Freightliner group for sale

455driver · 15 Nov 2014

It appears the owners have put Freightliner group up for sale-

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/13/us-freightlinergroup-sale-idUKKCN0IX04L20141113

Freightliner Group has been put on sale by its Bahraini owners Arcapita, the Wall Street Journal reported citing people familiar with the matter.

The UK rail-freight company, which Arcapita bought in 2008, may fetch as much as 400 million pounds ($630.88 million), the WSJ said.

Freightliner Group, which was created as a separate company as part of the privatization of British Rail in 1996, has operations in the Netherlands, Poland and Australia, the paper said.

Arcapita and Freightliner Group could not be reached for comment outside regular business hours.

RailUK Forums

Masboroughlad · 15 Nov 2014

Wonder if one of the other UK FOCs will buy this or will it just go to another capital investment company?

BestWestern · 15 Nov 2014

Masboroughlad said:
Wonder if one of the other UK FOCs will buy this or will it just go to another capital investment company?

Would anybody other than ze German government (DB) have the funds? And would DB be allowed to?

bigdelboy · 15 Nov 2014

Would Colas be able to get the funds? And would they want to?

I suppose there also might be options for a split up.

The Planner · 15 Nov 2014

Colas were meant to be sniffing around the UK side of DB. They arent short of a bob or two apparently.

Darandio · 15 Nov 2014

bigdelboy said:
Would Colas be able to get the funds? And would they want to?

With a parent company that has a turnover in excess of 13 Billion Euros per year, I'd say funding is unlikely to be an issue.

Monty · 15 Nov 2014

I wonder if GBRf would be interested?

GB · 15 Nov 2014

I would be surprised if the government allowed either DBS or GBRf to go for it. Surely would make one of them too dominant?

alexl92 · 15 Nov 2014

Purely on a cosmetic basis I won't miss Freightliner's Yellow & Green livery but it'll be a shame if any of the others buy it out. I certainly would not be sorry to see DBS go though.

Realistically I can't imagine DBS or GBRf being allowed to buy it - for the sake of competition. Colas would be an interesting one - would they keep the 86s on? They've been happy to refurb 56s and 60s to keep them in service... how likely is it that they'd do it with 86s? I know diesel and electric are totally different but if they work...

sonic2009 · 15 Nov 2014

I wonder if Stobart Rail would be interested?

al.currie93 · 15 Nov 2014

I've been wondering if/when this would happen as I read not too long ago that Arcapita filed for bankruptcy! Could well be interesting, would be nice if it goes to a British company!

Suraggu · 15 Nov 2014

Do not discount European and/or American operators.

Freightliner is a big market share of UK freight and its Intermodal operations are perfect for Crossrail,ERS Railways, Captrain etc. Heavy Haul perfect for HHPI etc...

Yes the business is being sold all together BUT nothing stopping the businesses being split up eventually, as they operate as two separate entities.

tjlrailblue · 15 Nov 2014

SNCF captrain maybe?

Why haven't they entered UK market before?

Would any other former state owned national operators be interested maybe?

Jonny · 15 Nov 2014

Suraggu said:
Do not discount European and/or American operators.

Freightliner is a big market share of UK freight and its Intermodal operations are perfect for Crossrail,ERS Railways, Captrain etc. Heavy Haul perfect for HHPI etc...

Yes the business is being sold all together BUT nothing stopping the businesses being split up eventually, as they operate as two separate entities.

Well, Deutsche Bahn is the DB in DB Schenker so that would make it much harder for them to get past competition controls, but I would be interested to see whether other operators would want to get involved.

Suraggu · 15 Nov 2014

Jonny said:
Well, Deutsche Bahn is the DB in DB Schenker so that would make it much harder for them to get past competition controls, but I would be interested to see whether other operators would want to get involved.

There is a reason why I never mentioned DB, as the European competition commision would never allow it and DB have not shown much interest in the UK.

bnm · 15 Nov 2014

Suraggu said:
and DB have not shown much interest in the UK.

Apart from buying the largest FOC in the UK. :-?

Suraggu · 16 Nov 2014

bnm said:
Apart from buying the largest FOC in the UK. :-?

Since DB purchased EWS. And it is well known EWS was purchased to obtain ECR and its French operating licence. DB have also made more cuts since purchasing EWS.
The Class 60 overhaul was a brief blip of positivity but DB sent even more 66's abroad than EWS ever did.

RichmondCommu · 16 Nov 2014

tjlrailblue said:
SNCF captrain maybe?

Why haven't they entered UK market before?

Would any other former state owned national operators be interested maybe?

Given SNCF Fret's reputation I really hope that the SNCF don't get their hands on Freightliner. They are losing business hand over fist.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Suraggu said:
Since DB purchased EWS. And it is well known EWS was purchased to obtain ECR and its French operating licence. DB have also made more cuts since purchasing EWS.
The Class 60 overhaul was a brief blip of positivity but DB sent even more 66's abroad than EWS ever did.

DB or DBS will always look to make the best use of their resources, just like any other successful organisation. I don't understand why you seem to have a problem with this.

