Waiting in the cold at Euston

PeterY · 5 Feb 2015

This afternoon I caught the 15.54 London Midland service out of Euston. Despite the lights and no doubt heating being on inside the train, passengers were left standing on the platform until two minutes before departure.

I assume this is normal London Midland customer service.

RailUK Forums

Geezertronic · 5 Feb 2015

PeterY said:
This afternoon I caught the 15.54 London Midland service out of Euston. Despite the lights and no doubt heating being on inside the train, passengers were left standing on the platform until two minutes before departure.

I assume this is normal London Midland customer service.

Just wait six months and you'll probably be complaining about having to stand on a hot sweltering platform while the air-conditioned train stands at the platform... :roll:

Michael.Y · 5 Feb 2015

PeterY said:
This afternoon I caught the 15.54 London Midland service out of Euston. Despite the lights and no doubt heating being on inside the train, passengers were left standing on the platform until two minutes before departure.

I assume this is normal London Midland customer service.

Until the person in charge of the train or a similarly qualified member of platform staff deems it safe and necessary for you to get on the train, you will not be permitted entry to it. How do you know that there wasn't some other kind of fault not immediately evident to your naked eyes that needed rectifying before the train was ready for service? What would you rather, get on a train and go or get on a train, get settled and then be told you have to get off again when something borked can't be unborked?

Real Time Trains tells me it left on time. What more do you want?

yorkie · 5 Feb 2015

Michael.Y said:
Real Time Trains tells me it left on time. What more do you want?

I expect a train on a long distance route to be available for boarding from a major London terminal at least 10 minutes before departure, that hardly seems unreasonable. Of course if there were delays to services then you would understand why it might not be possible on particular occasions.

Howardh · 5 Feb 2015

No idea - but I would have assumed you wouldn't be let on the train unless there was a guard present? If so, could he/she not have been available (break/change of shifts etc)?

Tony2215 · 5 Feb 2015

Geezertronic said:
Just wait six months and you'll probably be complaining about having to stand on a hot sweltering platform while the air-conditioned train stands at the platform... :roll:

When do we ever get this "hot sweltering" weather?

HarleyDavidson · 5 Feb 2015

When the cow jumps over the moon!

causton · 5 Feb 2015

Tony2215 said:
When do we ever get this "hot sweltering" weather?

Check the Evening Standard, it will tell you when!

Unfortunately some places seem to be worse for this than others, and Euston is one of the worst! I caught the 1549 and the platform was announced and the doors unlocked at 1545. Luckily everyone already knew it would go off the same platform as the 1546 and many were waiting there already!

DiscoStu · 5 Feb 2015

Michael.Y said:
Until the person in charge of the train or a similarly qualified member of platform staff deems it safe and necessary for you to get on the train, you will not be permitted entry to it. How do you know that there wasn't some other kind of fault not immediately evident to your naked eyes that needed rectifying before the train was ready for service? What would you rather, get on a train and go or get on a train, get settled and then be told you have to get off again when something borked can't be unborked?

Real Time Trains tells me it left on time. What more do you want?

I can tell you there most likely wasn't a fault ... how? because they do it all the time! The amount of times I go down to the platform at Euston and you are left standing there waiting whilst the crowd gets bigger, and then when the doors do finally open (usually about a minute or two before departure time) there is a mad rush to grab a seat and any food you've brought with you to eat on the train has gone stone cold.

Irritating isn't the word

Kite159 · 5 Feb 2015

2 minutes to board a London Midland service at Euston, that sounds about right.

Daz28 · 5 Feb 2015

Howardh said:
No idea - but I would have assumed you wouldn't be let on the train unless there was a guard present? If so, could he/she not have been available (break/change of shifts etc)?

Not a problem at Charing Cross where it is standard practice for SouthEastern drivers to leave the train with all doors unlocked. Passengers will start boarding, cleaners will run through emptying bins and collecting rubbish. A few minutes before departure the driver will turn up, do his checks, program the PIS, close the doors then leave.

Why is it so difficult elsewhere?

theageofthetra · 5 Feb 2015

I would have thought that TOC's could risk falling foul of DDA or age descrimination legislation if they are allowing such a short time to get to the train. Do staff at Euston, if requested, allow those with mobility issues to wait at the bottom of the ramp or by their allocated coach door? At airports those who have requested assistance are often taken to the gate (or at least the correct part of the airport), before the gate is announced on the screens to the rest of the travellers.

PeterY · 5 Feb 2015

I did notice others waiting on another platform outside a LM train. It's the first time I've encountered this and today it was a chilly wind. In the past, passengers have been allowed to sit in comfort and wait for the allotted departure time. I just hope that other TOC's don't follow suit.

I now know why I prefer the slower Met route back to Watford, more civilised.

