• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

2015 Election Railway Pledges and Commitments.

Status
Not open for further replies.

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
1,772
Location
Whitchurch, Hampshire
As someone who has voted Green in various different (levels of) elections, and has never voted Tory, I'm in an awkward position when it comes to railway policies - I much prefer the Tory approach to the Green one - most confusing.

And, agains, whilst I've never been "blue", at least they have delivered on rail, unlike many wasted years under Labour - much as I hate myself for saying this!

It's rare for a "single issue" candidate to get elected - I think the most recent one was the MP for Kidderminster who campaigned to retain the hospital there.

Mostly, each party is offering a package of proposals. You may like some and not others. You might even hate one but feel that most of the rest are worth supporting. So the decision on how to vote has to be a compromise.

If I was setting a transport policy I'd probably hide behind some generalisations about making sure transport provision is improved to meet the growing demand and trying to procure things as economically as possible or in an environmentally friendly way. There'd be a temptation to offer a large range of specific projects so as to appeal as widely as possible, but that's matched by the risk that within that large range there would be projects that more groups would object to.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,722
You have to be careful because some positions can easily be deal breakers.

Note how the Green Party's hatred of GMO and Nuclear Power has crippled it and turned a large part of the left against it.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,937
You have to be careful because some positions can easily be deal breakers.

Note how the Green Party's hatred of GMO and Nuclear Power has crippled it and turned a large part of the left against it.

Perhaps but you only need another Chernobyl or Japan close to the election and no party will dare propose nuclear power as part of our energy mix.

Personally I still have doubts that Hinckley C never mind Sizewell C will be built despite the £92 per Kwhour floor price thats been offered.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,937
No. Definitely wrong.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Hinkley-Point-C-contract-terms-08101401.html

worldnuclearnews said:
Strike price

If wholesale prices rise above an agreed 'strike price', payments from the generator will be returned to consumers. If they fall below this price, the generator will receive a top-up payment. Customers pay nothing until the power plant is operational.

The strike price for Hinkley Point C remains set at £92.50/MWh or £89.50/MWh if the planned new nuclear power plant at Sizewell goes ahead. These figures are in 2012 prices. If it does go ahead, there will be a payment from Sizewell C to Hinkley Point C equivalent to £3/MWh upon the final investment decision being taken with respect to Sizewell C reflecting the fact that the first-of-a-kind costs of EPR reactors are shared across the Hinkley Point C and Sizewell C sites.

The Hinkley Point C contract will last for 35 years, the strike price is fully indexed to inflation through the Consumer Price Index and the project will be protected from certain changes in law.

NB I have snipped the article and quoted the relevant part above by the whole article can be viewed by clicking the link.
 

DXMachina

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2011
Messages
652
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Hinkley-Point-C-contract-terms-08101401.html

NB I have snipped the article and quoted the relevant part above by the whole article can be viewed by clicking the link.

And in doing so have proved me right, I regret to point out

The floor price is £92 per Mwhour. Thats Mega-watt-hour Not, as you stated, £92 per Kwhour
There are 1000 kwhours to the mwhour. Price per Kwhour therefore 9.2 pence

Which is less than a lot of us already pay our suppliers for electricity
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,722
Those deals end up to be nothing but licences to print money for the plant operators.

The only way to do nuclear power and have it work economically is state ownership with its low capital costs - unfortunately state ownership is now a dirty word.

In any case - I was merely pointing out that the Green Party has been crippled by its positions.

Additionally 'energy mix' is another politics derived weasel word phrase, designed to avoid discussions over the relative merits of energy sources and justify enormous expenditures on Greenwash.
It is fairly clear that mass Nuclear power is the most ecologically sustainable power source in the long run (centuries to Millenia).
 
Last edited:

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Those deals end up to be nothing but licences to print money for the plant operators.

The only way to do nuclear power and have it work economically is state ownership with its low capital costs - unfortunately state ownership is now a dirty word.

In any case - I was merely pointing out that the Green Party has been crippled by its positions.

Additionally 'energy mix' is another politics derived weasel word phrase, designed to avoid discussions over the relative merits of energy sources and justify enormous expenditures on Greenwash.
It is fairly clear that mass Nuclear power is the most ecologically sustainable power source in the long run (centuries to Millenia).

