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Door Fault on ATW Gerald

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bnm

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I've heard that a door on the buffet/kitchen carriage of this morning's WAG Express, the 0553 from Holyhead to Cardiff, fell off in Bangor Tunnel.

Not seen mention of this on this forum today, or any news items on what could have been a serious incident.

Anyone know more?
 
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Hyphen

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Seems today's southbound Gerald (WAG Express) suffered what RTT best describes as 'a problem with the doors'.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P22518/2014/09/29/advanced

The door apparently blew off entering Bangor tunnel, and has made rather a mess of the vestibule of the affected coach. Luckily, nobody was in the vestibule at the time and there's no reported injuries. Apparently there have been known faults with the door catches on some of the coaches, which ATW have been patching up.

Picture attached below.
 

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merlodlliw

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Its been a bad couple of weeks for Gerald,

24th Sept, Down terminated at Chester due to problems with control cables between the DVT and Loco,
25th Sept, Up train operated by 175 from Holyhead ,after repairs at Chester,Gerald was sent empty stock to Cardiff to work the down service.
28th Sept, Up service terminated at Llandudno junction, apparently leaving Bangor with a door not properly closed; this door struck the wall of Bangor tunnel,
I was under the impression door protection devices would have shown the door failure,luckily none or only a couple of passengers usually use the dining car on the up train to Cardiff,
 
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LowLevel

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To dispel the usual commentary before it starts - mark 3 coaches do not have detection systems on the door. The light is nothing to do with whether the door is shut or not. It will go out and the driver can get power whether the door is closed or even not there, and indeed the driver can drive off with the light on if he so chose.
 
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merlodlliw

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LowLevel said:
To dispel the usual commentary before it starts - mark 3 coaches do not have detection systems on the door. The light is nothing to do with whether the door is shut or not. It will go out and the driver can get power whether the door is closed or even not there, and indeed the driver can drive off with the light on if he so chose.
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No idea what you mean by usual commentary,I presume the incident will be investigated by the appropriate railway agency
However not for me to speculate, no one was hurt.
 
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43167

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merlodlliw said:
Its been a bad couple of weeks for Gerald,

24th Sept, Down terminated at Chester due to problems with control cables between the DVT and Loco,
25th Sept, Up train operated by 175 from Holyhead ,after repairs at Chester,Gerald was sent empty stock to Cardiff to work the down service.
28th Sept, Up service terminated at Llandudno junction, apparently leaving Bangor with a door not properly closed; this door struck the wall of Bangor tunnel,
I was under the impression door protection devices would have shown the door failure,luckily none or only a couple of passengers usually use the dining car on the up train to Cardiff,
Click to expand...

The coach with one door less wasn't Dining/buffet car. 12177, one of the TSO's.
 
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LowLevel

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merlodlliw said:
No idea what you mean by usual commentary,I presume the incident will be investigated by the appropriate railway agency
However not for me to speculate, no one was hurt.
Click to expand...

It's just every time there's a post about loco hauled stock with central door locking there's a debate about the lights and what they do or don't do etc - just seeking to dispel that in advance!
 
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merlodlliw

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LowLevel said:
It's just every time there's a post about loco hauled stock with central door locking there's a debate about the lights and what they do or don't do etc - just seeking to dispel that in advance!
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OK, some of us thought plug doors would have been fitted to ATWs mark 3s during the £3.5 million refurb at Cardiff four years ago.
I note sister Company Chiltern are having 20 Mark3s fitted with plug doors & retention tanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An update on the incident has appeared in a later edition of todays North Wales Rail newsboard,this is a more depth report by Editor Charlie Hume.

"On Monday 29 September the southbound train was terminated at Llandudno Junction, seemingly having left Bangor with a door (of coach 12177) not securely closed; this then struck the wall of Bangor tunnel. It is said that there have been known faults with the door catches on these coaches, but surely they have the 'central door locking' equipment designed to prevent opening even if the catch fails? They do not, however, have any system to prevent a train starting with a door open. The matter has been reported to the Rail Accident Investigation Branch so we will get to know the full facts eventually.

The train crew reported the incident to the signaller at Penmaenmawr who arranged for trains to be stopped in both directions while the Mobile Operations Manager travelled to the site and checked the line to ensure that nobody had fallen out and everything was safe. The door was discoved lying by the track east of the tunnel; normal working was resumed at 07:20, and the incident was recorded on the railway's database using the code for 'a problem with doors.'

