What is the "perfect" First Class service?

Jonfun · 29 Oct 2014

Flicking through various threads, there's often criticism of the First Class offer on trains - but what do folk actually think makes that perfect service? Train companies often say that their service is what their passengers want, but is it?

Bear in mind suggestions should be realistic and achievable - a four course meal on a 185 isn't going to happen, for example. Ideally, I'm gearing it towards intercity services but feel free to add meaningful contributions for others too. I'm looking at suggestions covering the broad areas of:

Environment - Things like seat type, layout, luggage space etc in the carriage, any extra bits on tables etc?

Service - Things along the lines of do you have dedicated First Class Hosts? and if so numbers, is it delivered strictly and formally or fluidly and friendly, how frequently, etc. Is it possible to "go the extra mile"? And if so, how?

Catering - Thinking what types of drinks, snacks, food, etc, do you charge or offer complimentaries (or a combination of the two)?

Fares - do you offer lower price advance tickets, making it busier, or do you keep fares high to keep it 'exclusive' and quiet?

And basically anything else you can think of, being mindful that there'll be a difference between local, interregional and intercity operators.

Hopefully we'll get some interesting and useful ideas

Cheers

Jon

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 29 Oct 2014

Get the 20:00 King's Cross to York. It's got to be as close to perfection as you can get!

Reasonable fares, evening meal, non-stop (when Network Rail's signallers are giving the train the regulation it deserves

), well loaded but not too busy, and absolutely no risk of the dreaded London crews* (or the Lazy Leeds bloke).

* No I am not saying all London crews are bad, but some of them are.

Abpj17 · 29 Oct 2014

Spacious table, comfy seat, free-wifi and an electric socket.

I'm less fussed about food/drink (I don't have tea or coffee) but complementary water/soft drinks/snacks would be nice (or just the liquids)

Cheaper fares :grin: but not many other pax!

Marton · 29 Oct 2014

Separation of advance and "open"

Very frustrating to pay over £300 for flexibility and have no quiet or space as the coach is full of advance ticket holders.

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TheEdge · 29 Oct 2014

Marton said:
Separation of advance and "open"

Very frustrating to pay over £300 for flexibility and have no quiet or space as the coach is full of advance ticket holders.

I'm glad someone else thinks this. Must drive people who have paid the full price for first mad when you get surrounded by kids and playgoers who have managed to grab a cheap advance.

CKiltie · 29 Oct 2014

Wish I could get that 20:00 to try Yorkie, unfortunately at the time of the night I need to be travelling towards the Sussex coast. I will be using my Brit Rail GB pass in a few weeks and so will be travelling with quite a few operators.

Am going to go on the Arriva train (WAG) from Cardiff though as want to experience the 3 course dinner experience before it gets axed.

Craig

Marton · 29 Oct 2014

Agree 2000 is good, but I really don't like the HSTs; too much rattling and noise, especially when passing oncoming trains.

The 1730 is my choice, but it was better in GNER days with a proper restaurant and the same crew as the up TT Pullman. .

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pjnathanail · 29 Oct 2014

Marton said:
Separation of advance and "open"

Very frustrating to pay over £300 for flexibility and have no quiet or space as the coach is full of advance ticket holders.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This works well on Eurostar, where both advance and normal price tickets are available in Standard Premier (more comfortable seats onboard, plugs and a light meal) but only full price tickets are available in Business Premier, where you get the full works (lounge, fast checkin and passports, three course meal etc). Maybe that model is something we could look at for intercity trains (I see it as less of an issue on more local services eg the class 170s where first is usually empty anyway and it's so small there's not much point)

theshillito · 29 Oct 2014

Marton said:
Separation of advance and "open"

Very frustrating to pay over £300 for flexibility and have no quiet or space as the coach is full of advance ticket holders.

I keep hearing this a lot on this forum. "I paid more so that makes me better than you" that's basically what you (and others) sound like. You're paying more for flexibility, get over yourself. That being said, if you want quiet, not sure about other TOCs, but Virgin usually have a quiet first class coach as well as the normal ones. While I know they can't fully enforce it, whenever I've traveled first class (on advance tickets

) the quiet first class coach was almost silent, compared to quiet in standard where it's not much different to the rest.

ainsworth74 · 29 Oct 2014

theshillito said:
That being said, if you want quiet, not sure about other TOCs, but Virgin usually have a quiet first class coach as well as the normal ones.