I disagree here on the final sentence. It is a myth that nuclear power is environmentally friendly.

Think about the uranium that is mined in Africa, the processes the reactors go through to boil water to power a turbine, the radioactive waste that no solution has been found on what to do with it, the appalling safety record of Windscale/Sellafield, and the replacement or construction of new nuclear power stations could potentially make the UK a higher risk of being attacked by madmen on the rampage.

The scientist Helen Caldicott has published various works over the years criticising the credentials of nuclear power.

On a final point, would you like a nuclear power station in your own back yard?

In peace

Adam
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,722
I disagree here on the final sentence. It is a myth that nuclear power is environmentally friendly.

Think about the uranium that is mined in Africa
Well considering the top three producers of Uranium are Kazakhstan, Australia and Canada and produce 64% of the toal supply themselves, not much is actually mined in Africa. (Indeed Kazakhstan alone produces 38% of world supply, almost all produced by InSitu leaching which has no ground disturbance at all, just wellheads <1m high scattered over the landscape)

The primary African producers are Niger, Namibia and Malawi which only produce roughly 16.8% of total world supply. If you go down the list there is only one other African state that is known to produce significant quantities (and that is South Africa which produces huge amounts of everything you can dig out of the ground).
Hell South Africa only narrowly beats the likes of the Czech Republic.
So attempting to paint this as the west exploiting Africa is absurd.
, the processes the reactors go through to boil water to power a turbine, the radioactive waste that no solution has been found on what to do with it,
The reactor boils the water because the fuel elements get hot and the water boils - it is not really damaging in and of itself.
The radioactive waste 'problem' as it is currently understood is massively overblown as a result of anti nuclear hysteria.

We currently have a perfectly workable solution for spent nuclear fuel (which is the bulk of the stuff people normally imagine when they consider 'nuclear waste').
After ten years in a reactor cooling pond it would then be transferred to a large concrete 'dry storage cask' which has an operating life of approximately one hundred years. (Verified by numerous abuse studies).
These casks will simply sit on a suitable concrete pad almost completely inert, cooling by natural convection and shielding the outside environment from any significant radiation flux.
They require heavy equipment to move or open and can simply be guarded with a pallisade fence and a handful of guards walking the perimeter.
It would take roughly a hundred years of supplying the entire UK energy demand (gas, electricity, liquid fuels, everything) to cover one of the runway aprons at Heathrow. Considering the number of disused concrete runways we have lying around this is unlikely to be a problem.
After a hundred years, we remove the fuel, dispose of the cask (which will not be in any significant way radioactive) and replace it with a new cask, repeating the process for another hundred years.
After the second hundred we replace it a second time for the third (and final) hundred year period. Thanks to the fuel being less radioactive the fuel can be more tightly packed with each evolution and thus consumes less volume, reducing the already negligible cost of storage further.

After three hundred years the fuel is only a tiny fraction as radioactive as it was and reprocessing can be conducted using far less expensive precautions than currently required at La Hague or Sellafield. The resulting material will either be reusable uranium/plutonium or fission products, the majority of which will either be stable (As the short lived stuff has decayed to stable daughters) or incredibly long lived (which although it sounds bad actually means that it is not actually very radioactive, similar to the radioactive Potassium-40 that is inside all of us right now) and can be disposed of as low level waste or simply vitrified in glass.
And the cost of all that is still not a significant addition to the price of the electricity.
As long as the money is set aside I see no reason to believe that the management process can be spread over several generations - and it would likely be cut short by advancing automation and similar technology regardless.

the appalling safety record of Windscale/Sellafield
The safety record is not actually that bad, as far as anyone knows, the numerous heavily publicised mishaps at Windscale and Sellafield have not actually ever killed anyone in a way that would not be relevant at any other large industrial facility (a coal mine for example).
Also not really fair to blame the Windscale fire on Nuclear Power since those reactors were designed solely and entirely for weapons plutonium production (and could not be used to produce power in any case as they simply blew air through graphite stacks).
Even so the only significant damage that fire caused to the outside environment was the loss of a couple of weeks of local milk production due to it being seized and destroyed.
and the replacement or construction of new nuclear power stations could potentially make the UK a higher risk of being attacked by madmen on the rampage.
What? Really?
Madmen attack things because they are mad.
If not nuclear power stations they will simply attack us because of foreign policy decisions, or any other random topic. (Like driving on the left or something equally absurd).

