have to support yourself– you might be shocked by how expensive your beloved first class travel is in the real world! ;)

tractakid said:
East Coast's service from Milton Keynes is pretty abysmal, so I tend to use Virgin.
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Sadly – although if going to Euston then London Midland offer almost as fast services from MK and there seems to be some price based completion happening now!

I use both services on a regular basis for business and personal use and find East Coast so much more pleasant and comfortable from a non rail card holding standard class passenger’s point of view:

Their trains are more airy, lighter and have better visibility.
They feel less cramped
The seats are better
They sell Yorkshire Tea
Every seat has access to a plug socket
Their web site seems easier to user and more pleasing to look at.
They sell Yorkshire tea
You can work on a laptop at a table on East Coast without crashing into your neighbour
Their WIFI seems better.
My phone works more often
The buffet/trolley is better on East Coast – The range pof products seems better and the quality higher. The price is a little less.
They sell Yorkshire Tea (did I mention that)

Two things I have never understood about Virgin is why the internal decorations in their Pendolino are so dark. Why were lighter colours and smarter lighting not used to ”bring up” what is a dingy environment and why they specified such god awful seats in standard class!

The fares, without a railcard, are similar although Virgin do seem to offer more very cheap tickets. I have often got a £3.50 Wolverhampton to MK ticket but have rarely got a £12 York to Kings Cross ticket.

Finally, comparing the two fleets of trains it seems that anyone who prefers the Pendolino, or shudder the Voyager, is simply a wibbling buffoon ;)
 
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cuccir

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It's worth pointing out that their geography is significantly different, and their service is shaped by that.

A Virgin train from Carlisle might also serve, among other smaller stops, Preston, Wigan/Warrington, Wolverhampton, Birmingham, Coventry, Milton Keynes. Other settlements, such as Manchester and Birmingham, are large enough to warrant frequent 'shuttle' services to London.

By contrast, an East Coast train south from Newcastle will find that Doncaster is the biggest settlement through which it passes. Both York and Peterborough have lower populations than Wigan, Coventry, Warrington and Milton Keynes, never mind the West Midlands conurbation! Further south, only Leeds is of any real significance, and West Yorkshire is 70% of the population of Greater Manchester.

So, Virgin have a lot more trains serving commuter-style routes, with people taking shorter journeys between large conurbations, or doing journeys that are quite easily travelable to London. By contrast, East Coast are much more in it for the long-distance market, with the exception of Peterborough/Stevenage to London. Obviously some people commute on them, but it is a significantly lower market.

This encourages a more comfortable service from East Coast, in my view, and tends to make the experience better overall. They can also offer very cheap Advances for non-London journeys.

However, their walk-up fares are more expensive, and service is more infrequent, because you have such a different market selling Newark-London tickets than Birmingham-London! Virgin can rely a little more on frequent shorter fares which helps supplement the cost of the longer distance tickets.
 
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Yew

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Personally, Most of my London to Scotland journies have been with scotrail! :D
 
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Geezertronic

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DarloRich said:
fixed that for you. No, no need to thank me ;)
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I must admit I've never had the pleasure of a (Super) Voyager on a Euston to Birmingham run, it was quite a pleasant journey on the only one I have travelled any distance on and that was an XC journey from New Street to Bristol Parkway. I even got a proper Window seat :)
 
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Paule23

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I've used both in the past, but by coincidence with this thread I am travelling Glasgow Central - Euston today via Virgin, and Kings Cross - Lenzie tomorrow (via Edinburgh). I'll be able to give you an up to date opinion soon!

I used to think East Coast was better, but I just loooove the scenery as the train moves through the Borders region on the West Coast Mainline. I find Pendos clean and comfortable, and Virgin staff are generally very friendly. I haven't travelled East Coast for a year but remember the seats being more comfortable, but the overall train ride/experience not being as good as Virgin.

Update tomorrow......
 
cf111

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Scenery wise, although the West Coast has its charms, I love the run between Edinburgh and Newcastle. A wonderful view from the east-facing side of the train.

Stock wise I'd take a Pendolino over a Mk3, but a Mk4 over both. You can feel the Pendo accelerate at points though, which is a great sensation and you don't get it on the East Coast.

To conclude, I can't pick! It'd depend if Glasgow or Edinburgh would be most convenient for me at the time.
 
cf111

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Failed Unit said:
Is this announced or speculation. I have seen it in the press myself, followed with a no comment from Virgin. (Which could say a lot)
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I have used "Little Red" and found them OK. No real difference from BA, but BA do have a better breakfast.

I understand the aircraft (and crew?) are leased from Aer Lingus, so I wonder how long that deal is for and if that will have an impact on how long the service will run.
 
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Failed Unit said:
Is this announced or speculation. I have seen it in the press myself, followed with a no comment from Virgin. (Which could say a lot)
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Given a big percentage of passengers on this route are probably connecting passengers to/from other destinations at Heathrow, you do wonder if Virgin serve enough destinations from Heathrow to fill these shuttle services. However they won't want to give the landing slots up to BA. Sorry I realise this is way off topic.
 
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strowger

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EC every time.

