Wimbledon & Sutton Railway - who wants it as part of their network?

The background of the aforementioned route appears to have a chequered history from when the original Act of Parliament to construct it was passed in 1910 (a later railway in comparison with nearby lines).

It was originally going to be part of the Metropolitan District Railway (the present day London Underground District Line), but delays due to concerns from the London & South Western Railway, empire building and the government having an imperialistic mindset i.e. WW1 meant that it was many years later when the first sod of earth was cut for its construction.

Furthermore, the W&SR was also in competition with the City & South London Railway (the present day southern section of the London Underground Northern Line). According to Google Maps, the Morden terminus is not very far from the W&SR.

Additionally, the London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway were opposed to the W&SR, fearing that it would impact on their revenue. It does seem ironic that as the southern half of the Thameslink route is the LB&SR, that the W&SR is today part of Thameslink.

There were proposals to have the present day loop services running to and from the terminal platforms at Blackfriars, but was abandoned and kept to the present service pattern due to opposition from residents along the W&SR.

A thought has come into my mind here. With Crossrail 2/Chelsea-Hackney being safeguarded for future construction, it is obvious some civil engineering works are required at Wimbledon station. A couple of options I've thought of are below.

1) Remove the W&SR from the Thameslink network (further controversy no doubt). Extend the present day District Line to Sutton as per the original intention when the Act of Parliament was passed. This would require some engineering works at Sutton station, in addition to the Wimbledon rebuild. Extend Croydon Tramlink from Wimbledon to Tooting via Haydons Road so as this section of the present day heavy rail service is covered.

2) Maybe a higher construction cost for this suggestion. Join the present day Northern Line to the W&SR at Morden. Services from Morden could then alternate between Wimbledon and Sutton, combined with a Wimbledon-Sutton shuttle or operate Morden-Sutton-Wimbledon-Morden and vice versa in a triangular form, similar to the peak Glossop and Hadfield services in the Peak District. However, operating a triangular service here may be a risky strategy, as it requires 2 reversals.

Both of the above suggestions would mean that the W&SR would not be part of either the L&SWR or LB&SCR networks (neither were very enthusiastic about the W&SR), and turning it over to London Underground would mean potential for an improved frequency in the future from the present day one every 30 minutes in each direction as things presently stand.

Suggestions, alternative proposals, and discussion are welcome.

In peace

Adam

PS Mods: I have posted this here as I have left it open for discussion and suggestions. I was deciding between General Discussion, Infrastructure And Stations, the Thameslink thread, and London Underground as I have touched on all of those in the above post.

adrock1976 said:

The background of the aforementioned route appears to have a chequered history . . .

A thought has come into my mind here. With Crossrail 2/Chelsea-Hackney being safeguarded for future construction, it is obvious some civil engineering works are required at Wimbledon station. A couple of options I've thought of are below.

1) Remove the W&SR from the Thameslink network (further controversy no doubt). Extend the present day District Line to Sutton as per the original intention when the Act of Parliament was passed. This would require some engineering works at Sutton station, in addition to the Wimbledon rebuild. Extend Croydon Tramlink from Wimbledon to Tooting via Haydons Road so as this section of the present day heavy rail service is covered.

2) Maybe a higher construction cost for this suggestion. Join the present day Northern Line to the W&SR at Morden. Services from Morden could then alternate between Wimbledon and Sutton, combined with a Wimbledon-Sutton shuttle or operate Morden-Sutton-Wimbledon-Morden and vice versa in a triangular form, similar to the peak Glossop and Hadfield services in the Peak District. However, operating a triangular service here may be a risky strategy, as it requires 2 reversals.

Click to expand...

Alternatively Wimbledon - Sutton could become either part of the Waterloo slow line suburban service group, or one of the Crossrail 2 branches as shown in my map here:

http://www.townend.me/files/londonsouthwest.pdf

That would allow the remainder of the former Thameslink loop service to become two separate inner suburban branches, both with conventional bay termini at Wimbledon and Sutton respectively and enabling a sensible turnback layover to be incorporated in working timetables, thus hopefully allowing a more reliable service to be maintained through the Thameslink core. With a more frequent service on the St Helier line, and a much faster journey time to central London via Clapham Junction to either Waterloo or the Crossrail 2 core tunnel, that could draw many travellers to it's range of stations in preference to catching a bus to Morden, hence relieving the Northern line and possibly allowing Crossrail 2 to avoid making its diversion via Tooting Broadway (Note I didn't show this on the CR2 version of my map!).

...alternatively, project London Overground west from Clapham Junction, rebuild the flyover at East Putney, and run LO down to Wimbledon, sharing with the District. As a second phase, a flyover north of the station could be provided to take the lines over to platforms 9 & 10, and the service could then continue south to Sutton. The loop service could either take the paths of services using the terminal platforms (1-4), or Wimbledon to Tooting could be given over to Tramlink, itself evicted out to road level.

...saves the rebuild of Wimbledon, though it would be nice to get more tracks under that bridge...

adrock1976 said:

The background of the aforementioned route appears to have a chequered history from when the original Act of Parliament to construct it was passed in 1910 (a later railway in comparison with nearby lines).

It was originally going to be part of the Metropolitan District Railway (the present day London Underground District Line), but delays due to concerns from the London & South Western Railway, empire building and the government having an imperialistic mindset i.e. WW1 meant that it was many years later when the first sod of earth was cut for its construction.

Furthermore, the W&SR was also in competition with the City & South London Railway (the present day southern section of the London Underground Northern Line). According to Google Maps, the Morden terminus is not very far from the W&SR.

Additionally, the London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway were opposed to the W&SR, fearing that it would impact on their revenue. It does seem ironic that as the southern half of the Thameslink route is the LB&SR, that the W&SR is today part of Thameslink.

There were proposals to have the present day loop services running to and from the terminal platforms at Blackfriars, but was abandoned and kept to the present service pattern due to opposition from residents along the W&SR.

.

Click to expand...

I read in 'Modern Railways' that it was a decision of the Under Secretary of State in the Department of Transport, Stephen Hammond, to continue the present pattern of service on the W&S i.e. through the central core. By one of those lucky coincidences that politicians seem prone to, Hammond is MP for Wimbledon.

Is that why he decided to stand for speaker? He was going to get the boot anyway for building re-building those bay platforms which now won't see as much use as planned originally.

Class 170101 said:

Is that why he decided to stand for speaker? He was going to get the boot anyway for building re-building those bay platforms which now won't see as much use as planned originally.

Click to expand...

IIRC it was Simon Burns that ran for Speaker, not Stephen Hammond.

Chris

Indeed so, thank you , however Burns was last in Transport before he resigned.

http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/mr-simon-burns/46
See Parliamentary career statistics

Maybe its time the non-tube LU lines were transferred to London Overground

That way there wouldnt be a distinction of operator between 'District' services where they meet expanding LO services in the south and Met services when LO comes knocking for the Marylebone-Amersham Chiltern services.

DXMachina said:

Maybe its time the non-tube LU lines were transferred to London Overground

That way there wouldnt be a distinction of operator between 'District' services where they meet expanding LO services in the south and Met services when LO comes knocking for the Marylebone-Amersham Chiltern services.

Click to expand...

While there is some logic to your argument, the fact that Paddington to Farringdon was the world's first underground railway and that the Hammersmith and City and to an even greater extent the Circle do largely run underground would weigh heavily against it.