The scientist Helen Caldicott has published various works over the years criticising the credentials of nuclear power.
Ah yes, Helen Caldicott, the greatest hired gun of Greenpeace and the anti nuclear movement.
Most of her works have been heavily discredited, she even managed to drive away George Monbiot with her insane claims about Chernobyl fatalities.
(Which are now estimated to be from a 50-5000 by almost all bodies concerned, as a predicted cancer peak has now failed to materialise)

On a final point, would you like a nuclear power station in your own back yard?
Yes, it is really a decent neighbour, no particulate pollutants, no significant noise from trainloads of coal going in and out at any time of day, very little risk of fire (As unlike a gas, coal or similar power station there is very little to burn) and no giant stacks or wind turbine columns to blot out the skyline.
It is literally a stubby grey building sitting on a deserted beach or in the middle of a field next to a small group of cooling towers (which can be made rather short as seen here).
 
Last edited:

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
SNP are very pro rail although at most they can have 65 MPs which is exactly 10% of all MPs which would mean their influence at Westminster is minimal so any pledges at 2015 will not really have any effect on the railway. Not to mention that railways are a devolved matter.

I think the biggest railway things mentioned will be HS2 and replacement of pacers in the north of England.

If the SNP hold the balance of power they could have a big influence on where the railway funding goes, as it's a limited pot of money that can only be spent once.

SNP will want HS2 going all the way to Scotland. This could divert money away from rail schemes in other parts of the UK.

The Tories would probably be keen on investing in the route from Salisbury to Exeter and possibly beyond to Okehampton and Plymouth. This would probably not be a priority for the SNP, but if UKIP hold the balance of power, they would probably support it.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,291
Location
Fenny Stratford
Without being overly cynical I wonder how many of these "pledges" will happen. Whats that? A pig? Flying? Wonders will never cease!
 

nickswift99

Member
Joined
7 Apr 2013
Messages
273
And one of the key points about nuclear is that it provides the base load.

This is why France, for example, was able to develop a TGV network. If we don't use nuclear then electrification becomes much less financially and socially attractive.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
4,115
Realistically the only 2 parties who's transport manifesto we will have is Labour on the Conservatives.

Does anyone think Labour's plan to have a state operator who is allowed to bid for franchises will come to fruition if they win in 2015?

From a personal view it almost certainly won't as the champagne Socialists seem to be very quick to call for nationalisation when they are in opposition because they know the Tories won't but when they come back into power they claim that it wouldn't represent good value for money.
 

thealexweb

Member
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
957
Agreed. Green Party also need to be included seeing as they've had an MP for four and a half years, UKIP only a few weeks.

UKIP is bigger than the Greens in every other area of UK politics. UKIP have three members of the House of Lords, the green have one. UKIP have 24 MEPs, the Greens have three. UKIP have 370ish UK councillors and the Greens have 200ish UK wide.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,224
If the SNP hold the balance of power they could have a big influence on where the railway funding goes, as it's a limited pot of money that can only be spent once.

SNP will want HS2 going all the way to Scotland. This could divert money away from rail schemes in other parts of the UK.

The Tories would probably be keen on investing in the route from Salisbury to Exeter and possibly beyond to Okehampton and Plymouth. This would probably not be a priority for the SNP, but if UKIP hold the balance of power, they would probably support it.

The timescale for HS2 to Scotland is well beyond 2020, so there's not a vast amount they would realistically be able to do in that regard other than ensure the pre-planning is done properly. David Higgins said in his report that the same sort of national plan for new rail lines needs to be drawn up as was for motorways, and sorting out the main spine of HS2 from Euston to the E&G delta junction would be a rather good start.
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
On a final point, would you like a nuclear power station in your own back yard?

Yes. I have two decommissioned ones within 15 miles of where I live. I used to live within 5 miles of Hinkley Point as well. And happy to have the spent fuel containers trundle past my bedroom window in the wee small hours on their way to the rail head at Bridgwater station.

More than happy to see Hinkley C built. I'd be more than happy to see the sites at Oldbury-on-Severn and Berkeley re-used for new reactors as well.

