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Budget 2015

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bnm

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If First are so terrible, why do you continue to patronise them?

Because I'm able to separate the politics from day to day running. Because I understand that frontline staff are (most of the time...) doing their very best in spite of, not because of, their board of directors.

And ultimately I continue to patronise FGW day in day out (not withstanding the half a dozen Pullman meals a year) because they are, for the vast majority of my rail journeys, a monopoly provider.
 
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I understand Abellio will be signing the lease on the required FGW HSTs this week which means legally Scotrail can demand them in 2018 whether electrification is ready or not.

It's basically the reverse of the 170s going to Southern. Once the leases are signed they're Scotrail's trains.

A link between these two threads perhaps?
(This one and the Abellio thread)
And perhaps the DfT trying to avoid egg on its face should FGW have insufficient trains in 2018?
 
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jimm

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The possibility of a Devon and Cornwall local franchise is subject of a future decision based on recommendations of a recently established Devon and Cornwall rail 'task force'. New name for talking shop presumably...

No it's not, the Devon and Cornwall franchise idea came from George Osborne in a speech in January, in the course of which he also proposed setting up a rail task force for the region, apparently unaware that the area's councils and businesses had done just that already, building on work done some years ago by Plymouth County Council and others. After last winter's events it is also looking at ways to provide an alternative to the Dawlish route. Which clearly needs to be talked about - whether that makes the task force a talking shop, I leave to others to judge.
 

yorksrob

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Well, it's good to see Uckfield - Lewes mentioned, however I can't help agreeing with those on here who feel that the time for studies is over and the time for action is now.

Certainly they might as well update the BCR methodology to something more useful otherwise what's the point?

I understood that the IEP's were being introduced from 2019 onwards, but the announcement seems to suggest that they are being introduced during the franchise extension up to 2019?
 

jimm

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Because I'm able to separate the politics from day to day running. Because I understand that frontline staff are (most of the time...) doing their very best in spite of, not because of, their board of directors.

And ultimately I continue to patronise FGW day in day out (not withstanding the half a dozen Pullman meals a year) because they are, for the vast majority of my rail journeys, a monopoly provider.

Well if you're able to separate the politics from the day-to-day running, then explain why you seem to think removing the FGW senior management team at this point in time is a good idea - as that would have been the inevitable consequence of someone else getting the franchise - given that we are already well down the line in terms of electrification, modernisation work and preparing for IEP and other new rolling stock.

Of course the frontline staff will soldier on, but I'd also like to have senior managers in charge who are on top of the issues right now - and for the next few years, not greenhorns trying to learn the business in the middle of everything else that's going on - which is presumably the view DfT has taken.

And if the First Group board are so good at "gaming the system" and pulling the wool over DfT's eyes with such consummate skill over so many years, how is it that they have managed to lose Scotrail and Thameslink, on top of missing out on both West and East Coast, leaving them with just FGW, 55% of FTPE and 80% of a small open access operator?

Any other franchisee would also be a monopoly provider, so what's the big deal?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well, it's good to see Uckfield - Lewes mentioned, however I can't help agreeing with those on here who feel that the time for studies is over and the time for action is now.

Certainly they might as well update the BCR methodology to something more useful otherwise what's the point?

I understood that the IEP's were being introduced from 2019 onwards, but the announcement seems to suggest that they are being introduced during the franchise extension up to 2019?

What gives you the idea that IEPs were being introduced from 2019? The GW sets will enter service from 2017 - and Hitachi has to have them built and available for use, whatever the state of the wiring - and on East Coast from 2018. With 36 five-car bi-modes available to FGW, some can be used to replace HSTs bound for Scotland if necessary ahead of a full electric service starting. Any further build of bi-modes for GW services to replace HSTs to Devon and Cornwall would presumably follow the East Coast ones down the production line in 2019.
 
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Why do politicians keep mucking about with the rail franchises ?

Just look at passenger operations in the South West:

1996 - 2001: Wales & West - first operated by Prism and then National Express
2001 - 2006: Wessex trains
2006 - 2019: First Great Western
2019 - ? : yet another new South West rail franchise
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Why do politicians keep mucking about with the rail franchises ?

