YorkshireRider
Member
Fair point but to not put any slack in your business plan for poor trading figures was stupid really, and just a bit desperate to secure the franchise
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East Coast Franchise
- Thread starter Scotrail88
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Fair point but to not put any slack in your business plan for poor trading figures was stupid really, and just a bit desperate to secure the franchise
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CockneySparrow
Member
Did the Lincoln trains get binned due to the signalling hours cut back on the Spalding line
Or did the train go the other way?
Suraggu
Member
London -Lincoln services were due to go mainline to Newark Northgate then onto the Nottingham -Lincoln route.
It was to do with the hand back of the Class 180's. NXEC leased the 180's so the Lincoln service would be fully covered without using HST's except 1B81.
High Dyke
Established Member
It will be interesting to see how much pressure is applied to reinstating a service from Lincoln - London via Sleaford and Spalding once the line re-opens fully next Monday with all the signalling controlled from Lincoln (except for Sleaford station area). That means a service could run during the day between 06:00 and 22:00
Though i dopubt that will have any effect on the EC franchise.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I think it is an utterly ridiculous idea, adding more cost to an insanely expensive procurement process. It's just another badly thought through Labour sop to the left which, just like most of their plans, just ends up peeing everybody off.
DOR will not have the experience or expertise to compete with the big corporates, because any staff at DOR who are competent will be poached very quickly. I couldn't see DOR winning a single competitive franchise tender, so what is the point?
I'd agree that the main problem with the franchising process is the fact that the system privatises profit and nationalises risk. Brian Souter got his sums wrong on SWT and EMT and was able to take the begging bowl to Government for £100m of additional subsidy, thanks to "cap and collar". National Express Group should have been made to suffer for what happened on EC.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
DOR as is cannot bid because it is part of DfT.
To bid, some other government body will have to sponsor it and provide the deep pockets necessary.
I can't see which central/local government body would be interested in doing that - they have other priorities for their limited funds.
SNCF/DB/NS all have rail operations as going concerns with all the skills and financial backup for a UK bid (bank loans etc).
There is no domestic equivalent in the UK because it's all been privatised to the TOCs.
DOR managers will probably end up either as consultants to DfT, or be poached by the TOCs.
At the edges, I suppose publicly owned TfL might bid for LO or Crossrail one day as an alternative to the current concession format.
But they are not risk-bearing franchises like EC and the rest.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I know. Labour's cack-handed proposals are that they will be allowed to bid, by amending the relevant Railways Act.
WatcherZero
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Feb 2010
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- 10,272
Only way i could see it working was if DOR produced a reference bid to each franchise that the other bidders could read and attempt to beat. Result would be though they would almost never win, but might push up quality of other bids.
al.currie93
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jun 2013
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- 381
To me, while I support nationalisation, the idea of DOR (the government) bidding for a franchise as part of a competition instigated by the DfT (the government) is a bit like Alan Sugar entering himself into The Apprentice... if the government want it enough to bid for it, just go the full hock and nationalise it...
Masboroughlad
Established Member
Any more news on the date of announcement yet?
My order of preferences would be:
Eurostar
Virgin/Stagecoach
First
Really looking forward to seeing any proposed new destinations of the current route.
My order of preferences would be:
Eurostar
Virgin/Stagecoach
First
Really looking forward to seeing any proposed new destinations of the current route.
Virgin do for 1st class passengers:
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/rewards/traveller/
First GW do nectar points on daily and season tickets.
Eurostar also has a rewards scheme:
http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/loyal...nt-traveller/membership-benefits#.VFEvW6y0H6g
Ok thanks. At first glance nowhere near as good as EC rewards. Oh well.
Manchester77
Established Member
It's pointless really because if ever DOR did win a contract then the private sector would accuse the DfT of rigging it in their favour and probably take out legal cases against the DfT. This is anot her one of Millabands policies which just shows that labour aren't a left wing party anymore. If labour were actually left wing then they'd say railway privatisation has failed we're going to fully nationalise them as opposed to were going to let some contracts be outsourced to the public sector rather than the private sector.
How do other countries manage it? There are quite a few where the state provided can (and does) bid to run services.
Suraggu
Member
Its
Eurostar/Keolis being led by Elaine Holt (ex EC chairman)
Stagecoach 90%/Virgin 10%
First Group.
Stagecoach/Virgin formed a new venture called InterCity Railways for the ICEC, and have said they will use this for future franchise bids. Virgin group made it clear they are stepping back from the Railway to an extent and this InterCity Railways bid clearly shows that.
The 10% share from Virgin is basically the use of the name, it will be Stagecoach who have the directors and the main driving force.
All East Coast Staff were informed Monday, an Official announcement is expected in November on the franchise winner.
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CockneySparrow
Member
Are EMT planning on running a full service once it reopens or are they going to carry on as they are, what about services on a Sunday
If it does open on a Sunday again it will be interesting whether they will scrap their bus service from Peterborough to Spalding on a Sunday
shinkansen1966
Member
What's going to happen to the East Coast rewards programme ?
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Eurostar might keep it in a heavily revised format (the current programme can be traced back to GNER days, after all). I'd expect First and Virgin/Stagecoach to replace it with bloody Nectar points, which are more useful than a kick in the face but only just.
According to the Torygraph, First Group are likely to suffer a serious cashflow problem if they don't win this franchise, which could be fun given their cashflow problems last year. We couldn't possibly let that happen, so I'm fully expecting the Barbie Girls to win regardless of the merits of their bid.
According to the Torygraph, First Group are likely to suffer a serious cashflow problem if they don't win this franchise, which could be fun given their cashflow problems last year. We couldn't possibly let that happen, so I'm fully expecting the Barbie Girls to win regardless of the merits of their bid.
Though if that happens no doubt Virgin/Stagecoach and Keolis/Eurostar will challenge the award and most likely get the decision overturned as it will have been improperly awarded.
Suraggu
Member
London City investors are predicting Stagecoach/Virgin to win the franchise.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
VT (and I expect it would be operated as VT, even if the balance of ownership is the opposite way round to the WCML) would leave a visible monopoly - a surprising move perhaps?
Quite possibly a politically popular one though.
Neil
Suraggu
Member
Well is 90% Stagecoach, 10% Virgin, vastly different from VWC. And Stagecoach/Virgin have formed a new partnership because of the owning differences as InterCity Railways, where as VWC is run by Virgin Rail Group. What branding they will use if successful is anyone's guess.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
A very surprising move. I'm not sure all this talk of setting up a separate holding company would hold much water either- most TOCs are owned by separate holding companies, separate from the parent. It should be about ownership.
I guess it depends if they see it as a monopoly given that the ECML and WCML operate to very different places.
As far as I know the current programme has no relation to the GNER loyalty programme. I've travelled on this route and bought tickets from the TOC regularly for the last 7 years (and ocassionally before that). I was not eligible for any rewards under GNER or NXEC but have obtained 4 free 1st class trips and an annual 1st class lounge pass with EC. Wasn't GNER's scheme based only on 1st class travel? I don't remember NXEC having anything.
In August 2013 EC had a big promotion based on Rewards having been going for 2 years.
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