Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

Deerfold · 22 Jan 2015

Robertj21a said:
But how many people are really bothered about all these silly points, reward schemes etc. They've never interested me and I doubt that many other normal travellers are particularly concerned. It's just the usual add-on 'tat' that companies think will attract a few more customers (it does, but only a few).

Most of these schemes don't interest me and I find to be more hassle than they're worth. But 4 free first class tickets on the EC network and lounge access for a year (with another year coming up) - something you can't buy access to - appealed to me - if only so I know I'm going to have a seat at Kings X. I doubt the cost to EC was very high - redemtions for non-EC goods and servives seemed to be at a similar rate to Nectar-type schemes and they could choose which services to offer Reward tickets on.

I can see it being far less appealing to those who travel with EC rarely and/or live far from the EC line.

RailUK Forums

petersi · 22 Jan 2015

455driver said:
Possibly,Probably,maybe!

Nobody knows but why would Stagecoach/Virgin give free travel to GoVia staff?

I used to work for SWT (run by Stagecoach) and despite Stagecoach having a 49% stake in Virgin West Coast Trains we got bugger all travel concessions on Virgin West Coast, we did get travel on EMT when Stagecoach took that over (actually a few months later) which was nice though!

Because they share a route so it makes it easier to get staff in the right place particularly in times of disruption. On the great northern side

Deerfold · 22 Jan 2015

petersi said:
Because they share a route so it makes it easier to get staff in the right place particularly in times of disruption. On the great northern side

As it was only at weekends I doubt that was the reasoning.

There's a few companies have reciprical agreements - it usually gets something for your staff without you having to spend. Did EC staff get trips down to Brighton?

My company has a reciprical agreement for cheaper travel on EC services and their staff get a benefit with us. This will not disappear on the date of takeover but does have an expiry date and will have to be renegotiated (or not, depending on VTEC's stance.).

SaveECRewards · 22 Jan 2015

Robertj21a said:
But how many people are really bothered about all these silly points, reward schemes etc. They've never interested me and I doubt that many other normal travellers are particularly concerned. It's just the usual add-on 'tat' that companies think will attract a few more customers (it does, but only a few).

Well if you frequently travel East Coast, then EC Rewards was an excellent scheme. Nectar on the other hand doesn't really excite anyone.

East Coast gave you genuine rewards, 1 point/£ standard and 1.5 points/£ first class. 50 points was enough for first class lounge access, 255 enough for a standard single and 460 points enough for a first class single.

It was so easy to build up rewards, anyone who didn't must have been ignorant of the scheme and thought it was something useless like Nectar.

Read a site like Head for Points and see what people can get when they really take advantage of loyalty schemes. If you assume all reward schemes are silly like Nectar you're really missing out.

Neil Williams said:
I prefer the paid-for benefit schemes like easyJet Plus, personally, provided what they offer is good value. A railway one might usefully include such things as dedicated "maybe reserved" seating, and perhaps an inclusive drink on board. You could even charge a bit more for it and give a discount on fares

Or with increasing numbers of businesses banning First Class travel, how about a subscription that allows unlimited upgrades to First Class for a year? Or a book of good value upgrades for where individuals would like to upgrade themselves out of their own pocket?

Can you remember GNERtime? It wasn't a paid scheme, but it wasn't points based either you had to pass a certain spend threshold to qualify and then you'd receive a book of vouchers. As well as receiving a bunch of free first class travel vouchers it also included buffet vouchers and meal vouchers for the restaurant. You were given a membership card that allowed you and a guest into any of the lounges regardless of ticket or destination it also had other benefits such as 2 for 1 on drinks at the buffet (which combined with the buffet vouchers made it a bargain).

NXEC introduced a similar scheme called escape (higher qualification threshold and slightly fewer benefits) which was adopted by East Coast until they launched the current scheme.

That's one thing missing from the current rewards scheme is extra benefits for the most frequent travellers.

For standard class annual season ticket holders they also had GNER365 which had some complimentary upgrade vouchers in the voucher book.

Aictos · 22 Jan 2015

455driver said:
Possibly,Probably,maybe!

Nobody knows but why would Stagecoach/Virgin give free travel to GoVia staff?