More comfortable seats.
Every seat has a window.
More legroom.
Tables/trays big enough for a (small) laptop.
Much better phone reception (on EE; VF/O2 is a joke on either).
Every seat (pair) has a mains socket.
Better ride (especially if it's an HST).
Nicer terminal at the London end (KGX is gorgeous, EUS is a stinking hole).
Better tea.
No tilt.
Invariably cheaper whether full-fare or advance (I'm in one of those places where I can use EC or WC to get to London with roughly equal inconvenience)
No Virgin marketing BS.
 
Butts

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Well one thing is for certain both Virgin and East Coast are better than Cross Country.

I had the misfortune to travel 1st Class from Glasgow to Dunbar this morning on the 0750 service.

There was no catering at seat service until departure from Edinburgh over an hour after boarding. To be fair they did knock me up a Mushroom and Scrambled Egg C'batta and cup of Coffee for the short hop from EDB to Dunbar. However the "microwave special" was almost inedible.

This was very poor compared to either of the "Big Two" , no free Newspaper either.

Again to be fair I did get a cup of Coffee and bit of Cake coming back from Dunbar to Edinburgh which I suspect I would not have got on EC.

However overall their First Class offering is substandard - charging for various items that are free on the other two (especially ale :cry:)

Why does anyone use these charlatans :p
 
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Geezertronic

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Don't know what the fuss is about. My one and only journey with XC - from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Parkway on a 22x (not sure if it was a 220 or 221) was fine and so was the return journey from Newport to Birmingham New Street on a 170. The sarnie from the trolley service on the 170 was also edible :)
 
GNER 373

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EC every time, although I have had many enjoyable Virgin journeys too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Butts said:
Well one thing is for certain both Virgin and East Coast are better than Cross Country.

I had the misfortune to travel 1st Class from Glasgow to Dunbar this morning on the 0750 service.

There was no catering at seat service until departure from Edinburgh over an hour after boarding. To be fair they did knock me up a Mushroom and Scrambled Egg C'batta and cup of Coffee for the short hop from EDB to Dunbar. However the "microwave special" was almost inedible.

This was very poor compared to either of the "Big Two" , no free Newspaper either.

Again to be fair I did get a cup of Coffee and bit of Cake coming back from Dunbar to Edinburgh which I suspect I would not have got on EC.

However overall their First Class offering is substandard - charging for various items that are free on the other two (especially ale :cry:)

Why does anyone use these charlatans :p
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That's as they don't have catering staff (or supplies) on board until EDB. Doesn't help the staff who take it in the neck after EDB though. They should scrap first class and have more standard seats for all the hassle they make for themselves
 
LNW-GW Joint

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Not many people have a real choice between East Coast and Virgin.
London-Scotland is only a fraction of the passengers on any one train of either TOC.
While Edinburgh is notionally served by both TOCs, the timetable favours EC. Similarly Glasgow favours VT.
North of the central belt still favours EC since the through WCML services were axed or diverted via Edinburgh.
WC used to be the prime route to Stirling/Perth/Aberdeen/Inverness, but not since the Caledonian routes were axed and through services run via the ECML.

I suppose places like Huddersfield and Todmorden have a choice, maybe also Hexham and places in the Borders.
Overall, I'd say EC is optimised for the Newcastle/Leeds business, and VT is optimised for Birmingham/Manchester/Preston business.
I doubt if EC/VT spend a lot of time worrying about mutual competition.
The DfT decided it should be that way in the franchise timetables.
One other difference is that EC doesn't operate a secondary service to Scotland like VT does via Birmingham.
XC provides the equivalent service on the ECML.
 
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Butts

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GNER 373 said:
EC every time, although I have had many enjoyable Virgin journeys too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That's as they don't have catering staff (or supplies) on board until EDB. Doesn't help the staff who take it in the neck after EDB though. They should scrap first class and have more standard seats for all the hassle they make for themselves
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Glasgow to Edinburgh is a busy route, as Virgin and East Coast manage to provide a service so should Cross Country. Even Scotrail can run to a brew as can TPE - No excuse I'm afraid.
 
43074

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East Coast certainly, better trains (HSTs for the win!) with windows you can see from, smart and friendly customer facing staff and good advance deals. I also like their train naming policy, unlike Virgin's which leaves something to be desired!
 
LeylandLen

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Living in Lancashire I obviously use Virgin for trips to London. Having a senior railcard allows me the advantage as being able to travel at peak times with off-peak fares.(ie 0658 Preston - Euston . Does East Coast do this? One up to Virgin .. but I now know that you can book a specific seat when reserving a seat on East Coast . I always am given a reserved seat in coach B when I reserve Preston - Euston with Virgin. They seem to allocate anyone who wants to reserve a seat in coach B so B gets full up even though there's plenty of space further down an 11 car even allowing for 4 1st class coaches usually H J K and L . So that's 1 up to East Coast ! So come on Virgin , spend a few ££ of your millions upgrading your seat reservation service !
 
gordonthemoron

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Virgin do half price Off Peak singles if booked online with an advance or anytime single, EC don't do this. Virgin allow some railcard users to travel at peak time on off peak tickets, EC don't do this.
 
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herschell

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Never had a bad experience when using Virgin for my connecting services when travelling but do agree that when reserving your always put in Coach B, whats that all about?
 
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