Commuter coaches

notadriver · 22 Jan 2015

Does anyone here use a dedicated commuter coach service to get to work instead of using the train? We often hear of trains running late so how well do the coaches do and how comfortable are they ?

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite · 22 Jan 2015

Nat Ex tried one from MK, I used it once, very comfortable (they used a brand new Caetano Levante with the leather seats, wifi and excellent legroom) but taking over 2 hours compared with less than an hour by train it really couldn't win and was withdrawn. Though I believe some people do commute using the existing Nat Ex coaches, particularly those living near the M1 Coachway rather than the station (e.g. in Broughton).

Neil

trentside · 22 Jan 2015

I've always been pretty curious about these - I'd imagine that the King's Ferry coaches coming from Kent might have some new takers given the problems at London Bridge. Having a look at the King's Ferry website suggests that an annual season is £2,200, which must represent a bargain over an equivalent rail season.

http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/fares-and-tickets

Bletchleyite · 22 Jan 2015

The advantage for those coming from Kent and Essex is that they enter London on the right side for most of the jobs in the City. Whereas coming from the north or west you spend nearly an hour crawling in London traffic.

I think that must be why it's those ones that have done well.

Neil

Antman · 22 Jan 2015

trentside said:
I've always been pretty curious about these - I'd imagine that the King's Ferry coaches coming from Kent might have some new takers given the problems at London Bridge. Having a look at the King's Ferry website suggests that an annual season is £2,200, which must represent a bargain over an equivalent rail season.

http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/fares-and-tickets

Another big advantage of these coaches is they go via the Blackwall Tunnel and serve Canary Wharf.

ValleyLines142 · 22 Jan 2015

There are some in Bristol (C5 and C6) that serve Aztec West, MoD Filton, Parkway station and Weston-Super-Mare and Portishead. Rail users are frequently complaining to First Great Western on Twitter saying that the coach is much preferred as they have free wifi, leather seats, they are cheaper and they are always on time!

Statto · 22 Jan 2015

Deleted

Marc · 22 Jan 2015

DanTrainMan185 said:
There are some in Bristol (C5 and C6) that serve Aztec West, MoD Filton, Parkway station and Weston-Super-Mare and Portishead. Rail users are frequently complaining to First Great Western on Twitter saying that the coach is much preferred as they have free wifi, leather seats, they are cheaper and they are always on time!

Passneger loadings suggest other wise!

ValleyLines142 · 22 Jan 2015

Marc said:
Passneger loadings suggest other wise!

To be honest I don't think it's very well promoted, otherwise it'd be great!

extendedpaul · 22 Jan 2015

trentside said:
I've always been pretty curious about these - I'd imagine that the King's Ferry coaches coming from Kent might have some new takers given the problems at London Bridge. Having a look at the King's Ferry website suggests that an annual season is £2,200, which must represent a bargain over an equivalent rail season.

http://www.thekingsferry.co.uk/commuter-services/fares-and-tickets

I tried Kings Ferry for a few weeks in the mid 1990s between annual season tickets from Medway to London. The weekly price was under half the rail equivalent at the time, it left from closer to home and dropped me closer to my office than the train, but the actual journey took twice as long. I found the 3-4 hours daily travel time very tedious, the leg room wasn't great and for me the coach was usually too warm.

notadriver · 22 Jan 2015

What was the total train journey time ?

extendedpaul · 23 Jan 2015

My rail commute via Victoria was 10 minute walk to station, hour on train, 10 minute walk to office. By coach it was 2 minute walks either end but up to two hours journey.

King's Ferry actually provide a top notch service and have a fine reputation in Kent. Not so many people use it to Victoria as that's at the end of most routes but for locations in the City the journey time is not much different to using the train. They also do books of single tickets which are very useful for people working part time in London.

Antman · 23 Jan 2015

extendedpaul said:
My rail commute via Victoria was 10 minute walk to station, hour on train, 10 minute walk to office. By coach it was 2 minute walks either end but up to two hours journey.

King's Ferry actually provide a top notch service and have a fine reputation in Kent. Not so many people use it to Victoria as that's at the end of most routes but for locations in the City the journey time is not much different to using the train. They also do books of single tickets which are very useful for people working part time in London.