I used to work for SWT (run by Stagecoach) and despite Stagecoach having a 49% stake in Virgin West Coast Trains we got bugger all travel concessions on Virgin West Coast, we did get travel on EMT when Stagecoach took that over (actually a few months later) which was nice though!

Maybe for the same reason GTR give free travel to East Coast staff

after all there is quite a number of East Coast staff who live in Peterborough who find the existing agreement to be very beneficial allowing them travel on GTR services.

At the moment, East Coast staff between Monday to Friday are restricted to Residential Travel only on GTR services while GTR staff are given same but as far as Newark Northgate however on the weekends either staff can use the others services across both networks so a catering team member based in Inverness could travel down to Brighton for free on the weekend and also a Brighton driver could travel to Edinburgh again for free on the weekends.

To answer the OP question, nothing has been said internally to GTR however I guess and this is only a guess that both companies will agree to continue with the agreement as its in both their interests to do so.

As to Virgin Trains East Coast my only gripe with Peterborough is the lack of parking on a weekday and now at weekends, there's plenty of space to build a multi story car park which would be a much more efficient use of the land.

Even at 7am it's difficult to find a parking space so doing something would be good.

Robertj21a · 22 Jan 2015

SaveECRewards said:
Well if you frequently travel East Coast, then EC Rewards was an excellent scheme. Nectar on the other hand doesn't really excite anyone.

East Coast gave you genuine rewards, 1 point/£ standard and 1.5 points/£ first class. 50 points was enough for first class lounge access, 255 enough for a standard single and 460 points enough for a first class single.

It was so easy to build up rewards, anyone who didn't must have been ignorant of the scheme and thought it was something useless like Nectar.

Read a site like Head for Points and see what people can get when they really take advantage of loyalty schemes. If you assume all reward schemes are silly like Nectar you're really missing out.

C.

Thank you, though I was aware of the 'rewards' already.

As I said before, I doubt that many other normal travellers are particularly concerned.

westv · 22 Jan 2015

Did I read somewhere here that someting like 39% of people booking on the EC website were Rewards members? If so I'd say a fair few "normal travellers" were interested in the scheme.

455driver · 22 Jan 2015

petersi said:
Because they share a route so it makes it easier to get staff in the right place particularly in times of disruption. On the great northern side

During disruption staff would be conveyed anyway!

This was a weekend (and bank holiday) perk for the staff because both TOCs were operated by the same parent company, nothing more nothing less!

Aictos · 22 Jan 2015

455driver said:
During disruption staff would be conveyed anyway!

This was a weekend (and bank holiday) perk for the staff because both TOCs were operated by the same parent company, nothing more nothing less!

Not really, GNER and WAGN didn't share same parent company neither did FCC or NXEC or FCC and EC or even GTR and EC

It IS a perk and one I like

387star · 22 Jan 2015

I wonder if the East. coast livery will be stripped of the branding soon..... Now that will be a dull livery

Robertj21a · 22 Jan 2015

westv said:
Did I read somewhere here that someting like 39% of people booking on the EC website were Rewards members? If so I'd say a fair few "normal travellers" were interested in the scheme.

Not aware of that, where was it stated ?

Kite159 · 22 Jan 2015

Why do I picture the new website for Virgin East Coast being pretty much a carbon copy of the website for Virgin West Coast?

transmanche · 22 Jan 2015

Kite159 said:
Why do I picture the new website for Virgin East Coast being pretty much a carbon copy of the website for Virgin West Coast?

I suspect that (initially, at least) it might just be the existing East Coast site, with changes to the stylesheet and some replacement images.

Stats · 22 Jan 2015

westv said:
Did I read somewhere here that someting like 39% of people booking on the EC website were Rewards members? If so I'd say a fair few "normal travellers" were interested in the scheme.

32% of bookings and 59% of spend.

Robertj21a · 22 Jan 2015

Stats said:
32% of bookings and 59% of spend.

This seems abnormally high. I suppose that people booking for an EC train probably have few alternative operators anyway for much of the route - and there's no reason to *not* become a Rewards member (whether you later use the Rewards or not).

Deerfold · 22 Jan 2015

Robertj21a said:
This seems abnormally high. I suppose that people booking for an EC train probably have few alternative operators anyway for much of the route - and there's no reason to *not* become a Rewards member (whether you later use the Rewards or not).

