Alert: Lincolnshire resignalling

DaveHarries · 6 Jan 2015

Hi all,

I thought I would take this opportunity to pass on some information given to me by a signalman who works some of the boxes in the Grimsby / Scunthorpe area. The information is passed on by permission of the signalman in question who is, I think, also a member of this forum.

An engineering blockade, due to last 17 days from Christmas Eve 2015, will see resignalling of the line between Appleby (Lincs) and Cleethorpes. This will, in turn, see the abolition of the boxes at Appleby (Lincs), Barnetby East, Brocklesby Junction, Elsham, Marsh Junction, Pasture Street, Roxton Sidings, Stallingborough and Wrawby Junction. I guess the gate cabin at Thornton Abbey - which controls semaphores - will also fall to this as will its crossing gates.

The box at Ulceby Junction will also close during these works. York ROC will take over the resignalled area and will control to the fringes with Scunthorpe, Brigg, Holton-le-Moor, Immingham Reception, Goxhill and Great Coates no. 1 boxes. It will be a pity to see the semaphores at Barnetby, Wrawby and Thornton Abbey lost.

I understand that the work is currently on target as of yesterday.

HTIOI,
Dave

RailUK Forums

RichmondCommu · 6 Jan 2015

DaveHarries said:
Hi all,

I thought I would take this opportunity to pass on some information given to me by a signalman who works some of the boxes in the Grimsby / Scunthorpe area. The information is passed on by permission of the signalman in question who is, I think, also a member of this forum.

An engineering blockade, due to last 17 days from Christmas Eve 2015, will see resignalling of the line between Appleby (Lincs) and Cleethorpes. This will, in turn, see the abolition of the boxes at Appleby (Lincs), Barnetby East, Brocklesby Junction, Elsham, Marsh Junction, Pasture Street, Roxton Sidings, Stallingborough and Wrawby Junction. I guess the gate cabin at Thornton Abbey - which controls semaphores - will also fall to this as will its crossing gates.

The box at Ulceby Junction will also close during these works. York ROC will take over the resignalled area and will control to the fringes with Scunthorpe, Brigg, Holton-le-Moor, Immingham Reception, Goxhill and Great Coates no. 1 boxes. It will be a pity to see the semaphores at Barnetby, Wrawby and Thornton Abbey lost.

I understand that the work is currently on target as of yesterday.

HTIOI,
Dave

Thanks for the heads up. Sad to think that loyal employees will be losing their jobs. Hopefully there will be one or two opportunities for me to take photos this summer before they close.

DaveHarries · 6 Jan 2015

Hi,

If you get a chance to head up to Lincolnshire then do. Many semaphores to be found in the area and the box at Kirton Lime Sidings is a treat too. I may be heading up in that direction in the summer. For a hint the boxes at Barnetby and, possibly, Wrawby Jcn are probably the boxes with the most available angles for photos. Goxhill and Roxton are worth a call: Goxhill retains - and will do after the works AFAIK - its semaphores and both Roxton Sidings and Goxhill boxes have working gatewheels.

Dave

RichmondCommu · 6 Jan 2015

DaveHarries said:
Hi,

If you get a chance to head up to Lincolnshire then do. Many semaphores to be found in the area and the box at Kirton Lime Sidings is a treat too. I may be heading up in that direction in the summer. For a hint the boxes at Barnetby and, possibly, Wrawby Jcn are probably the boxes with the most available angles for photos. Goxhill and Roxton are worth a call: Goxhill retains - and will do after the works AFAIK - its semaphores and both Roxton Sidings and Goxhill boxes have working gatewheels.

Dave

Many thanks for this information. Daft question here but are there still sidings at Roxton? And for that matter Kirton Lime Sidings? Just curious that's all

trentside · 6 Jan 2015

RichmondCommu said:
Many thanks for this information. Daft question here but are there still sidings at Roxton?

Nope - there are no sidings at Roxton these days.

DaveHarries · 6 Jan 2015

trentside said:
Nope - there are no sidings at Roxton these days.

Correct.

RichmondCommu said:
Many thanks for this information. Daft question here but are there still sidings at [.....] Kirton Lime Sidings?

Again no. Just a very impressive box. Unfortunately the bridge seen in the first photo is the easiest - and possibly the only lawful - position for getting photos.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/14105303995

Best to wait for the sun to be behind your back when photographing KLS. Evidence of the sidings remains but they are disconnected. Rather a lack of trains too: passenger trains only come through here on Saturdays and the rest of the week it is freight only.