FGW used to have a first class quiet coach but I believe it's being axed on sets which only have 1.5 vehicles of first class. East Coast have first class quiet coaches on all their trains K on electric sets (which is my preferred coach) and J on HSTs. The only problem with it is that on HSTs as it's in the buffet car you're assaulted by all the noise coming from the kitchen area! I'm not sure about GA or EMT in terms of first class quiet coaches.

table38 · 29 Oct 2014

TheEdge said:
I'm glad someone else thinks this. Must drive people who have paid the full price for first mad when you get surrounded by kids and playgoers who have managed to grab a cheap advance.

A while ago, I was on a Pendolino coming back from London on a Sunday morning. Coach J was full of riff-raff like me on cheap advances, so there were families and kids everywhere. Someone had taken the advice to "take all your personal belongings with you" a bit too literally and had filled up all of the wheelchair space at the end of the coach with a variety of large suitcases and strange boxes held together with parcel tape.

Then a very dignified well-dressed woman got on, stood at the door looking horrified and exclaimed in a very proper southern accent "oh, it's not very First Class in here"

E&OE. Anything in italics is (apparently) being ironic. Exaggerating stereotypes used for dramatic effect only. I have no idea if the aforementioned woman had a first class ticket or was even from the south. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Your home may be at risk if you do not keep up repayments on your mortgage or any other loans secured on it. May contain nuts.

87019Chris · 29 Oct 2014

Environment - 2+1 seating with plenty of tables, with a few individual seats for those who may like them. Seats should be wide and comfortable with a good headrest and the ability to recline them for when you're sleepy. Plug Socket's, Free Wifi, and I like a Lamp on the table although its not a necessary item. Luggage should be at the ends of the coach for large items and for smaller ones like it is now between seats that face opposite ways and in the racks above your head. Maybe Separate advance Firsts and opens by putting all advance reservations in one coach.

Catering - Tea, coffee, juices, alcohol and soft drinks should all be complimentary and served regularly to passengers, for example once the coach has finished there drinks another round should be offered and also after a couple of minutes to passengers that have just joined the train. I was once on first class between KGX-LDS and was given 1 drink!:-x I was not happy. Also I think that a Cheap Upgrade to a Meal could be offered to Passengers. This would be served at seat at the passengers convenience or specified time, and can be requested on the day or specified before hand when purchasing tickets.

Service - Dedicated First Class Hosts are a definite, the amount depends on how many coaches I would say 1 per 2 coaches roughly. They should be regularly seen by the passengers as to make there presence known. They should also come around just before arrival into stations in case passengers have questions on where they are.

Fares - Offer a limited number of Advance tickets for the trains that are busy being used by those who have flexible tickets and unlimited advance tickets for those that are quiet in first class or of a decent ratio to ensure that first is being used, I understand this margin is hard to get right but just make sure the train isn't booked to capacity and also that there is still spare room in the train.

Bletchleyite · 29 Oct 2014

VT tried something similar to E* (based on colour zones) in the 1990s and it was an abject failure.

aylesbury · 29 Oct 2014

First class should offer complementary food drinks all served by attentive staff who know their job.FGW offer this as do VT plus a quiet environment with comfortable seats that's all I want and receive when I travel on these toc,s.

westv · 29 Oct 2014

Marton said:
Separation of advance and "open"

Very frustrating to pay over £300 for flexibility and have no quiet or space as the coach is full of advance ticket holders.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why not use your flexibility to get anothet train?

AmeralGunson · 29 Oct 2014

No undesirables ie.
Drunks.
Loud young people with headphones.
Screeching kids.

Shouting chavs
Quietness and space is what I'd pay for if my pension ran to it.

Squaddie · 29 Oct 2014

Jonfun said:
Flicking through various threads, there's often criticism of the First Class offer on trains - but what do folk actually think makes that perfect service? Train companies often say that their service is what their passengers want, but is it?

Comfortable seat (single seat with a table), decent legroom, electrical socket.

No kids or teenagers, no families, no football fans, no groups of off-duty railway employees. No announcements, no complimentary food or drink.

Bliss.

dgl · 29 Oct 2014

An hermetically sealed, electrified, soundproof door to protect us higher class people from the great unwashed in standard,
high efficiency filters to prevent our air being contaminated,
fully reclining leather seats fitted in booths that are personalised to the user and can be fitted and removed depending on the passenger,
a Michelin starred chef to cook what ever was desired,
and some form of airport style walkway completely sealed to the train door so we don't then have to mix with the unwashed when leaving the train to be picked up by the chauffer.

Also a carriage for our butlers with a direct telephone link to my seat should I need his services.

Use of the royal train would also be considered.