You couldn't be a member of Rewards and opt out of marketing e-mails.

Hadders · 22 Jan 2015

I posted this on the EC Rewards thread.

I don't think this has been mentioned before but there's some very interesting information about the EC rewards Scheme in Directly Operated Railways 2013/14 Annual Report

http://www.directlyoperatedrailways....counts2014.pdf

Quote:

Directly Operated Railways
By the end of the financial year more than 587,000 members had signed up for East Coast’s Rewards scheme. The scheme allows members to redeem points earned for benefits, which may be either tickets for travel, or a variety of third party benefits. Tickets for travel account for the majority of points redeemed and during the year Rewards members accounted for 32% of all bookings through East Coast’s own website, www.eastcoast.co.uk, and 59% of all spend through the channel.

ModernRailways · 22 Jan 2015

Neil Williams said:
Anytime Singles and Returns are to be cut by 10%, are they not?

Anytime tickets, yes. But how many 'normal' passengers purchase them? Anytime tickets are mainly for those travelling on business/company expenses and so couldn't care about the price. I'd go as far as to say that the only 'open' ticket that is commonly used for a long distance journey on the ECML is Super Off-Peak returns. The rest are just too pricey for what you gain (maybe two or three additional services?).

Deerfold · 22 Jan 2015

ModernRailways said:
Anytime tickets, yes. But how many 'normal' passengers purchase them? Anytime tickets are mainly for those travelling on business/company expenses and so couldn't care about the price. I'd go as far as to say that the only 'open' ticket that is commonly used for a long distance journey on the ECML is Super Off-Peak returns. The rest are just too pricey for what you gain (maybe two or three additional services?).

I see plenty of people travelling on those as I travel on the 0700 and 0715 from Leeds (I sit at a table and I'm nosy as people show their tickets or leave them on the table).

cjmillsnun · 22 Jan 2015

jonmorris0844 said:
There's a reason why despite the tiny percentage of involvement, the Virgin brand is going to be so vital to the service.

Yup. When the IEPs have their massive teething problems, Stagecoach emerge unscathed. I have to hand it to Brian Souter on this one. It's very crafty

SaveECRewards · 22 Jan 2015

Hadders said:
I posted this on the EC Rewards thread.

I don't think this has been mentioned before but there's some very interesting information about the EC rewards Scheme in Directly Operated Railways 2013/14 Annual Report

http://www.directlyoperatedrailways....counts2014.pdf

Quote:

I actually thought there'd be more than that signing up for East Coast Rewards but as it shows the members are the highest spenders.

It looks like East Coast wanted to be a one-stop shop and encourage people to book all rail tickets through them and East Coast Rewards was ideal for that as nothing else could compete with the generosity. Now if people really want Nectar points they can just use a FirstGroup booking engine as, unlike Virgin, they award points on all bookings.

Virgin East Coast could end up losing a lot of commission if there's no reason to book through their site.

I've been going through Twitter and collected together a number of Tweets that show the response has been overly negative:
http://saveecrewards.co.uk/your-tweets

I only found one positive Tweet among the negatives, so I'd say very few found it a positive development, the majority is split between annoyed and indifferent.

Those that are indifferent would probably use the site anyway even if there was no loyalty scheme but those annoyed may book elsewhere.

jon0844 · 22 Jan 2015

When FCC went, I switched to FGW to buy tickets that were below the £22(?) minimum on EC.

Now I use FGW exclusively as I am not sure what's happening (or wasn't). Nectar points are pretty crap though, and I'd rather go with the site that is easiest to use to make my life easier (and save time) than worry about earning points worth so little.

Bletchleyite · 23 Jan 2015

ModernRailways said:
Anytime tickets, yes. But how many 'normal' passengers purchase them? Anytime tickets are mainly for those travelling on business/company expenses and so couldn't care about the price. I'd go as far as to say that the only 'open' ticket that is commonly used for a long distance journey on the ECML is Super Off-Peak returns.

The price of which is really a matter for the Government, as they are regulated. (The TOCs can reduce them but they can't increase beyond the specified figure, as a result of which most TOCs take the full allowed increase).