HTIOI,
Dave

sheff'd victoria · 13 Jan 2015

The " Brigg " line was planned for signal box closure in 2013, where it is not nice to see job losses it will cut out this awful signal box opening times that Network Rail have on this line between 0700-1300.

Class 170101 · 13 Jan 2015

Sadly doesn't mean the passenger service over it will improve.

RichmondCommu · 13 Jan 2015

Thanks for all the information. My oldest daughter is at Nottingham University so there will be plenty of opportunities for photographs in the next few months.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DaveHarries said:
Correct.

Again no. Just a very impressive box. Unfortunately the bridge seen in the first photo is the easiest - and possibly the only lawful - position for getting photos.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/14105303995

Best to wait for the sun to be behind your back when photographing KLS. Evidence of the sidings remains but they are disconnected. Rather a lack of trains too: passenger trains only come through here on Saturdays and the rest of the week it is freight only.

HTIOI,
Dave

That looks like a lovely little box. I wonder how many levers are still in use. I dare say the majority are painted white

Is there any way of finding out the grid reference?

WestRiding · 14 Jan 2015

sheff'd victoria said:
The " Brigg " line was planned for signal box closure in 2013, where it is not nice to see job losses it will cut out this awful signal box opening times that Network Rail have on this line between 0700-1300.

and you think the service will improve as a result? don't bank on it.

trentside · 14 Jan 2015

kimflop said:
and you think the service will improve as a result? don't bank on it.

I don't think anyone does, but it removes one more in a long list of obstacles.

Tomnick · 14 Jan 2015

I don't think it was ever really an obstacle, was it? I'd guess that the box opening hours, and the lack of an early turn, were designed around the booked traffic - fairly easily rectified, at least from a planning point of view?

GrimsbyPacer · 14 Jan 2015

Wouldn't the signalling be better controlled from the local area rather than York. The huge amount of freight surely warrents the cost of signal boxes.

RichmondCommu · 14 Jan 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
Wouldn't the signalling be better controlled from the local area rather than York. The huge amount of freight surely warrents the cost of signal boxes.

Where the signal box is located is irrelevant. Although it is very sad to see people losing their jobs Network Rail needs to save money through greater efficiency. I think mechanical boxes are amazing places and it will be very sad to see them all go but the railway cannot be run on sentiment.

GrimsbyPacer · 14 Jan 2015

RichmondCommu said:
Where the signal box is located is irrelevant. Although it is very sad to see people losing their jobs Network Rail needs to save money through greater efficiency. I think mechanical boxes are amazing places and it will be very sad to see them all go but the railway cannot be run on sentiment.

I think signal boxes are all of historical importance like windmills, castles, churches, mills and should be protected. They will never have a bright future unless they are in use, they'll become damp and broken if left. Network Rail should pay to maintain them even if they don't use them.

HSTEd · 14 Jan 2015

At that point we would be stuck with an archaic railway operated with semaphore signals that does nothing but haemmorhages ever larger amounts of money.

Most signal boxes are near copies of other designs - indeed the railways were one of the first groups to use building prefabrication. There is little need to maintain them all. Certainly not for wasting vast amounts of taxpayers money to do so.

RichmondCommu · 14 Jan 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
I think signal boxes are all of historical importance like windmills, castles, churches, mills and should be protected. They will never have a bright future unless they are in use, they'll become damp and broken if left. Network Rail should pay to maintain them even if they don't use them.

Some of them are listed and some maybe taken on by preservation societies. Some may find other uses as I suggested in another thread a couple of months a go. The signal box at St Albans is a fantastic example of how signal boxes can live on. However as Network Railway is accountable to the tax payer they sadly cannot be expected to maintain every signal box that they intend to close. That would be the economics of a lunatic.

DaveHarries · 14 Jan 2015

RichmondCommu said:
That looks like a lovely little box. I wonder how many levers are still in use. I dare say the majority are painted white Is there any way of finding out the grid reference?

There are quite a few photos of this box, both inside and out.

None of the photos are mine but from those I have seen the frame has 15 levers of which only 2 are painted white as this photo from May 2014 shows. It was taken by the person who took the one I used in my previous post on this topic.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/14102063161

Kirton LS is a nice box to photo. The bridge in this photo.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/14105303995

..... carries Gainsthorpe Road West over the line. If you have software such as Google Earth start it up and search for "DN21 4JH, UK" (without the speech marks) and then zoom in where it comes down. You will see the line going under the road. With the right camera lens, such as the lens that came with my Nikon D3200, it is not difficult to get the full height of the box in when standing on the road bridge shown.

