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Steam in Commuter Service. Can it be Done?

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DXMachina

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In one winter in the 70s, Metropolitan Railway electric locomotive 'Sarah Siddons' hauled several early morning BR commuter services over the Harrow-O-T-H to Amersham section as it coped a lot better with ice and snow than the Class 115 DMUs did

60-year-old electric locomotive on its last legs, only surviving as LU used it as a sleet locomotive to clear the conductor rails, alternately dragging and pushing slam door DMUs.. wish I'd been around to see it.
 
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Bald Rick

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DXMachina said:
In one winter in the 70s, Metropolitan Railway electric locomotive 'Sarah Siddons' hauled several early morning BR commuter services over the Harrow-O-T-H to Amersham section as it coped a lot better with ice and snow than the Class 115 DMUs did

60-year-old electric locomotive on its last legs, only surviving as LU used it as a sleet locomotive to clear the conductor rails, alternately dragging and pushing slam door DMUs.. wish I'd been around to see it.
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Slightly OT (sorry) but fairly sure this worked some specials in the early 80s. Think I have a picture of it on the SWML at Brookwood somewhere.
 
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DXMachina

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Bald Rick said:
Slightly OT (sorry) but fairly sure this worked some specials in the early 80s. Think I have a picture of it on the SWML at Brookwood somewhere.
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Several since that time. But this was before it became nominally preserved, and was an unscheduled use of a vintage LU locomotive to haul BR stock in revenue service. Its documented in the 1995 or 6 'steam on the met' handbook as having happened due to wheel-spinning DMUs causing delays, and that corresponding with SS's icebreaker timetable
 
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Bald Rick said:
Slightly OT (sorry) but fairly sure this worked some specials in the early 80s. .
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And a lot more specials since then! Some quite recently and they still continue to this day. I was invited to travel on it a few years ago (2011 maybe?), I think it was running Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham.

Several (LU-employed) forum members were volunteering on the train. If anyone is interested in travelling behind Sarah Siddons keep an eye out on the London Underground forum and you can always make a thread to ask if there's any future trips planned - someone here will know.
 
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infobleep

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With the numbers of trains running now into London terminals now I doubt a one off steam commuter service could happen. Saying that I'd love it too of course.
 
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Bald Rick said:
Slightly OT (sorry) but fairly sure this worked some specials in the early 80s. Think I have a picture of it on the SWML at Brookwood somewhere.
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One year there was a hugely complicated "Rail Fest" around this time of year twixt Staines and Windsor and Eton Riverside. Could never be done now - but had things like 37 / 50 / 47 /56 (?) , the 4 SUB+2HAL running around in extra services and was really well attended - not just by enthusiasts but the general public. At the end of the day - Sarah was booked to go back ECS from Staines to Wimbledon Park depot , being just a little bit known to the local staff - I asked for me and my mate to catch a lift home on the stock. Shall we say - after deliberately hanging around to let the normal service train out of the way - there was a spectacularly fast run to WPS - no speed restrictions broken - but a a spirited run. Sat in the darkened ECS - admiring the 1920's technology giving it a good run which the LUL staff clearly enjoyed - as no doubt did the BR pilot crews.
 
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See Scotrail thread :

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1937691&highlight=steam#post1937691

WatcherZero said:
Abellio in the early stages of planning steam trains for 8 routes. Presumably would be only a couple of services per day as regular trains would have to be cancelled to create paths for them.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/abellio-planning-steam-trains-for-scotland-1-3569868
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If this gets off the ground, presumably there would be nothing to stop commuters using the trains concerned.
 
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infobleep

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The Crab

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A good few years ago I think 30777 Sir Lamiel stood in for a unit on a York - Harrogate turn.
 
Chris125

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D1009 said:
If this gets off the ground, presumably there would be nothing to stop commuters using the trains concerned.
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I can't see them being service trains, they'd surely need specific tickets as with the Jacobite and other special services.

Chris
 
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D1009

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Chris125 said:
I can't see them being service trains, they'd surely need specific tickets as with the Jacobite and other special services.

Chris
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Well it's the franchise which is proposing them, which is how I would define a service train as opposed to a charter. Ticketing is another matter
 
Mutant Lemming

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yorkie said:
Several (LU-employed) forum members were volunteering on the train. .
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..similarly also with steam on the Met. Back in 1995 I had the distinction of being the only person paid to be on the footplate (as pilotman). All the rest of the crew and staff on board the train (including the numerous 'required' managers) were all volunteers. I hasten to add if the pilot duties been voluntary I very much doubt I would have been there.
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Another thing that might stop regular use of steam on commuter services, the emissions regs.
 
Bevan Price

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As others comment - in theory it is possible. In practice, not really practicable.

If steam was the only thing allowed, there would be a need for new construction, rather than rely on ageing preserved locos, all of which are now over 50 years old. The new locos would probably be oil-fired, designed to give optimum combustion conditions (i.e. no black smoke), and fuel supply would be computer-controlled, one-person-operated, thereby avoiding the cost of paying a fireman. Trains would be push-pull operated **, avoiding the need for turntables, runround loops, etc. at most terminal stations.

(** - and much longer than the 2 or 3 coach push-pull formations often used in steam days.)
The loco. would be a tender loco., somewhere around the size of a Stanier or BR Standard Class 5 4-6-0, but probably with a larger tender to minimise the need for water supply facilities. It would also need to be designed for ease of access & maintenance - finding enough staff to crawl beneath locos, or into coolish boilers / fireboxes would be difficult.

It would only be practicable in limited areas, where virtually all services were steam-powered, and had similar performance characteristics. Mixing steam, even at 75 mph, with 100+ mph electric trains would reduce path availability.
 
Marton

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Bevan Price said:
If steam was the only thing allowed, there would be a need for new construction, rather than rely on ageing preserved locos, all of which are now over 50 years old.
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Not quite all.

Tornado


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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21C101

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Most commuter services are still steam powered. Its just that the steam engine is no longer on board the train and is connected to the train by large amounts of copper...
 
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I have driven and fired a steam commuter service in the last 3 years - in Poland !

With the UK network so stretched - again "pas de chance" ! Desole.
 
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21C101

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ChiefPlanner said:
I have driven and fired a steam commuter service in the last 3 years - in Poland !

With the UK network so stretched - again "pas de chance" ! Desole.
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I reckon there are enough Bulleid pacifics left to run the entire Waterloo - Exeter service. Think you would only be able to do it on Christmas day though...
 
Trainfan344

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Wasn't there talk of a steam service in east Anglia?
 
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Tibbs

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21C101 said:
Most commuter services are still steam powered. Its just that the steam engine is no longer on board the train and is connected to the train by large amounts of copper...
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With the massive efficiency gains that goes alng with that.
 
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