PHILIPE · 5 Feb 2015

`It's quite probable that the traincrew would be taking their break so until their break was finished there would be nobody to open the doors.

Bevan Price · 5 Feb 2015

PeterY said:
I did notice others waiting on another platform outside a LM train. It's the first time I've encountered this and today it was a chilly wind. In the past, passengers have been allowed to sit in comfort and wait for the allotted departure time. I just hope that other TOC's don't follow suit.

I now know why I prefer the slower Met route back to Watford, more civilised.

Possibly waiting for the crew to arrive after break or starting work ? A similar thing also happens at Liverpool Lime St. (Or the train crew may be present, but there is a second train at the head of the platform, and they don't want passengers to board the wrong train.)

Busaholic · 5 Feb 2015

Tony2215 said:
When do we ever get this "hot sweltering" weather?

Famous Summer of 1976, working in an office building on Euston Road, I used to go and stand in Euston Station booking hall at lunchtimes for its wonderful air conditioning, which wasn't provided by my employers.

Statto · 5 Feb 2015

Bevan Price said:
Possibly waiting for the crew to arrive after break or starting work ? A similar thing also happens at Liverpool Lime St. (Or the train crew may be present, but there is a second train at the head of the platform, and they don't want passengers to board the wrong train.)

Thats case when waiting for TPE or EMT service, they have about a 20 minute turnaround, that includes passengers alighting from the train, cleaning the train of litter ecc, putting in seat reservations, by the time that's finished it's about 5 minutes before departure, that it becomes the cavalry charge when passengers are finally allowed to board to get a decent seat if they don't hold reservations.

oversteer · 5 Feb 2015

Seems to be a usual occurrence on the late night services, especially when there has been a 45 minute gap between services and most of it is spent waiting for the train to be opened ...

trainophile · 5 Feb 2015

Same thing happens at Birmingham New Street. The Arrivals/Departures boards in the concourse often show "Arrived" against the LM Liverpool Lime Street train up to half an hour before it is due out, so everyone troops down to the relevant platform, only to find the doors locked and no staff in sight. A guard appears about five minutes before departure time, and releases the doors with three or four minutes to go.

I can understand that they can't open the doors until staff are present, but why show "Arrived" on the information system when people might as well wait in the comparative warmth of the concourse?

D1009 · 5 Feb 2015

trainophile said:
I can understand that they can't open the doors until staff are present, but why show "Arrived" on the information system when people might as well wait in the comparative warmth of the concourse?

At places like New Street or Euston with platform staff there continuously, there is absolutely no reason not to allow passengers to board trains which are ready for boarding.

rdeez · 5 Feb 2015

trainophile said:
Same thing happens at Birmingham New Street. The Arrivals/Departures boards in the concourse often show "Arrived" against the LM Liverpool Lime Street train up to half an hour before it is due out, so everyone troops down to the relevant platform, only to find the doors locked and no staff in sight. A guard appears about five minutes before departure time, and releases the doors with three or four minutes to go.

I can understand that they can't open the doors until staff are present, but why show "Arrived" on the information system when people might as well wait in the comparative warmth of the concourse?

The exception seems to be LM's Hereford services. Every time I've turned up fairly early for one of these, usually in the early evening, it's been unlocked, engines and lights off and no staff. If it's fine with these services, why not with others?

HowardGWR · 5 Feb 2015

rdeez said:
The exception seems to be LM's Hereford services. Every time I've turned up fairly early for one of these, usually in the early evening, it's been unlocked, engines and lights off and no staff. If it's fine with these services, why not with others?

IF that's 'fine' what would be 'not so good'?

DownSouth · 5 Feb 2015

Geezertronic said:
Just wait six months and you'll probably be complaining about having to stand on a hot sweltering platform while the air-conditioned train stands at the platform... :roll:

You wouldn't know a hot day if it came up and introduced itself

I'm not complaining, by the way, I love this weather.

6Gman · 5 Feb 2015

trainophile said:
Same thing happens at Birmingham New Street. The Arrivals/Departures boards in the concourse often show "Arrived" against the LM Liverpool Lime Street train up to half an hour before it is due out, so everyone troops down to the relevant platform, only to find the doors locked and no staff in sight. A guard appears about five minutes before departure time, and releases the doors with three or four minutes to go.

I can understand that they can't open the doors until staff are present, but why show "Arrived" on the information system when people might as well wait in the comparative warmth of the concourse?

I use the Liverpool service out of New Street quite often and have never encountered that issue.

Train comes in; people get off; people get on; no probs.

trainophile · 5 Feb 2015

6Gman said:
I use the Liverpool service out of New Street quite often and have never encountered that issue.

Train comes in; people get off; people get on; no probs.

I'm generally passing through on a Sunday, catching the 1235. I think it probably starts from there, hence the long dwell at platform. Engines switched off too. I have no idea where it comes from but we are always informed it has arrived a considerable time before we are allowed to board it.