We have to reduce and eventually stop our reliance on fossil fuels for energy generation. A mix of nuclear, wind and solar (heck, even tidal in my back yard if need be) is the way forward. And yes, I'm more than happy that there are a dozen or so wind turbines within 2 miles of my 'back yard'.

I despair at short sighted nimbyism.
 
Last edited:

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,510
Be a complete joke if the SNP get to be part of a coalition, most the stuff discussed doesn't even affect them, in fact as a party that clearly doesn't have any interest in most of the UK, I believe they should follow one of the irish parties and choose not to take their seats, especially on issues that don't effect Scotland.

The SNP's MPs do not and have not ever voted on issues in Westminster that are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. They do, of course, exercise their right to vote on such trivial matters as defence, the economy, social security, and constitutional issues to name just a handful of issues that are reserved to Westminster.

By contrast, I'm pleased to see that my local (Labour) MP whilst representing her Scottish constituents has felt inclined to get involved in debating railways*, and whilst her contributions may be of interest to some here, as railways are a devolved issue I wonder how it can be considered appropriate for her to be:
1) Wasting my time (and those of her other constituents) by involving herself in matters that do not concern us.
2) Unduly influencing the railway policy of the good people of England, with a viewpoint that no-one in England voted for. IIRC, England voted a majority of Conservative MPs and have been lumbered with a coalition government (which may be a good thing given the alternative, but it's not exactly the best democratic process I've ever seen).

Whilst we're at it, since only one MP from Scotland represents the Conservative party, why should they be voting on social security? (Perhaps a silly question, but actually very similar to the issue that you've raised in your post).

As has been said already, it's very likely as it stands that the SNP will become the dominant party in Westminster as the 45% are almost certain to vote for them, over and above the support they have with Unionists. Indeed, with the demise of the Lib Dems, it's actually not unthinkable that they'll be bigger than LD in the next parliament, so their transport policy (as it relates to issues affecting the whole of this island) could prove to be very important in a minority government. Heck, they may even be part of a coalition dealing only with reserved matters (although if they're intelligent enough, they'll politely decline any such offer).

Rant over.

Back to transport policy...

I've yet to see Labour's plans for renationalising the railways, so I remain sceptical. It's going to be a lot more difficult than a lot of people on the street would realise, with complex franchise contracts that would be costly to terminate/ Furthermore, does it really give us (passengers) the best deal? It may be a popular amongst the public, but given the government's track record in managing public sector companies, I would be concerned that the quality of a re-nationalised railway may be unduly influenced by political pressure. I'm out on this one until I see the plans in reasonable detail. As for HS2... they'll vote for it. It links to the communities in the North of England that are Labour Heartlands. To a lesser degree, it will improve journey times to the Central Scotland constituencies which they'll be keen to win back. However, I do have my reservations about HS2, which has been forecast to damage the economy of the North East of Scotland by detracting investment from here to the Central Belt, and removing direct rail links to London from Aberdeen (only 3 a day, but as a regular user I can assure you they're heavily used, at least to get to the North East).

Tories don't really go as far as Labour. HS2 is, again, almost certain. Having said that, there could be a swing to generating SE airport capacity in lieu of HS2 given the right circumstances. Any electrification in the North of England must surely be welcomed by those who endure Pacers on a daily basis; I hope that the Electrification is strategic and useful as opposed to simply using trains that London has no longer got any use for.

Lib Dems transport policy is probably not worth bothering about. They'll almost certainly not get a say on much. I'm sure they'll support electrification and rail improvements in general.

SNP will probably vote for HS2, and I suspect that's the limit of their involvement in the matter. I hope they raise concerns about the negative effect on Northern communities though, and try to push for a strategy to ensure that we aren't simply ignored. I'm sure they'll also be pushing for earlier expansion to Scotland, and trying to ensure that the original link can be easily expanded with minimal additional cost.

UKIP's policy is not well known at the moment; they've got bigger issues on the table. I hope they become as relevant as I expect the LDs to become, for various reasons. They have a blanket opposition to HS2 based mostly on NIMBYs by the looks of things. Based on their 2010 manifesto, they're likely to direct more money to roads and, whilst that will be welcome, I fear that it's at expense of the railways. (To be fair, I suspect that if UKIP have any real power, lack of railway funding will be our last concern...).