Good luck if you decide to do it.
Dave

WestRiding · 15 Jan 2015

ROCs are about nothing more than cutting the wage bill. The vast majority of signalling schemes do not give the public any improvement in the service. With the exception of north Lincs as per this thread, Most schemes just transfer the same old crap to a new place of control, the same single lines, same worn out junctions, the same signals for that matter. The same 1970s rubbish controlled from a brand new shiney desk in a chrome plated modern building. Not totally in agreement that all will lose their jobs either, given the amount of vacancies at other locations and the amount who will take vouluntary redundancy through choice.

LowLevel · 16 Jan 2015

The way resignallings are going at the moment should see heads rolling at Network Rail - the stupid useless bloody obstacle detectors they specify to their contractors seem to cause more delays than everything else - even when they've been in place a while. It's so frustrating I could smash them all to bits.

Why should me and my passengers be delayed so NR can get rid of some people on the ground, why do we have to deal with them dropping the barriers ridiculously early etc?

Class 170101 · 16 Jan 2015

NR should have fitted the MCB-OD crossings with CCTV linked to the controlling Signalbox so when the OD fails the crossing can be manually operated by the signaller.

carriageline · 16 Jan 2015

Class 170101 said:
NR should have fitted the MCB-OD crossings with CCTV linked to the controlling Signalbox so when the OD fails the crossing can be manually operated by the signaller.

Completely agree with that! My new place with have OD crossings, so will wait and see on how great they are or are not!

Yabbadabba · 16 Jan 2015

carriageline said:
Completely agree with that! My new place with have OD crossings, so will wait and see on how great they are or are not!

The heavy rain we have just had, has an interesting effect on the detection equipment.

carriageline · 16 Jan 2015

Yabbadabba said:
The heavy rain we have just had, has an interesting effect on the detection equipment.

What does it do? Does it give false readings? Do yours have the shutters fitted

Chris125 · 17 Jan 2015

On the issue of MCB-ODs a recent Rail Professional article suggests that they plan to retrofit the earlier installations to bring them up to spec with the most recent installations.

I have heard there have been some issues with the MCB-OD level crossings, is that the case?

Part of my programme encompasses the MCB-OD project (the system that provides automated scanning and detection of obstacles within the level crossing area) and when I came on board in September last year we effectively subsumed the project within the national operating strategy. However, for the last six months or so we have been working very hard with all the various parties to get to a position where we have a far greater clarity around what the MCB-OD solution is. I’m pleased to now say that we have effectively found the answer.

We incorporated MCB-OD into the whole modular signalling element and, following a lot of work with internal and external regulators, have now largely signed it off. The schemes are very clear and where we have had particular difficulty in the past – around Crewe to Shrewsbury and Norwich to Ely – we will be going back to retrofit them to bring them up to the required standard.

Chris

carriageline · 17 Jan 2015

Does anyone know what the problem really was, and how they have fixed it?

AlexS · 17 Jan 2015

As far as I'm concerned they haven't - the 'recent resignalling' such as the GE/GN Joint line are still rubbish.

carriageline · 17 Jan 2015

AlexS said:
As far as I'm concerned they haven't - the 'recent resignalling' such as the GE/GN Joint line are still rubbish.

Reread the above. They have found the problem (and a fix), just wondered what that was!

John Webb · 17 Jan 2015

RichmondCommu said:
Some of them are listed and some maybe taken on by preservation societies. Some may find other uses as I suggested in another thread a couple of months a go. The signal box at St Albans is a fantastic example of how signal boxes can live on. However as Network Railway is accountable to the tax payer they sadly cannot be expected to maintain every signal box that they intend to close. That would be the economics of a lunatic.

Thanks for the compliment! A lot of people seem to agree with you as we had record numbers of visitors last year - topped the 2,300 mark.
For those of you who haven't visited us yet, we're open Sat 24th/Sun 25th Jan 10am-4pm for a local event. We're near to St Albans City station - see http://www.sigbox.co.uk for location map - and other Open Day details if you can't make it this coming weekend.

sheff'd victoria · 20 Jan 2015

Class 170101 said:
Sadly doesn't mean the passenger service over it will improve.

kimflop said:
and you think the service will improve as a result? don't bank on it.

Northern Rail wanted to run Bank Holiday Monday services to Cleethorpes via the Brigg Line, Network Rail refused to put in a 0700-1300 shift in 4 signal boxes.

Alert: Lincolnshire resignalling

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member