Just look at passenger operations in the South West:

1996 - 2001: Wales & West - first operated by Prism and then National Express
2001 - 2006: Wessex trains
2006 - 2019: First Great Western
2019 - ? : yet another new South West rail franchise

Because they can. It demonstrates public ownership and control.
Passenger services have not been fully privatised as many seem to think.
They revert to the DfT at the end of each franchise period.
Each time they try and tweak the network for better results.
 

Oswyntail

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Why do politicians keep mucking about with the rail franchises ?
Leaving aside cynicism for a moment, perhaps to try to get things right.
1996 - 2001: Wales & West - first operated by Prism and then National Express Not really a natural pairing, that tied provision into artificial flows....
2001 - 2006: Wessex trains...as did this, to a lesser extent
2006 - 2019: First Great Western. Always felt like a bolt-on to avoid....
2019 - ? : yet another new South West rail franchise....a micro-franchise that considers the needs of what is effectively a discrete network
 
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jimm

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The plans for a SW franchise demonstrates that the Conservatives are in with a chance of winning a few marginal West Country seats.

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2015-01-26/conservatives-target-cornwall-devons-marginal-seats/

It may also explain why David Cameron was at last year's re-opening of the line through Dawlish.

Describing it as a plan is getting way ahead of things. It was a vague proposal, just one line in a speech that was, as I said above, written by someone who did not know about the existence of the Peninsula Rail Taskforce - and the speech was obviously not checked in advance with anyone who had any knowledge of the situation in the South West, otherwise they would have spotted that howler. Bar a speculative piece about the franchise notion in Modern Railways, nothing much more has been said about it since.

Of course the Tories are in with the chance of winning some marginals in the area, given that the Lib Dems are struggling badly in the polls.
 

yorksrob

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Splitting local routes from the InterCity franchise could backfire horribly, particularly as the branchlines are experiencing growth, some investment and fares in the area are reasonable. Be wary.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Just one aspect of a noticeably cosy relationship between First and the DfT.

That time-related matter was best brought to mind by their award of the WCML franchise to the First Group, which then led to Virgin Trains taking the action that they did, that subsequently saw the DfT portrayed as inept (I use a kind word here) and then the fiasco of subsequent franchise granting being set back in time.
 

yorksrob

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I did try to read the article, but an obtrusive advert keeps coming up which I can't get rid of without closing the page. One wonders what newspaper proprietors are thinking allowing adverts which force you to close down their page !
 

jimm

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I did try to read the article, but an obtrusive advert keeps coming up which I can't get rid of without closing the page. One wonders what newspaper proprietors are thinking allowing adverts which force you to close down their page !

Best thing is just to reload the page, usually seems to kill the pop-up ad on LocalWorld sites eventually.

You're not missing much anyway, just more vagueness about what might happen on rolling stock and the Herald/Western Morning News repeating the same old incorrect stuff about IEPs to being unable to climb the Devon banks, as their journalists never seem to have caught up with the train being completely redesigned since the days of the infamous 'powerhouses'.

Unlikely things will become any clearer until Monday, if that is indeed the big day for the announcement of four more years of FGW.
 

yorksrob

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Best thing is just to reload the page, usually seems to kill the pop-up ad on LocalWorld sites eventually.

You're not missing much anyway, just more vagueness about what might happen on rolling stock and the Herald/Western Morning News repeating the same old incorrect stuff about IEPs to being unable to climb the Devon banks, as their journalists never seem to have caught up with the train being completely redesigned since the days of the infamous 'powerhouses'.

Unlikely things will become any clearer until Monday, if that is indeed the big day for the announcement of four more years of FGW.

I did and it just kept coming back !

From what I saw, it seemed to be more of a teaser than anything solid.

That said, improvements to the WOE mainline would be very welcome.
 
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Class 170101

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According to Richard Westcott (BBC News) on twitter

Richard Westcott said:
So to confirm. #budget wasn't announcing a new south west franchise, special Dev/Cornwall one or anything like that. Just confirming the new direct award to FGW until 2019 will be announced soon. And #iep trains going on the line
 

evergreenadam

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Also said the Northern Transport Strategy (HS3) will be published tomorrow. Budget doesn't mention publication of TPE direct award but it needs to be done this week because the franchise ends April.