Indeed, a friend of mine lives in Rainham (Kent) and works at Canary Wharf and he's full of praise for the service Kings Ferry provide, he said if had to do it by train he'd get another job.

There are also similar commuter services operated by Reliance, Clarkes Coaches and Chalkwell.

Martin2012 · 23 Jan 2015

Can the 462 Emersons Green-Bristol City centre(operated by South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach) be considered a commuter coach service? Given the fact lots of people use it to commute to work and it often gets operated by coaches?

Hophead · 23 Jan 2015

You also need to look at the geography of the Medway towns - the M2 runs past, and many of the estates (for Chatham in particular) are close by. The railway, meanwhile, loops the other way en-route to Gillingham & Rainham.

See also Oxford (railway to the west; housing, motorway & London all to the east).

83G/84D · 23 Jan 2015

Whilst King's Ferry may provide an excellent service etc what most commuters want is a reliable service be it train, bus, coach or whatever. As with all of these there are so many factors that can affect the reliability of the service provided some outside the control of the providers of said service.

I understand the "weighing up" of cost, journey time, service reliability, convenience etc but at the end of the day everything is "in the lap of the gods" and it is a lottery every time you use said forms of transport.

As reliability / timekeeping cannot be guaranteed in any form of transport used for a journey what is the main other factor that people consider in deciding which method of transport to use for a journey?

notadriver · 23 Jan 2015

My guess is there are simply far more train departures than coach departures (so turn up and go) even late into the night for example.

telstarbox · 24 Jan 2015

Antman said:
Indeed, a friend of mine lives in Rainham (Kent) and works at Canary Wharf and he's full of praise for the service Kings Ferry provide, he said if had to do it by train he'd get another job.

There are also similar commuter services operated by Reliance, Clarkes Coaches and Chalkwell.

On the other hand lots of passengers come off Kent trains at Lewisham and Greenwich for the DLR and most of those are heading for Canary Wharf.

Antman · 24 Jan 2015

telstarbox said:
On the other hand lots of passengers come off Kent trains at Lewisham and Greenwich for the DLR and most of those are heading for Canary Wharf.

No direct trains from Rainham to either of those stations.

On the coach you are guaranteed a seat, you can sit in comfort and use a laptop, door to door without any changing, it is normally quicker and it is certainly much cheaper.

Oh you can also board without a ticket, a 'conductor' comes round the coach selling them (no penalty fare

) and the doors don't close 30 seconds before departure time

Busaholic · 24 Jan 2015

Antman said:
No direct trains from Rainham to either of those stations.

On the coach you are guaranteed a seat, you can sit in comfort and use a laptop, door to door without any changing, it is normally quicker and it is certainly much cheaper.

Oh you can also board without a ticket, a 'conductor' comes round the coach selling them (no penalty fare) and the doors don't close 30 seconds before departure time

I can quite see why someone from Rainham working at Canary Wharf would commute by coach, particularly if working reasonably social hours. The picture may change in time, both with Crossrail and the extension of the Gillingham terminators to Rainham, which will probably happen simultaneously.

Regarding Kings Ferry, I see their coaches parked near my home in Penzance in season and they are always sparkling and a real credit to the company. Come to think of it, an express coach from here to London might not take much longer than the train, ignoring comfort stops!

Antman · 24 Jan 2015

Busaholic said:
I can quite see why someone from Rainham working at Canary Wharf would commute by coach, particularly if working reasonably social hours. The picture may change in time, both with Crossrail and the extension of the Gillingham terminators to Rainham, which will probably happen simultaneously.

Regarding Kings Ferry, I see their coaches parked near my home in Penzance in season and they are always sparkling and a real credit to the company. Come to think of it, an express coach from here to London might not take much longer than the train, ignoring comfort stops!

Many of them are parked at Millwall football ground between the peaks.

I believe Kings Ferry are part of the National Express group now?

Busaholic · 24 Jan 2015

Antman said:
Many of them are parked at Millwall football ground between the peaks.

I believe Kings Ferry are part of the National Express group now?

Absolutely right: I'd forgotten that. Explains their ability to keep their fleet so up-to-date. They've really worked on getting those commuter services right: Maidstone & District didn't manage to keep going with their Invictaway brand, possibly not willing to absorb losses for long enough to get the brand really established. Of course, the increased fares and slower journeys on the train services (in the latter case with the exception of HS1) have played into Kings Ferry's hands too.

