How Many train crew is there normally on a train?

thenorthern · 5 Dec 2014

I am trying to work out how many train crew there normally are on a train. From what I can understand for local lines there is normally 2 consisting of a driver and a conductor.

For CrossCountry I normally can count a crew of 4 consisting of a driver, retail manager, conductor and first class host.

With Virgin Trains I normally can see about 9 staff which are a driver, train manager, first class host, retail manager, conductor, and upto 4 cleaners.

How many is the maximum amount on a train under normal circumstances and what the most common amount on a train?

RailUK Forums

Geeves · 5 Dec 2014

On Northern at least you could have two road learners in the drivers cab along with a trainee conductor in the back. I guess on Virgin that would make your nine plus 3.

ComUtoR · 5 Dec 2014

I doubt you will find a "common" number as TOCs and services differ greatly.

Southeastern run DOO and only have a Driver up the pointy end. Southeastern mainline has Driver + Guard

Not sure about HS1 but they have an OBM (on board manager) So I think that's just Driver + OBM

NSE · 5 Dec 2014

All FCC services were DOO, so I assume it's still currently the same with Great Northern/Thameslink. Although you get RPI's on board, (I'm pretty certain they aren't guards, like 99.9% sure) so that's just one, the driver. I believe c2c is the same, and a lot of the AGA stuff on the West Anglia side at least

muz379 · 5 Dec 2014

On Northern for the train to run there has to be one guard and one driver .

However sometimes you might have another guard or driver traveling passenger either as part of their booked job or just going to/from work .You could have a driver or guard route learning . You might have managers assessing either of the trainee . And then there is always the possibility of having a saloon full of trainee guards or guards rote learning .

Then there is the staff train to the shed in the morning which can have 4 or 5 drivers and a couple of guards on and no passengers

.

Basically there is no Normal number only a bare minimum .

bengolding · 5 Dec 2014

My Virgin Train yesterday had had 8 - 4 First Class hots, a chef, a TM, a shop staff and driver.

PaxVobiscum · 5 Dec 2014

bengolding said:
My Virgin Train yesterday had had 8 - 4 First Class hots, a chef, a TM, a shop staff and driver.

Freudian slip?

DarloRich · 5 Dec 2014

one or more

I would say the average is 3. Based on personal observation and no science!

EM2 · 5 Dec 2014

The average for trains I use is 1!

DarloRich · 5 Dec 2014

EM2 said:
The average for trains I use is 1!

ah but not the national average

LeeLivery · 5 Dec 2014

South West Trains all have guard and driver though I think the Weymouths and Exeters maybe have a third staff member.

Southern Metros are DOO but as far as I can see everything else is driver + guard.

Abellio GA have no guards at all on London routes (apart from Norwich InterCity).

greatkingrat · 5 Dec 2014

How many staff does the Caledonian Sleeper normally have?

fairysdad · 5 Dec 2014

LeeLivery said:
South West Trains all have guard and driver though I think the Weymouths and Exeters maybe have a third staff member.

Assuming you're counting the person who mans the trolley, in which case the Exeters only have them as far as Axminster. (Are they the only two SWT routes that have trolleys? They tend to be the only ones I catch, so I'd no idea I was so fortunate to be able to expend extortionate amounts of money on poor coffee!)

SF-02 · 5 Dec 2014

On southeastern metro just the driver.

Not good when many people don't pay as 80% of stations have open or no barriers, and your trains like to catch fire

TheEdge · 5 Dec 2014

On AGA, excluding free agents like RPIs, anywhere from 1 (DOO) to 4, an intercity hauled set with a driver, guard, cafe host and a trolley service.

Jdrowlands · 5 Dec 2014

On Northern services, there is always a guard and a driver. Sometimes, most commonly in the morning peak, there will also be a Revenue Protection Assistant who works with the guard by issuing tickets to those boarding at unstaffed stations.

On non-London East Midlands Trains services, the same applies but their revenue staff can also issue Penalty Fares where appropriate.

thenorthern · 5 Dec 2014

Are East Midlands Trains Senior Conductors also RPIs? I think I have seen the badge but I am not sure if they are.

AmeralGunson · 5 Dec 2014

I always get puzzled when I travel to Leeds to see my cousin. Someone announcing themselves as, "your Guard" (I never know why, they're the train's Guard not mine) and announces all the stations that the train is going to stop at. A little while later someone called the "Crew Leader" then makes an announcement. Crew Leader sounds like they're in charge but I thought that the Guard was in charge.
Who's in charge?

PermitToTravel · 5 Dec 2014

There's been at least one incident where a DLR pilot accidentally dispatched their train from outside, resulting in a train running with no members of staff aboard

I believe there have also been a couple of similar incidents on LU, at least one on a non-automatic line

IanXC · 5 Dec 2014

AmeralGunson said:
I always get puzzled when I travel to Leeds to see my cousin. Someone announcing themselves as, "your Guard" (I never know why, they're the train's Guard not mine) and announces all the stations that the train is going to stop at. A little while later someone called the "Crew Leader" then makes an announcement. Crew Leader sounds like they're in charge but I thought that the Guard was in charge.
Who's in charge?

"Crew Leader" on East Coast is really "Catering Crew Leader" - and so yes the Guard/Train Manager ultimately has responsibility.

hallamhash · 5 Dec 2014

fairysdad said:
Assuming you're counting the person who mans the trolley, in which case the Exeters only have them as far as Axminster. (Are they the only two SWT routes that have trolleys? They tend to be the only ones I catch, so I'd no idea I was so fortunate to be able to expend extortionate amounts of money on poor coffee!)