* For the record, she has also been heavily involved in reserved matters, so I'm sure she is pulling her weight.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,224
Back to transport policy...

I've yet to see Labour's plans for renationalising the railways, so I remain sceptical. It's going to be a lot more difficult than a lot of people on the street would realise, with complex franchise contracts that would be costly to terminate/ Furthermore, does it really give us (passengers) the best deal? It may be a popular amongst the public, but given the government's track record in managing public sector companies, I would be concerned that the quality of a re-nationalised railway may be unduly influenced by political pressure. I'm out on this one until I see the plans in reasonable detail. As for HS2... they'll vote for it. It links to the communities in the North of England that are Labour Heartlands. To a lesser degree, it will improve journey times to the Central Scotland constituencies which they'll be keen to win back. However, I do have my reservations about HS2, which has been forecast to damage the economy of the North East of Scotland by detracting investment from here to the Central Belt, and removing direct rail links to London from Aberdeen (only 3 a day, but as a regular user I can assure you they're heavily used, at least to get to the North East).

Tories don't really go as far as Labour. HS2 is, again, almost certain. Having said that, there could be a swing to generating SE airport capacity in lieu of HS2 given the right circumstances. Any electrification in the North of England must surely be welcomed by those who endure Pacers on a daily basis; I hope that the Electrification is strategic and useful as opposed to simply using trains that London has no longer got any use for.

Lib Dems transport policy is probably not worth bothering about. They'll almost certainly not get a say on much. I'm sure they'll support electrification and rail improvements in general.

SNP will probably vote for HS2, and I suspect that's the limit of their involvement in the matter. I hope they raise concerns about the negative effect on Northern communities though, and try to push for a strategy to ensure that we aren't simply ignored. I'm sure they'll also be pushing for earlier expansion to Scotland, and trying to ensure that the original link can be easily expanded with minimal additional cost.

UKIP's policy is not well known at the moment; they've got bigger issues on the table. I hope they become as relevant as I expect the LDs to become, for various reasons. They have a blanket opposition to HS2 based mostly on NIMBYs by the looks of things. Based on their 2010 manifesto, they're likely to direct more money to roads and, whilst that will be welcome, I fear that it's at expense of the railways. (To be fair, I suspect that if UKIP have any real power, lack of railway funding will be our last concern...).

* For the record, she has also been heavily involved in reserved matters, so I'm sure she is pulling her weight.

HS2 classic-compatibles can run on any electrified line, so with Transport Scotland's plans for the rolling programme of electrification in Scotland it may actually be the case that some HS2 trains to Edinburgh could reverse or go around the Sub and head up northwards as well. At the same time though HS2 Ltd forecasts the ICEC franchise will continue to serve beyond-Edinburgh in much the same way as it does today, given that there is not a lot of a reason why it shouldn't.

Some of the recent opinion polls include questions on support for HS2 and it appears the scheme is the least popular in Scotland out of all areas of the UK. With the business case for high speed rail in/to Scotland coming out before the end of this year, it would be interesting to see how this changes.
 

Jona26

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2013
Messages
273
Location
West Sussex
George Osborne 2014: The Conservatives love all you whippet-owning, ale-supping, cap-wearing Northerners so please vote for us and we will give you HS3.

George Osborne 2015: Thanks for voting us in again. Oh, but sorry, we looked at the HS3 numbers again and they don't stack up. Keep calm and carry on with your Pacers.
 

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,510
HS2 classic-compatibles can run on any electrified line, so with Transport Scotland's plans for the rolling programme of electrification in Scotland it may actually be the case that some HS2 trains to Edinburgh could reverse or go around the Sub and head up northwards as well. At the same time though HS2 Ltd forecasts the ICEC franchise will continue to serve beyond-Edinburgh in much the same way as it does today, given that there is not a lot of a reason why it shouldn't.

Some of the recent opinion polls include questions on support for HS2 and it appears the scheme is the least popular in Scotland out of all areas of the UK. With the business case for high speed rail in/to Scotland coming out before the end of this year, it would be interesting to see how this changes.

It can be hard to support HS2 up here given that it won't directly affect us. HS2 will of course benefit the Central Belt.