Nothing announced today as far as I can see. Maybe tomorrow?
 

Clarence Yard

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Sources close to the action are saying they are (today) still on course for Monday for the GW DA and there will be something on new trains for the West in the announcement.

Bidders for other franchises have been offered ex GW 150/1 and 153 units but not the 158 fleet. It will be interesting on Monday to find out what they are going to be used for, if the Cardiff-Portsmouth is indeed going Turbo as planned.
 

WatcherZero

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Press as far as I know haven't been given a firm date for an announcement yet either, just a request to keep their schedule open.
 

Aictos

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Rail-related announcements in the Budget Red Book:

Full document: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...e/413949/47881_Budget_2015_Web_Accessible.pdf

  • Lewes to Uckfield rail line study – The government will provide £100,000 for a further study into reopening the Lewes to Uckfield rail line.
    [/LIST


  • Sorry for asking but as East Grinstead seems to be busier then Uckfield why then is it not being not considered for extending to Lewes and using that instead of Uckfield to Lewes?
 

RichardN

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Sorry for asking but as East Grinstead seems to be busier then Uckfield why then is it not being not considered for extending to Lewes and using that instead of Uckfield to Lewes?

I think the current users of the trackbed from East Grinstead are bit more influential than the users of trackbed from Uckfield...
 
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steamybrian

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I think the current users of the trackbed from East Grinstead are bit more influential than the users of trackbed from Uckfield...

Since the Uckfield-Lewes line closed in 1969 the local authorities have prevented any development on the route to make any subsequent reopening much easier except-
When the Uckfield by-pass (rerouted A22) was built it crosses the trackbed and a bridge will have to be built.
The approach to Lewes (through the town centre) closed in 1969 has been redeveloped but plans are to use the original route closed in 1868 (or near to it) into Lewes which joins the Keymer Jn to Lewes line south of Cooksbridge station.
The reopening of this route would connect the growing towns of Uckfield and Crowborough to Lewes and the coast.

The East Grinstead to Lewes line closed in 1958 is occupied by the Bluebell Railway to Sheffield Park. South of Sheffield Park the route has in parts been obliterated. It serves a rural area with stations remote from small villages.
 
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Bald Rick

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The East Grinstead to Lewes line closed in 1958 is occupied by the Bluebell Railway to Sheffield Park. South of Sheffield Park the route has in parts been obliterated. It serves a rural area with stations remote from small villages.

Whereas the settlements along the line from Uckfield to Lewes are positively metropolitan!
 

yorksrob

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Whereas the settlements along the line from Uckfield to Lewes are positively metropolitan!

Places such as Uckfield, Crowborough and Tunbridge Wells always had a healthy traffic South, hence why the route survived until 69, and was only killed off by an errant road building scheme. E Grinstead didn't have the patronage South, hence why it went pre-Beeching.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Whereas the settlements along the line from Uckfield to Lewes are positively metropolitan!

This has been (previously) - so done to death

I am gutted that Aberystwyth to Carmarthen did not get a development grant for a study ...:lol:
 

21C101

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Whereas the settlements along the line from Uckfield to Lewes are positively metropolitan!

I think they actually made a bit of an error and closed the wrong line north of Ashhurst Junction.

They really ought to have routed trains to Uckfield and Lewes via East Grinstead running Oxted, East Grinstead, Eridge, Uckfield, Lewes.

Ashhurst to Hurst Green goes through the middle of nowhere other than Edenbridge which has another station on the Tonbridge - Redhill line. If they had done as above that would have provided a link between East Grinstead, Crowborough, Uckfield & Lewes (& Tun Wells)

Personally I think all that the BML2 proposals do is provide a strawman that opponents of Uckfield - Lewes can use to pooh pooh the reopening, but if it is reopened via Hamsey and a loop alongside the Bypass that would allow the exsting London to Uckfield services to be extended to Brighton.

You could also get an extra two peak hour paths to London post London Bridge remodelling by running Brighton - Uckfield - Tun Wells - Sevenoaks - Bromley South - Victoria(E), making use of the now unused Eurostar/Boat Train capacity on the old Boat Train Route 1.
 
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