I've seen the trolley sporadically on the PDL, generally on weekday afternoons IIRC. I once saw someone being trained as a trolley assistant, so four if you're lucky

tsr · 5 Dec 2014

LeeLivery said:
Southern Metros are DOO but as far as I can see everything else is driver + guard.

There will generally not be a conductor on the train between London Bridge and Purley on Redhill route services to/from Reigate & Tonbridge in off-peak hours. There are also some London Victoria-Brighton services which run without conductors.

There are various stations specified where trains may be driver-only dispatched in an emergency, but where this would not normally take place. I am not sure if I would be permitted to reveal full details - I am aware there might be some differences between documentation available to different parties.

Parallel · 6 Dec 2014

On FGW in the west it's usually a guard and a driver (and trolley staff depending on the service), although sometimes ticket inspectors (the ones that only sell tickets, not issue PFs), litter collectors and occasionally RPIs all appear.

Saying that there was a time when I saw 2x RPIs (one male, one female), a male guard, a male driver, a female ticket examiner, 2x trolley staff (one in training), 1x male litter collector and another female doing the tannoy announcements on one 3 car train. Overkill!

PermitToTravel · 6 Dec 2014

tsr said:
There will generally not be a conductor on the train between London Bridge and Purley on Redhill route services to/from Reigate & Tonbridge in off-peak hours. There are also some London Victoria-Brighton services which run without conductors.

There are various stations specified where trains may be driver-only dispatched in an emergency, but where this would not normally take place. I am not sure if I would be permitted to reveal full details - I am aware there might be some differences between documentation available to different parties.

And of course, if any insider information were available to you, you would know what the differences in disclosure rules were. Please grow up.

Abpj17 · 6 Dec 2014

Thameslink is definitely most common to only have the Driver. Sometimes there will one or two RPI (but not for the full journey), occassionally there will be a second driver hitching a lift.

Jdrowlands · 6 Dec 2014

thenorthern said:
Are East Midlands Trains Senior Conductors also RPIs? I think I have seen the badge but I am not sure if they are.

Generally, Senior Conductors are not PF trained and cannot do MG11s (reports for prosecution under caution) and as such their job is purely to sell regular tickets.

noddingdonkey · 6 Dec 2014

Fahad said:
There's been at least one incident where a DLR pilot accidentally dispatched their train from outside, resulting in a train running with no members of staff aboard

I believe there have also been a couple of similar incidents on LU, at least one on a non-automatic line

On a non-automatic line? How?

tsr · 6 Dec 2014

Fahad said:
And of course, if any insider information were available to you, you would know what the differences in disclosure rules were. Please grow up.

Not sure what you're on about. That was totally uncalled-for. I am perfectly entitled to have read the internal documentation detailing which stations may be served by DOO trains in emergencies only, but this is for internal use and I cannot publicise it without prior permission. I know that Southern or perhaps their partners have made some similar information available a year or two ago to member(s) of the public who have enquired, but I cannot for the life of me remember where it is online and I have a feeling some information was missed out. To stay on the side of caution, I am not publicising the emergency DOO arrangements here, in case whatever has previously been sent to those interested was less informative. Happy?

(FWIW, there is a consolidated document in place which states the planned (not necessarily actual) cutbacks given to service in emergencies, including to guard/conductor operation. This is mainly used by Control teams and I certainly know that I could not just publish that document online as it is not accessible to the public, to the very best of my knowledge. It might be read by myself to then selectively tell passengers what might happen next, but that would be about it. As I am sure you will understand, business contingency measures are sometimes best kept confidential, and in this case I would rather it remained that way until someone with a rather fancier job title says so.)

380gk · 6 Dec 2014

Scotrail:

It's a franchise commitment for all trains to be manned by two members of staff. This is a driver and either a conductor or a ticket examiner. The only time trains run with the driver only is when they're operating ECS or if the ticket examiner turn has not been able to be covered.

Some busy routes running with a conductor also have ticket examiners assisting ad hoc during the peaks - prime candidates for this are usually peak east kilbrides, ocassionally GLC - EDB via shorts and north berwicks. On services where the depot is at the extremity of the route (Gourock, Ayr, Dalmuir etc) it's very common to see drivers and conductors/ticket examiners to be hitching lifts to and from where they need to be (especially in the evenings/Sunday's).

On intercity routes, there is also a hospitality assistant.

So as a minimum, 2 members of staff.

455driver · 6 Dec 2014

380gk said:
Scotrail:

It's a franchise commitment for all trains to be manned by two members of staff. This is a driver and either a conductor or a ticket examiner. The only time trains run with the driver only is when they're operating ECS or if the ticket examiner turn has not been able to be covered.

Some busy routes running with a conductor also have ticket examiners assisting ad hoc during the peaks - prime candidates for this are usually peak east kilbrides, ocassionally GLC - EDB via shorts and north berwicks. On services where the depot is at the extremity of the route (Gourock, Ayr, Dalmuir etc) it's very common to see drivers and conductors/ticket examiners to be hitching lifts to and from where they need to be (especially in the evenings/Sunday's).

On intercity routes, there is also a hospitality assistant.

So as a minimum, 2 members of staff.

Didnt Scotrail get into trouble a few years ago because up to 30% of (TE) trains were running without a TE on board?

How Many train crew is there normally on a train?

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