Abpj17 · 24 Jan 2015

The Kings Ferry coaches always look nice (have seen through Canary Wharf and the city).

My dad used to use the GreenLine service from Luton/Dunstable - if you can keep to starting and leaving at fixed times most days it's pretty good and cheap. He mostly worked in West London - near US embassy, so it wasn't too long.

I used the Marshall's similar service when I first started work around 2000 and lived with parents. Usually got a double seat so could sleep lol. I got the once a day extended service into the suburbs of Dunstable so the passengers basically all recognised each other. Apart from issues with the M1/M25 it was an excellent and great value service.

Used the tube when I rented in London for a couple of years.

Then bought a house in Luton. And have used train ever since. The coach is warmer/better value but neither company comes near enough to my house, and even then it is a once a day service. As I've got more senior, if I want to do the interesting stuff, then a once a day 9 - 5 service doesn't work for me (I'm not yet senior enough for meetings to revolve around my diary!). It's simple too inflexible - in terms of start - end times, and in busy or quiet periods, for working longer or shorter days. So I'd end up getting the train sometimes anyway. And because of the huge annual discount for annual train tickets, it's overall better to go by train (not withstanding all the delays/limited comfort etc.). I usually travel outside rush hour and get on the services before they fill up so will almost always get a seat on the train. I also work out in the city/docklands which coming from the north means a long coach journey within london or swapping to the tube/dlr.

Busaholic · 25 Jan 2015

Abpj17 said:
The Kings Ferry coaches always look nice (have seen through Canary Wharf and the city).

My dad used to use the GreenLine service from Luton/Dunstable - if you can keep to starting and leaving at fixed times most days it's pretty good and cheap. He mostly worked in West London - near US embassy, so it wasn't too long.

I used the Marshall's similar service when I first started work around 2000 and lived with parents. Usually got a double seat so could sleep lol. I got the once a day extended service into the suburbs of Dunstable so the passengers basically all recognised each other. Apart from issues with the M1/M25 it was an excellent and great value service.

Used the tube when I rented in London for a couple of years.

Then bought a house in Luton. And have used train ever since. The coach is warmer/better value but neither company comes near enough to my house, and even then it is a once a day service. As I've got more senior, if I want to do the interesting stuff, then a once a day 9 - 5 service doesn't work for me (I'm not yet senior enough for meetings to revolve around my diary!). It's simple too inflexible - in terms of start - end times, and in busy or quiet periods, for working longer or shorter days. So I'd end up getting the train sometimes anyway. And because of the huge annual discount for annual train tickets, it's overall better to go by train (not withstanding all the delays/limited comfort etc.). I usually travel outside rush hour and get on the services before they fill up so will almost always get a seat on the train. I also work out in the city/docklands which coming from the north means a long coach journey within london or swapping to the tube/dlr.

You've highlighted all the reasons why it is now impossible for a comprehensive service of coaches to meet the needs of commuters to function from the inner Home Counties into London. The old days of 9 to 5.30 or near variants thereof have gone for most and may never return. It is an expensive resource to run a coach into London in the morning and then effectively having it idle until a return trip in the afternoon/evening. You must either park it somewhere, a costly business, or run it back 'dead' and hope when it needs to be sent out again in the afternoon that the Blackwall Tunnel is not closed, or whatever, meaning it's not there to meet its expectant passengers for the journey home. It's a much more personal service somehow than the train, and if it fails too often, often for reasons totally beyond the operator's control, it may get taken personally by the passenger whereas late or non-running trains may just merit a shrug of the shoulders. Irrational, I know, but we live in an irrational world, to our cost.

Abpj17 · 25 Jan 2015

Busaholic said:
You've highlighted all the reasons why it is now impossible for a comprehensive service of coaches to meet the needs of commuters to function from the inner Home Counties into London.

...

It's a much more personal service somehow than the train, and if it fails too often, often for reasons totally beyond the operator's control, it may get taken personally by the passenger whereas late or non-running trains may just merit a shrug of the shoulders. Irrational, I know, but we live in an irrational world, to our cost.