However my concerns relate not to an Aberdeen to London High Speed Train. That would be great but unlikely to provide real competition to the air links. It'll still be slower than BA. The direct East Coast links to the North East, by contrast, are what I fear losing. These trains are always remarkably busy with people going to Newcastle and the NE of England and they'll be replaced with basically the existing Scotrail service (presumably expanded to cover gaps where appropriate). The outcome will be a loss to the North East, as investment in Glasgow and Edinburgh is actively encouraged and investment further North receives no such stimulus. And we are of course talking about Aberdeen, a city that needs an exit plan from Oil before it all runs out. Believe me, when oil leaves Aberdeen, that city is going to collapse big time.

I see no reason why the existing 1tph on the ECML cannot be extended to Aberdeen on occasion by using the Diesel/Electric variant of ICEP (even by dividing the train at Edinburgh, for example). Let's get real; High Speed Trains ain't ever going to Aberdeen even with electrification. It would be viewed as a waste of resources running a train capable of those speeds over track in the 60-80mph range.
 
Last edited:

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
4,115
There was a plan by the Scottish Government to ban all Non-Scotrail services north of Edinburgh to get more people onto Scotrail. Nothing like a bit of a state sanctioned monopoly just to spite those "English Companies" who are getting people off Scottish Trains however when they did a survey they found that people in Aberdeen, Dundee and Inverness were perfectly happy with the CrossCountry and East Coast trains serving them alongside the Scotrail services.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,157
You will have 319s or something similar in the valleys soon enough....

I thought, if it has now been agreed who will pay for the knitting, that 315s were the likely rolling stock for the Valleys
 

me123

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2007
Messages
8,510
There was a plan by the Scottish Government to ban all Non-Scotrail services north of Edinburgh to get more people onto Scotrail. Nothing like a bit of a state sanctioned monopoly just to spite those "English Companies" who are getting people off Scottish Trains however when they did a survey they found that people in Aberdeen, Dundee and Inverness were perfectly happy with the CrossCountry and East Coast trains serving them alongside the Scotrail services.

Those of us up North are indeed perfectly happy with non-Scotrail services. Indeed, I'm sure I read a bit in a news story recently about Scotrail staff preferring to use East Coast over their own services for work travel!
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,937
And in doing so have proved me right, I regret to point out

The floor price is £92 per Mwhour. Thats Mega-watt-hour Not, as you stated, £92 per Kwhour
There are 1000 kwhours to the mwhour. Price per Kwhour therefore 9.2 pence

Which is less than a lot of us already pay our suppliers for electricity

Ok then answer this

Why was there such a furore over the price of electricity from Hinkley C being nearly twice as expensive as the current market price?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29536793
BBC News said:
The government had already agreed that French firm EDF will be paid a so-called "strike price" of £92.50 for every megawatt hour of energy Hinkley C generates. This is almost twice the current wholesale cost of electricity, but this was a deliberate attempt by the government to compensate for the high cost of building the plant.
 

DXMachina

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2011
Messages
652
Ok then answer this

Why was there such a furore over the price of electricity from Hinkley C being nearly twice as expensive as the current market price?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29536793

2 days to think of a riposte and.... this is the best you have to ask?

Its more expensive than the current WHOLESALE price.
My point was - and remains - that its still less than the current retail / consumer price for a lot of people. In a situation of shrinking supply of energy prices rise, we already all knew they were going up with or without the plant

My objection to your overstating the effect by a factor of 1000 stands.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,137
Location
SE London
I do not believe any of them as they will say anything to get into power!

That seems unduly cynical, especially considering how much is actually already happening... HS2, CrossRail, East-West rail, Reading grade separation, lots of electrification, etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Maybe UKIP will want a "Circle Line" that goes all the way round the English coast, taking in the seaside/ retirement towns where they do well (Skegness, Clacton etc)? :lol:

I think a circle wall all around the coast is more like what UKIP would want :). Probably with new coal-fired power stations all along it - since UKIP appear to believe they look so much nicer than windmills...
 
Last edited:

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,937
2 days to think of a riposte and.... this is the best you have to ask?

Its more expensive than the current WHOLESALE price.
My point was - and remains - that its still less than the current retail / consumer price for a lot of people. In a situation of shrinking supply of energy prices rise, we already all knew they were going up with or without the plant

My objection to your overstating the effect by a factor of 1000 stands.

Frankly I have more interesting threads to read and discuss than look at the merits or otherwise of nuclear power.