The train then ran empty-stock to Cardiff. The 05:51 Virgin service from Holyhead to London was heavily delayed behind the incident, and was terminated at Chester, just it time for its passengers to be transferred to the 08:35 London train from there; the unit from Wrexham which is normally added to the 05:51 at Chester had departed on time at 07:35."
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trainophile

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Looks like Gerald isn't very well tonight either :( .

(ATW Journey Check)
17:16 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 21:45
First class not available. Catering is reduced A trolley service ia available from Cardiff - Chester.
This is due to an earlier train fault.
Last Updated :01/10/2014 15:41
 
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merlodlliw

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trainophile said:
Looks like Gerald isn't very well tonight either :( .

(ATW Journey Check)
17:16 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 21:45
First class not available. Catering is reduced A trolley service ia available from Cardiff - Chester.
This is due to an earlier train fault.
Last Updated :01/10/2014 15:41
Click to expand...
I was under the impression a spare set of everything was available at Canton,so whats going on, I presume it was a 175 replacement.
 
BestWestern

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Looks like the set must have departed with the door open, not good. How tight is the tunnel concerned?
 
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merlodlliw

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BestWestern said:
Looks like the set must have departed with the door open, not good. How tight is the tunnel concerned?
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The doors on the Mark 3 are large, I suppose if it had happened in the opposite direction (down) it may well have slammed shut when it struck the tunnel ,whereas in this instance if the door becomes open facing direction of travel has occurred here,it rips off when struck, just my opinion.
My father had an old Rover car,a 100 I think, the rear doors opened facing direction of travel, once one did at around 30mph and put it out of alignment,if it had struck anything it too would have ripped off.

Bob
 
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Parallel

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I was on Gerald on 3rd Oct, first class not available due to a "technical fault" but there was a trolley on board.
 
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trainophile said:
Looks like Gerald isn't very well tonight either :( .

(ATW Journey Check)
17:16 Cardiff Central to Holyhead due 21:45
First class not available. Catering is reduced A trolley service ia available from Cardiff - Chester.
This is due to an earlier train fault.
Last Updated :01/10/2014 15:41
Click to expand...

The Hippo (or wag if it wasnt a unit vice) burst on route as well with loss of air I believe!
 
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I do hope you're not disappointed.
Last time I asked what was the difference between a Full Welsh and a Full English breakfast, and was told the accent with which it's served. :D
 
Penmorfa

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Blindtraveler said:
Hope this is resolved before November 11th, Iv got a trip planned and I havnt spent money on tickets to and From SHR Plus a hotel for a ride on a 175 with a trolley, I want my full Welsh Breakfast!
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If you time it right you can have your full Welsh while traveling through England :)
 
SprinterMan

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Start of a new week, and lo and behold:

2 Catering Updates

04:54 Crewe to Milford Haven due 10:57 First class not available. Catering is reduced First class coach is not available due to electrical fault.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :06/10/2014 05:21

05:33 Holyhead to Cardiff Central due 09:58 First class not available. Catering is reduced First Class coach is not available.
Additional Facilities Information:
Not 1V31 as previously messaged.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :06/10/2014 05:26

See more at: http://www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales#sthash.9hhO8M07.dpuf
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Is this still to do with the door problem or not? I don't understand why 1st is unavailable if the door fell of a Std vehicle. Is Gerald being run by a 175 at the moment due to "door safety checks"?

Adam :D
 
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BestWestern

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I'm struggling to see what the issue is here, can only think it may be the 'secondary door catch' (i.e. 'Door on the catch') which for whatever reason is failing to hold a door which has not been properly closed, and is free of the engaged CDL bolt. Otherwise the door is held closed both by the main lock/handle mechanism and by the CDL secondary locking. All of that equipment is long standing and well proven, the door catches possibly at fault would presumably be the original as-new design?!
 
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PHILIPE

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SprinterMan said:
Start of a new week, and lo and behold:



Is this still to do with the door problem or not? I don't understand why 1st is unavailable if the door fell of a Std vehicle. Is Gerald being run by a 175 at the moment due to "door safety checks"?

Adam :D
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1st Class available between Crewe and Milford Haven now !!!!!

I understand Gerald is running with out a 1st Class Vehicle but still Loco Hauled/Propelled.
 
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merlodlliw

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PHILIPE said:
1st Class available between Crewe and Milford Haven now !!!!!

I understand Gerald is running with out a 1st Class Vehicle but still Loco Hauled/Propelled.
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I'm presuming ATW are using the spare set, No doubt the accident investigation branch,will have wanted to inspect all the stock on the train,however why no First when there is a spare buffet, or was. I chuckled when I saw first on the Crewe/Milford haven. Suppose the doorless carriage will be repaired at DBs Crewe works.
 
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