Depends whether it's a through service I suppose, or if it starts at BHM. It might be different on weekdays.

Sheepy1209 · 5 Feb 2015

Twice now I've boarded a Euston -> Crewe service well before departure time (20 minutes or more), I thought that must be normal. Similarly the xx:02 from Crewe south can be boarded over half an hour before it departs (it arrives at xx:24) - I find that a civilised way to travel and is one reason I'll go that way rather than the quicker route via BHM. Shame if it's not consistent.

A-driver · 5 Feb 2015

This can happen at kings x to. What normally happens is that an 8 car comes in. It splits Ito 2 4 car trains. The unit on the stops is locked down to avoid people getting on the wrong train. The front leaves to form its service and 30mins later the rear unit on the stops forms a service. Issue is that the driver who split it works the front unit out so can't re-open doors on the other coaches. The driver for the rear unit won't need to be down until departure time and often won't have started work yet or be on a break so not available to pop down and open the doors up until they go down around 5min before departure.

As has been said, if the train leaves on time then that's the main thing. It may be cold on the platform but it's no different to passengers waiting at other stations en route who won't be able to board until bang on departure time when the train arrives-and sometimes the through stations are busier than the original stations so makes no difference with the amount boarding.

chefchenko · 5 Feb 2015

what is worse is all waiting by the departure boards waiting for your platform to be shown as they do or used to at glasgow central 2 or 3 minutes before departure !!! when i worked on arran i always got the 16.50 to ardrossan harbour and it was always a scrum to get on !!!!!

TUC · 6 Feb 2015

Michael.Y said:
Real Time Trains tells me it left on time. What more do you want?

Whatever the virtues or otherwise of the OP, approaches such as 'it left on time. What more do you want?' hardly represent a customer service-focussed approach. The starting point should always be 'what do our passengers want from our service?' There will be occeasions when there are genuine reasons why this cannot be delivered but meeting what customers want should always be the aim.

How do you think major store chains became successful? One thing is for sure. It was not by saying 'you got what you came for. What more do you want?'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

trainophile said:
Same thing happens at Birmingham New Street. The Arrivals/Departures boards in the concourse often show "Arrived" against the LM Liverpool Lime Street train up to half an hour before it is due out, so everyone troops down to the relevant platform, only to find the doors locked and no staff in sight. A guard appears about five minutes before departure time, and releases the doors with three or four minutes to go.

I can understand that they can't open the doors until staff are present, but why show "Arrived" on the information system when people might as well wait in the comparative warmth of the concourse?

The same is often the case at stations I'm at. Why show 'boarding' on the departure screen when it isn't? Northern Rail are particularly prone to this issue.

Bletchleyite · 6 Feb 2015

Daz28 said:
Not a problem at Charing Cross where it is standard practice for SouthEastern drivers to leave the train with all doors unlocked. Passengers will start boarding, cleaners will run through emptying bins and collecting rubbish. A few minutes before departure the driver will turn up, do his checks, program the PIS, close the doors then leave.

Why is it so difficult elsewhere?

This is exactly how it used to work at Euston, but this changed, perhaps 2-3 years ago. I wonder if it was perhaps Olympics related, and had something to do with security because if you leave a train there unlocked all day there is a risk someone could get on board and, say, leave something nasty behind for later?

There was also a further change at some point, whereby the passenger doors are only released by the guard, never the driver. This was most noticeable on the 0715 from Bletchley, which is brought in from the sidings about 10 minutes before departure; the driver who brings it in used to release the doors, whereas now they wait for the guard to do so, who arrives much later. I wonder if this is the more noticeable factor - do guards generally get to the train later than drivers, perhaps as they have less to do before departure?

I suspect both of these were always the rule and have more recently become enforced.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TUC said:
The same is often the case at stations I'm at. Why show 'boarding' on the departure screen when it isn't? Northern Rail are particularly prone to this issue.

So are airlines

That said, the Euston scrum 2 minutes before departure would be worse.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

D1009 said:
At places like New Street or Euston with platform staff there continuously, there is absolutely no reason not to allow passengers to board trains which are ready for boarding.

LM use far more "off platforms" than they used to, and platform staff *aren't* there all the time other than on 8-11.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

theageofthetra said:
I would have thought that TOC's could risk falling foul of DDA or age descrimination legislation if they are allowing such a short time to get to the train. Do staff at Euston, if requested, allow those with mobility issues to wait at the bottom of the ramp or by their allocated coach door? At airports those who have requested assistance are often taken to the gate (or at least the correct part of the airport), before the gate is announced on the screens to the rest of the travellers.

This isn't so much the issue here - they are being announced in plenty of time (on LM) but people have to queue by the doors. Arguably better than the 2-minute scrum.

Neil

Waiting in the cold at Euston

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