Neil

CockneySparrow · 23 Jan 2015

ModernRailways said:
Anytime tickets, yes. But how many 'normal' passengers purchase them? Anytime tickets are mainly for those travelling on business/company expenses and so couldn't care about the price. I'd go as far as to say that the only 'open' ticket that is commonly used for a long distance journey on the ECML is Super Off-Peak returns. The rest are just too pricey for what you gain (maybe two or three additional services?).

You would be surprised how many people as a whole buy anytime tickets especially those who don't know what they are doing, some just choose the expensive one so they don't get in trouble
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

jonmorris0844 said:
When FCC went, I switched to FGW to buy tickets that were below the £22(?) minimum on EC.

Now I use FGW exclusively as I am not sure what's happening (or wasn't). Nectar points are pretty crap though, and I'd rather go with the site that is easiest to use to make my life easier (and save time) than worry about earning points worth so little.

I have gone with Scotrail instead, FGW doesn't sell some of the tickets I want

backontrack · 24 Jan 2015

Is that London-Doncaster-Wakefield Westgate-Dewsbury-Huddersfield? Bad news for Grand Central, as Virgin plan to serve Teesside and Sunderland as well.

Iskra · 24 Jan 2015

backontrack said:
Is that London-Doncaster-Wakefield Westgate-Dewsbury-Huddersfield? Bad news for Grand Central, as Virgin plan to serve Teesside and Sunderland as well.

Huddersfield-Dewsbury-Leeds-Doncaster-South. Is what we know.

Personally I don't think a reversal at Leeds to serve Wakefield makes any sense, so it could be just Leeds-Doncaster, however if it is just an extension of a Leeds service the reversal may happen anyway.

I don't think the West Yorkshire Grand Central services will be too badly affected as the East Coast service is effectively a token one.

KGX · 24 Jan 2015

It was great whilst it lasted EastCoast. I am not looking forward to the forthcoming down grade to Virgin.
1. I will not book a single ticket through a site that uses the God awful trainline booking engine.
2. Discontinuation of a meaningful rewards scheme. Nectar?! Why even bother.
3. Website next to go? East Coast site is excellent, no doubt cost a bomb, scrapped? Or upgraded. Much like the 'improvements' when Thameslink took over.
4. Will I be able to select a seat? Not if they use trainline.
5. Food/drink offering in first class is way too good. I'm sure that'll be cutback.

Only positive I've heard so far is that they're stipulating a buffet car on the IEP.

Such a shame. EastCoast were great.

graham43404 · 24 Jan 2015

KGX said:
It was great whilst it lasted EastCoast. I am not looking forward to the forthcoming down grade to Virgin.
1. I will not book a single ticket through a site that uses the God awful trainline booking engine.
2. Discontinuation of a meaningful rewards scheme. Nectar?! Why even bother.
3. Website next to go? East Coast site is excellent, no doubt cost a bomb, scrapped? Or upgraded. Much like the 'improvements' when Thameslink took over.
4. Will I be able to select a seat? Not if they use trainline.
5. Food/drink offering in first class is way too good. I'm sure that'll be cutback.

Only positive I've heard so far is that they're stipulating a buffet car on the IEP.

Such a shame. EastCoast were great.

Can't argue with any of that, East Coast have always been great when we have travelled with them, be it Standard or First Class. So much so that we actually divert away from Virgin West Coast to head over to Leeds for our trips to London.

al.currie93 · 24 Jan 2015

KGX said:
It was great whilst it lasted EastCoast. I am not looking forward to the forthcoming down grade to Virgin.
1. I will not book a single ticket through a site that uses the God awful trainline booking engine.
2. Discontinuation of a meaningful rewards scheme. Nectar?! Why even bother.
3. Website next to go? East Coast site is excellent, no doubt cost a bomb, scrapped? Or upgraded. Much like the 'improvements' when Thameslink took over.
4. Will I be able to select a seat? Not if they use trainline.
5. Food/drink offering in first class is way too good. I'm sure that'll be cutback.

Only positive I've heard so far is that they're stipulating a buffet car on the IEP.

Such a shame. EastCoast were great.

It's a great shame, I was very fond of East Coast, there was no reason to get rid of them! And I won't go into my hatred of Virgin...

jon0844 · 24 Jan 2015

How ironic after the WCML fiasco that we're now wishing Virgin hadn't won and DOR had been able to stay on...

Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

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