You and I aren't going to agree on our stances to nuclear power. But for the record I feel the strike price is just subsidy in another name, they should have competed with the market and appear by all accounts to have succeeded in not having to do so. If subsidies are to be paid it should be in renewables like solar and wind which the Tories, it seems, have decided to reduce / abolish and move the money to nuclear.

Its also political - Tories helping their big business friends which clearly aren't into wind, tidal, solar, wave energy power generation etc.
 

mwmbwls

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2009
Messages
648
One post 2015 election deal has apparently already been done

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...Nov+14+-+Week+3&dm_i=IJS,300Q5,2L5ZPL,ASRIF,1

“RTM reports that a deal has been struck between the Welsh government and Westminster to electrify railway lines in south Wales after a long-running dispute over who should pay.
Part of the deal will also see control of the Wales and Borders rail franchise devolved to the Welsh government, who will be able to decide on the operator for the new franchise in 2018.
David Cameron is set to unveil the agreement on a visit to Newport today. He will announce a £230m funding package that will see his government put £125m towards the Valley Lines electrification, with the Welsh government liable for the remaining cost, estimated at around £170m. First minister Carwyn Jones said that it could be done at “no net cost” to the Welsh government.
His plan will see the next holder of the Wales and Borders franchise repay the capital costs of electrification of the Valley Lines through an agreed annual “access charge”.
However, because electrified trains will be more efficient and carry more passengers than the current diesel services, the next operator will require a much lower subsidy from the Welsh government to ensure there will be no net cost.
The final £105m of Cameron’s funding package is for the electrification of the Main Line to Swansea, which the UK government will take over funding and delivery of as part of the deal. The Welsh government will be in charge of sponsorship and delivery of the Valley Lines project.
Cameron said: “I am delighted to announce today that we are going to press ahead with the electrification of the Valley Lines. After years of neglect, this part of Wales will finally get the infrastructure it needs with faster, more modern, more efficient trains and the impact will be huge.”
Work could start on Valley Lines electrification as early as 2019. The move would reduce journey times from both Merthyr Tydfil and Treherbert to Cardiff to less than 50 minutes.
The deal comes after Welsh secretary Stephen Crabb restarted constructive dialogue between the two governments. On taking up his role in the summer he described a deal on the Valley Lines electrification as his number one priority.
Talks between the two governments broke down earlier this year over an argument about who would foot the bill. Carwyn Jones claimed the UK government agreed it would fund the electrification of the GWML London to Swansea main line and the Valleys lines, leading to the Welsh secretary at the time, David Jones, saying he was “appalled” by the Welsh government’s behaviour and that arrangements for the Welsh government to cover the costs had been put in place in 2012.
After getting the deal back on track Crabb welcomed today’s announcement: “This is fantastic news for Wales and provides a major incentive for businesses to invest in the country. I am delighted that we can now seize this opportunity to transform the Valley communities.
“Effective transport links are a vital part of any modern economy and there are few areas in the UK more in need of the improved commuter costs, travel times and more frequent train services that this investment brings.”
The deal was also welcomed in Wales by the first minister, Carwyn Jones said: “I am delighted we have been able to come to an agreement on the funding for this very important project. This deal will deliver electrification all the way from London to Swansea and enable us to move forward plans to modernise the Valleys Lines at no net cost to the Welsh government.
“Together with an agreement to fully devolve power over the Welsh rail franchise this will allow the Welsh government to move forward with its ambitious plans to create the efficient and reliable rail service Wales needs and deserves.”
Welsh transport minister Edwina Hart added: “Today’s announcement is the result of a great deal of hard work and co-operation between the Welsh government and the Department of Transport.
“Electrification of the mainline will be a massive step forward in creating a modern train service that is capable of meeting future demand and supporting economic growth. Upgrading, electrifying and improving the Valleys Lines is vital to our ambitions for delivering the South Wales Metro.”

So everyone lives happily until the next time then. But just a few questions – in framing and selecting the 2018 franchisee requirement what input will be taken from those parts of England that rely on ATW services between Manchester and Chester, Crewe and Chester,Shrewsbury,Hereford and Newport,Birmingham and Shrewsbury. Who will pay for the North Wales Coast Electrification and eventually the Borders line etc. Clarification now could save acrimony later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top