• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Why are all trains yellow at the front?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ash Bridge

Established Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
4,072
Location
Stockport
Read somewhere that the first yellow panels were applied during 1960 on BR. Was just looking at shots of locomotives and units in Belgium and yellow panels seem to be applied there in a very similar way to here,with one or to loco exceptions one being a class 66, unless of course these are not domestic locos, can anyone enlighten me?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,385
It’s also been perpetuated on all the liveries that have been worn by the 59/0 and 59/1 sub-classes since: Foster Yeoman (both UK versions), ARC, Hanson, Mendip Rail and Aggregate Industries. All just have the yellow bufferbeam.

The buffer beam area's height will only be marginally smaller than the regulation, if it's nearly 2 ft high (so meeting the 0.6m minimum), as the full width of the loco will ensure the overall area is well over the minimum 1 sq m.

So by scaling from a 'head on' photograph, it should be possible to determine the rough height of the yellow area. I reckon its about 550 mm, on a sample of one that I found online.

I guess it also depends if the overlap of the buffers themselves has to be allowed for or not, because they reduce the height quite a bit at their positions. Also what about light fittings, hoses etc?
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,884
Location
Nottingham
I imagine that you're probably correct about that. On the other hand, it might make sense for UK HS fleets to have the yellow, in case they need to stray off the HS lines for any reason (e.g. diversions, depots, deliveries, etc, and obviously subject to gauge clearance).

Eurostar clearly had this, one of the best examples of incorporating the yellow into the main livery if I recall correctly. I presume the yellow on the E320 sets is part of the corporate colour scheme rather than a safety feature, unless NR rules apply on the bits of track to Ashford and the depot.

I assume the HS2 classic compatible fleets will have yellow ends, but if the captive sets do too I think it will be simply to establish a uniform image for the travelling public.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
2,275
There's a web site somewhere )can't remember the name) but it has various liveries with the yellow photoshoped out and some of them look weird without the yellow ends

Virgin HST: http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?43901_vr.jpg

Deltic in BR Blue: http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?55026_bny.jpg

Flying Badger: http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?89001_bny.jpg

Class 47 with Finsbury Park-style window surrounds: http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?47666_bny.jpg

There are more but I haven't got time to dig around right now!
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,783
Location
Herts
Original spec was 51% of front end to be yellow (though 100% often in practice) + "proper" hand cleaning of the cab ends at frequent intervals. High intensity front end lights have obviously reduced the requirement. Too many track staff "caught it" with silent(ish) diesel and electric trains coming onto them in the transition period...
 

Electrostar

Member
Joined
18 May 2009
Messages
312
As alluded to earlier the Heathrow Express 332 EMUs were designed without a yellow warning panel to resemble a crash helmet. I believe the units were already built when word came that the rules weren't going to be changed. Warning panels were added but never quite looked like a smooth part of the design. Compare these to the similar 333s where the yellow panels look part of the build. I believe when the 332s were refurbished recently they received revised yellow panels which look a more natural fit. Out of interest, if the 332s worked only on the Heathrow owned spur could they be warning-panel free?

I think the HSTs used the warning panel beautifully with body side extension remaining into the first incarnation of IC executive livery. The early sliding door stock also had yellow wrapped round - the 313s angled, the 455s more stunted. The blue-grey 313s were also slightly odd for having black centre doors to offset the yellow cabs.

Weren't there issues with the 442s too. I think the Stagecoach South West Trains livery originally envisaged more orange and less yellow.

The discussion of Network Rail got me thinking about the old class 97/6 Ruston & Hornby shunters which were painted yellow with was stripes at the front. Looking at photos on Google Images it's hard to tell if it's the same shade of yellow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The 332s without yellow front ends. No denying they were stylish and rather futuristic at the time but silly of the designers not to be abreast of the rules.

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/heathrow-express/heathrow-express6.html
 

cjmillsnun

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
3,254
As alluded to earlier the Heathrow Express 332 EMUs were designed without a yellow warning panel to resemble a crash helmet. I believe the units were already built when word came that the rules weren't going to be changed. Warning panels were added but never quite looked like a smooth part of the design. Compare these to the similar 333s where the yellow panels look part of the build. I believe when the 332s were refurbished recently they received revised yellow panels which look a more natural fit. Out of interest, if the 332s worked only on the Heathrow owned spur could they be warning-panel free?

I think the HSTs used the warning panel beautifully with body side extension remaining into the first incarnation of IC executive livery. The early sliding door stock also had yellow wrapped round - the 313s angled, the 455s more stunted. The blue-grey 313s were also slightly odd for having black centre doors to offset the yellow cabs.

Weren't there issues with the 442s too. I think the Stagecoach South West Trains livery originally envisaged more orange and less yellow.

The discussion of Network Rail got me thinking about the old class 97/6 Ruston & Hornby shunters which were painted yellow with was stripes at the front. Looking at photos on Google Images it's hard to tell if it's the same shade of yellow.

442s were originally in NSE Toothpaste. IIRC they were not changed apart from 2402 which had an orange stripe added, until the white express SWT livery was applied. From the start, they had more yellow than the NSE livery in that the grey top of the corridor connection was painted yellow.
 

Electrostar

Member
Joined
18 May 2009
Messages
312
Neither of these are my pics but I think they illustrate the original and revised yellow front ends of the 332s.

http://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/EMU/332/i-QNDhBHt

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/stuart166axe/8648437948/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
CJmillsnun: I know the 442s gained more yellow in SWT than it had in original NSE toothpaste but I sure I remember reading SWT originally wanted to paint the centre door orange (with the lower cab on the left and right remaining yellow) but weren't alllowed to do opted for a full yellow door whereas NSE had half-yelllow, half dark grey or black. However I can't find any reference to this so it might be a mistake on my part.
 

Harbon 1

Member
Joined
30 Apr 2011
Messages
1,020
Location
Burton on Trent
I know this is off-topic but this line in the visibility specification got me wondering...

C2.3.2 Simultaneous lighting of tail and front-end lamps at one end of the
vehicle
With the exception of shunting locomotives it shall not be possible to light taillamps
and front-end lamps simultaneously at the same end of the vehicle.

I read on here that SWT have all the lights switched on to say that the unit has been serviced when it's on shed (i have observed this myself only at Clapham as thats the only place I've seen Desiros on shed), but how does this work if its not possible under the specification? Is the unit 'plugged in' to a computer that changes the lights or is it because the unit is not on the network when its in the depot?
 
Last edited:

cjmillsnun

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
3,254
I know this is off-topic but this line in the visibility specification got me wondering...



I read on here that SWT have all the lights switched on to say that the unit has been serviced when it's on shed (i have observed this myself only at Clapham as thats the only place I've seen Desiros on shed), but how does this work if its not possible under the specification? Is the unit 'plugged in' to a computer that changes the lights or is it because the unit is not on the network when its in the depot?

When in depot it's not on the network.
 

Bigfoot

Member
Joined
2 Dec 2013
Messages
1,117
It's very easy to have white and red marker lights on at the same time on a Desiro.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top