But really, Comfortable seats, Power and WiFi, free drinks (not necessarily alcoholic but at least tea/coffe and juice/coke) and a decent freshly cooked meal at lunchtime/tea and breakfast in the morning (choice of cooked or cereal with fruit).

SS4 · 29 Oct 2014

Ambience is by far and away the most important one for me: If I have a first class ticket I want a quiet journey in a wide seat with plenty of leg room. A table is nice, a table of 4 is better. Plug socket is nice but not mandatory. Related is the provision of first class lounges - with these you can arrive in good time and relax before the journey starts

Catering is nice, especially hot drinks but I'm really not fussed since I can get most of what I like from the supermarket beforehand. My journeys are not long enough for this to matter too much. For pricing I would have free soft drinks and subsidised food or free for Anytime/Off-Peak tickets although I am not sure how this would be checked.

Not bothered about service, it's nice to have but I can do just fine without it

For fares I would aim to sell about 40% capacity as cheap advance tickets leaving the rest for anytime. Having the train too full will wreck the ambience

amcluesent · 29 Oct 2014

IIRC there was a brief time on the East Coast line when the FC seats in the carriage shared with the buffet were only for use by full-fare ticket holders. I used it at weekends with my season ticket when FC was otherwise full of weekend-first pax.

theageofthetra · 29 Oct 2014

Single, airline style seats ability to recline, adjustable 'headrest wings' like on planes. USB charging socket on drop down table (min 1amp ideally 2 amp). Proper 4G wifi. Business booth in soundproofed group of 4 seats. No children.

MP33 · 29 Oct 2014

At weekends all trains to be extended with an extra unit This to have selective door opening that only 1st class season ticket holders with a pass can open the doors from the outside.

Network Rail senior managers need not apply.

amcluesent · 29 Oct 2014

FC lounges at the main station on route (yes, I mean Glasgow Central)
Free newspaper
Decent quality red wine from noon
Hot food option throughout the day (no scone express)
Free wi-fi that's decently quick
Not rammed with ToC senior managers (like XC out of Cambridge)

Bishopstone · 29 Oct 2014

171 on Marshlink.

westv · 29 Oct 2014

Special 1st class non stop 125mph service between Hull and London with dirt cheap AP tickets available only to me. Complimentary full English brekkie Hull to London and full evening meal London to Hull.

PermitToTravel · 29 Oct 2014

Squaddie said:
Comfortable seat (single seat with a table), decent legroom, electrical socket.

No kids or teenagers, no families, no football fans, no groups of off-duty railway employees. No announcements, no complimentary food or drink.

Bliss.

*round of applause*

bussnapperwm · 29 Oct 2014

First class lounges
Free WiFi with no limits or filters
Tinted windows
Each carriage has a "host" who is dedicated to that carriage
Food freshly cooked on board with proper portions
Chillers in each compartment of 4 with soft drinks and chocolate
Complementary glass of wine on boarding
Leather reclining seats
Both AC and USB 3.0 charging units
Air conditioning
Digital route map with speedometer.
Free drinks all round!

jon0844 · 29 Oct 2014

When I was on the Orient Express in April, I'd say that is pretty close to perfect.

Not even any Reading commuters on there either.

trainophile · 29 Oct 2014

Individual armrests between pairs of seats, rather than a shared one, however wide.
Plug socket for every seat, not just the two window ones.
Free newspapers throughout the day even if you're travelling on a later service.
Something a bit imaginative on the menu for vegetarians (EC's mushroom parcel hits the spot, but it's usually just something bland with a few leaves).
Proper chips!
Help-yourself area for cold drinks, rather than waiting for the trolley.
Constant supplies of tea/coffee. How about a bell on each table to summon further supplies? :lol:

Do they ever change those seat back covers, or are they just for show? Fresh ones for every passenger would be nice.
More leg room for passengers facing eachother over tables (I'm thinking EC - can result in foot space wars).
As regards price, perhaps Advance First tickets should not be released until a couple of weeks before travel, that way those who don't want to risk it will have already paid full price, and the Advances can be used to fill empty spaces, leaving of course some room for walk-ups.

PeterC · 29 Oct 2014

Wide comfortable seat, individual armrest.
Table big enough for laptop at each seat
Power point for each seat
Space to hang a coat next to seat
Complimentary hot and cold drinks and light snacks
Meals cooked on board at appropriate times - comp is nice but not necessary
If a separate restaurant or bar/lounge is provided then a secure locker for laptop.
Comfortable lounge at major stations including toilets and complimentry hot and cold drinks. Bar service if busy enough.

What is the "perfect" First Class service?

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