Is there a better way of choosing seats on Virgin? On their website there is no option for an airline style seat, rather then a 4 table. I've spent the best part of the morning going backwards and forwards so it gives different seats. It just seems pot luck what it gives.
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Better way of choosing seats on Virgin?
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The short answer appears to be to go to a Ticket Office or book through a WebTIS-powered site, though that does have the disadvantage of not being able to book one of the "web only" Off-Peak Singles (SVH) in one direction...
The option is usually not to tick the 'table' box. Always gives me an airline seat, but picks the non-window ones first. But if you keep adding journeys eventually you get something reasonable then you can delete the ones you don't want before paying.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
While I guess it makes slightly less efficient use of the seating, I do think it's about time we had a national seat selection system available to all the TISs. If I could select my seat I'd be more likely to book.
(Ideally the seat maps would show the windows unlike airline ones, though)
Neil
andrewkeith5
Member
Absolutely. Seat reservations might actually be taken seriously if it were possible to reserve a seat that you wanted to sit in!
I would propose that this should be made available, but I would also propose that selecting your own seat should either only be available to flexible ticket holders (as a bonus for having paid more for the same service), or for a nominal fee. Or even both, but charge Advance ticket holders more (say £5 for an advance reservation of your choice, or £1.50 for any other ticket type reservation of your choice, otherwise we'll put your reservation anywhere for free - which, lets face it, is what you get now - the selections you make have no influence on which seat is allocated IMHE).
My reasoning behind charging Advance ticket holders more is that I still don't think it's fair that the people who pay the least have the greatest guarantee of travelling - see Virgin Trains on almost any public holiday, but particularly christmas.
With the sort of technology Hitachi are proposing on some of their demonstrators, flexible ticket holders could even book a seat on more than one train (say £2 for 2 trains), then check into their seat when they get on - otherwise it gets made available to anyone after leaving the station.
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PermitToTravel
Established Member
There's a system available to all the TISes, but TOCs don't have seating diagrams for each others' trains. Telesales and stations will let you book by seat number if you want though.
pne
Member
Thats how it works in Germany, pretty much: you can reserve for as many trains as you like (paying a fee for each reservation), and reservations expire 15 minutes after the train leaves the first station named on the reservation. (So if you decide to start short, your reservation will probably have expired already, unless it's within 15 minutes' travel of the place you had booked from!)
Depending on the train, this may result in an electronic display changing value (either going blank, or listing the next reservation for that seat), or it might be a guard going through occasionally and removing paper slips for reservations that have "expired".
andrewkeith5
Member
Ah, didn't know there was already somewhere doing it! It would work well, I think.
The reason I suggested it was after reading an article in Modern Railways talking about the new Hitachi demonstrator trains - I believe the seat reservation system in the AT200 greeted passengers by name, and had the facility to require passengers to scan an NFC tag in their ticket to 'activate' their seat reservation and effectively claim the seat.
If there isn't something that already does it that way, it wouldn't be hard to implement one (well, maybe harder for the railway industry...)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That can't be hard to sort out simply by having a single database of them somewhere.
Neil
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It's effectively how it works in the UK as well. While there is technically a penalty for occupying a reserved seat, provided you move when requested it isn't actually an issue, and it is normal practice to take such a seat if it is not claimed by the owner at the stated station.
No need for any technology at all.
Neil
andrewkeith5
Member
You miss the point of the discussion - where I proposed that those who hold flexible tickets should be allowed to make reservations on more than one service that they are likely to use. After all,the point of flexible tickets is to allow flexibility. Therefore the system becomes a little more complicated because the unused reservations have to be removed - but not so complicated that it couldn't be done, as proven by the fact that it's done in Germany.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though that practically differs little from the present situation, where holders of flexible tickets can make one reservation, but are at liberty to, and often do, ignore it. Particularly as I'd think only some people would take advantage of your proposal, particularly if it were (as it should be, to avoid misuse) for a fee per reservation.
In practice a reservation sort of means "don't sit here unless there are no other seats, and if there are you might have to move, but probably not".
Neil
andrewkeith5
Member
That is how the reservation system currently works, but my argument is that it isn't how it should work and neither is it how it is designed to work.
There are flaws in the reservation system in that people paying the cheapest prices (Advance Fares) must have reservations, whilst those who don't can optionally have them. However as the option to reserve is poorly publicised, and the reservation system doesn't work as it should (because of various factors including the fact that people don't sit in their reserved seats, don't travel when they have a reservation, or just don't know they can reserve) reservations aren't really effective and the whole system doesn't really work.
The thread is going somewhat off topic if I continue to argue my point on that subject - but the original point was that by allowing people to reserve their chosen seat, instead of giving people seats they don't really want to sit in, people are more likely to use their reservations and so social enforcement of the rules becomes greater. Similarly, that also makes formal enforcement of seat reservations easier. Better enforcement of the rules makes for a more effective system, which means people with flexible tickets might actually be inclined to book a seat. Building on that, offering new products to people on flexible tickets would most likely further increase the effectiveness of the scheme by implementing fairly simple procedures/rules and utilising available technology.
Just because something appears to work alright doesn't mean it can't be made to work better!
Kite159
Veteran Member
Give me "Reserved from A to D" on the displays rather than "reserved", at least any passengers boarding at say station B can see that it's an empty seat and the person it was reserved for is either a no-show or picked somewhere else to sit.
andrewkeith5
Member
I believe the Voyagers did that when Virgin were in charge, I think Pendolinos still do but cant be sure. Certainly makes things a lot easier!
craigwilson
Member
The Pendolinos, IIRC, don't display "Reserved from Stoke to Milton Keynes Central" (for example), but would instead display "Available until Stoke".
andrewkeith5
Member
Ah that sounds about right. I'm sure one or the other used to (I'm thinking it was Voyagers) display "Reserved from X to Y"
PermitToTravel
Established Member
No
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I didn't know it was possible to buy 'web only' off-peak singles on Virgin. I tried to do this recently and it didn't allow me to on the NR journey planner, and this was confirmed by Virgin's call centre.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This was referring to Saver Half Returns, i.e. off-peak singles at half the return price which are sold only from Trainline based sites including VT's own when bought with another ticket for the other leg.
Neil
All Line Rover
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Not this old chestnut! Many intercity Advance fares are far from cheap. A First Class Advance fare on the 17:00 Euston to Manchester costs £200, no matter how far one books in advance. A First Anytime Single costs £235. That latter fare allows access to the Euston First Class lounge at any time (unlike the Advance fare) and has the significant benefit of being valid on any train. Which is the more expensive fare? I'd say it is the Advance fare!
And a season ticket, which is a flexible ticket and so according to your logic must cost orders of magnitude more than an Advance ticket, actually costs, wait for it... £48.39 per journey.
DeeGee
Member
Indeed!
Buy the Anytime Single. Change plans. Travel on the next train. Choose not to travel at all. Refund for the total cost of a tenner.
Buy the Advance. Need to cancel the journey. Lose 200 quid. Get delayed on a bus, or in a meeting so need to get next train. Lose 200 quid AND have to pay £230.
And you know what? Book far enough in advance and you can actually have a seat reservation with your gold-plated First Anytime Single. Which apparently is the only benefit of getting an advance.
So what's this good deal that the Advance holders are getting now?
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