Suraggu · 16 Nov 2014

RichmondCommu said:
Given SNCF Fret's reputation I really hope that the SNCF don't get their hands on Freightliner. They are losing business hand over fist.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DB or DBS will always look to make the best use of their resources, just like any other successful organisation. I don't understand why you seem to have a problem with this.

I don't have a problem with this, its stating fact DBS have made cuts to its UK arm since the beginning.

Jamesb1974 · 16 Nov 2014

I certainly would not be sorry to see DBS go though.

Why is that then?

shedman · 16 Nov 2014

Suraggu said:
Since DB purchased EWS. And it is well known EWS was purchased to obtain ECR and its French operating licence. DB have also made more cuts since purchasing EWS.
The Class 60 overhaul was a brief blip of positivity but DB sent even more 66's abroad than EWS ever did.

I'm assuming you're a senior manager within DBS because you say such things as though you have substance to back it up. Yes they may have sent more 66s over but perhaps it made business sense? I usually keep a spare car in the garage in case mine breaks down..... As for your comment about only buying EWS for ECR, where has this fact been taken from? Can you tell me why the other cuts were made?

RichmondCommu · 16 Nov 2014

Suraggu said:
I don't have a problem with this, its stating fact DBS have made cuts to its UK arm since the beginning.

In which case what is the relevance to this thread? DBS or indeed any other FOC / TOC will always make cuts if something is not making money or adding value to the business.

ComUtoR · 16 Nov 2014

The UK rail-freight company, which Arcapita bought in 2008, may fetch as much as 400 million pounds ($630.88 million), the WSJ said.

I bid 3000 Quatloos

Jamesb1974 · 16 Nov 2014

Several DBS depots have more work than men at the moment. Leaf fall/MPV season aside, it doesn't really smack of a company on its arse that they have uncovered turns because of the work outnumbering the available drivers.

Even pre Leaf fall/MPV season, turns were uncovered and texts pleading for rest day volunteers were being sent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I bid 3000 Quatloos

Yeah? YEAH??

Well I bid 3001 and half a Curly Wurly.

shedman · 16 Nov 2014

Typical DBS haters because they got rid of BR traction and closed yards. Running railways like businesses upsets the enthusiats

RichmondCommu · 16 Nov 2014

shedman said:
Typical DBS haters because they got rid of BR traction and closed yards. Running railways like businesses upsets the enthusiats

Oh really? Who knew!

Olaf · 16 Nov 2014

A little more comment on the sale:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-k-s-freightliner-group-is-on-the-auction-block-1415825996

There have been few large deals in the European freight industry in recent years. But the land-freight business in Northern Europe is expected to receive a boost next year when stricter sulfur emissions rules are expected to make it costlier to ship via sea-freight vessels. Some in the industry expect clients will switch to land from sea transport as a result.

- Possible reason for the sale, and
- also the potential wider value - such as to US operators, or Korean/Japanese/Chinese shipping lines.

Suraggu · 16 Nov 2014

shedman said:
I'm assuming you're a senior manager within DBS because you say such things as though you have substance to back it up. Yes they may have sent more 66s over but perhaps it made business sense? I usually keep a spare car in the garage in case mine breaks down..... As for your comment about only buying EWS for ECR, where has this fact been taken from? Can you tell me why the other cuts were made?

No, I'm a senior manager with a TOC, not DBS. Its well known DBS could not get a foothold in the French Freight market due to the French authorities denying them access. Along comes EWS for sales including its French ECR subsidiary and bingo the perfect opportunity to get into France.
After the competition commission agreed, DBS finally got their hand in the French freight market.

ECR ordered Class 77's (Class 66's with giant roof mounted air con for French railways, now been approved for Germany, Belgium iirc) and allocated more EWS 66's for the ECR operation.
Then DBS won work in Poland and sent UK 66's over to be converted to Polak standards.
I have no gripe with DBS, this is just what they have done since purchasing EWS, whom I was never a fan of.

hairyhandedfool · 16 Nov 2014

GB said:
I would be surprised if the government allowed either DBS or GBRf to go for it. Surely would make one of them too dominant?

alexl92 said:
....Realistically I can't imagine DBS or GBRf being allowed to buy it - for the sake of competition....

I am slightly curious about these comments because, as I recall, EWS was formed of four of the five Railfreight companies (Transrail, Mainline Freight, Loadhaul and Rail Express Systems), with the other companies at the time being a smallish outfit hauling nuclear fuel rods, two smallish operations for aggregates traffic, a smallish outfit for some coal trains and Freightliner.

Granted that was twenty years ago, but have rules really changed that much?

wheelnrail · 16 Nov 2014

Suraggu said:
Do not discount European and/or American operators.

Freightliner is a big market share of UK freight and its Intermodal operations are perfect for Crossrail,ERS Railways, Captrain etc. Heavy Haul perfect for HHPI etc...

Yes the business is being sold all together BUT nothing stopping the businesses being split up eventually, as they operate as two separate entities.

Especially the US carriers. I mean who knows, Genesee and Wyoming might get in the mix. Oh god...

Freightliner group for sale

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