Of course

I've been familiar with the factors behind the choices my father and I made pretty much since pre-school!

I disagree on two points though. There is of course the medway towns exception into the docklands/city - these seem far more viable than other services and relatively competitive with the train. I do wonder, however, if this will continue to be true post-crossrail and LBG changes work through.

On the second, while it is more personal, it's actually the opposite. The TOC gets blamed for everything - including NR faults and delays are far more frequent (certainly on Thameslink). I've never actually experienced a failure of the coach services - they turn up when they say they do and the conductors/drivers are lovely. The only issues we really experienced were traffic jams and motorway closures - obviously not the operators fault and rightly or wrongly, peeking out the window for flashing blue lights, trying to work out the cause of the delay and how far ahead it is etc. is relatively collegiate - and the drivers are pretty good and will know the sneaky routes around the motorway as necessary (and you're warm and comfortable) - and simpler to understand than the many complications of the railway. This of course partly reflects that they are peak-only services (at least for the ones I got) and so tight turnaround delays/knock-on effects don't exist.

Flamingo · 25 Jan 2015

Busaholic said:
It's a much more personal service somehow than the train, and if it fails too often, often for reasons totally beyond the operator's control, it may get taken personally by the passenger whereas late or non-running trains may just merit a shrug of the shoulders.

You have obviously never talked to a commuter, looked at any of the documentaries about TOC's or read the Twitter feed of any TOC for the screams of horror, pain and indignation that go up over delays outside the control of the TOC.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110225

starrymarkb · 25 Jan 2015

Busaholic said:
You've highlighted all the reasons why it is now impossible for a comprehensive service of coaches to meet the needs of commuters to function from the inner Home Counties into London. The old days of 9 to 5.30 or near variants thereof have gone for most and may never return. It is an expensive resource to run a coach into London in the morning and then effectively having it idle until a return trip in the afternoon/evening. You must either park it somewhere, a costly business, or run it back 'dead' and hope when it needs to be sent out again in the afternoon that the Blackwall Tunnel is not closed, or whatever, meaning it's not there to meet its expectant passengers for the journey home. It's a much more personal service somehow than the train, and if it fails too often, often for reasons totally beyond the operator's control, it may get taken personally by the passenger whereas late or non-running trains may just merit a shrug of the shoulders. Irrational, I know, but we live in an irrational world, to our cost.

I know NatEx will often use a Kings Ferry vehicle on a short NatEx working between the peaks (though there is the risk of delays meaning the coach doesn't get back in time for it's commuter run)

deltic · 25 Jan 2015

Some of the commuter coaches do school and short tourist trips in London during the inter-peak period.

radamfi · 25 Jan 2015

The Kent commuter coach firms sometimes use their vehicles for private hire work during the day. The Clarkes fleet seems to be superb with many Tourismos which are well turned out.

Busaholic · 25 Jan 2015

Flamingo said:
You have obviously never talked to a commuter, looked at any of the documentaries about TOC's or read the Twitter feed of any TOC for the screams of horror, pain and indignation that go up over delays outside the control of the TOC.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110225

I obviously did not express myself very well. The point I was trying to make (badly) was that if a coach turns up an hour late, for whatever reason, if anyone is to get it in the neck, it's that coach driver, in the absence of anyone else, and there'll be a group of 30,40 or 50 who probably travel in each other's company on an almost daily basis and influence each other's vtews on the situation. In the case of the train, if you're at London Bridge, Victoria or Paddington, there are many railway staff to collectively share the ire of passengers before they ever get on a train, which may or may not have a poor conductor getting it in the neck too (tho only from Padd in my scenario). If this is a situation occurring almost every day, like at London Bridge at the moment, I cannot believe that quiet resignation does not come over a good proportion of the passengers with a 'what do you expect?' shrug, taking it out on someone else at the other end of a mobile phone rather than a railway employee.

I might add that I commuted by train for a decade and a good part of two others, at one time for over four hours per day, and in a time (the seventies) when lightning strikes were sometimes call ed when you'd got to work.Wondering how you were going to get home to Sittingbourne from Central London, or being deposited at Dartford, were not isolated occurrences, and no commuter coaches to (possibly) fall back on either.

Commuter coaches

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