I spotted some spotters today between Runcorn East and Acton Grange Junction the wrong side of the boundary fence on a steep embankment taking photographs. Shame on them, please don't trespass guys to get that better shot as it will end you up in trouble!
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Spotters Trespassing
- Thread starter TDK
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
TB93
Member
- Joined
- 19 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 68
Nothing new there I see it most days but hey ho they need THAT picture.
Indeed and of course most spotters are railway experts and so there is no danger:roll:
Temple Meads
Established Member
'Spotters' really should know better, feel pretty ashamed to share a hobby with people like this!
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Its shame that it was not possible to alert the BTP. Arrest them and make an example of them.
Probably a fixed penalty at most nowadays.
theblackwatch
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 10,713
Like the BTP arrest all those contravening Railway Byelaws behaving in a dangerous manner at the likes of York station every Saturday night?
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
Like the BTP arrest all those contravening Railway Byelaws behaving in a dangerous manner at the likes of York station every Saturday night?
Yea, but if it's daylight there is more chance of getting a response from BTP, and trespass is taken a bit more seriously than D&D...
theblackwatch
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 10,713
Going for the easier target perhaps? Which is more likely to cause harm (to themselves/others) or bother? And I'm sure you're right about the time of day!
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment...
One thing I've been noticing more and more on my routes with spotters is wearing high viz orange vests on station platforms...can't work out why they feel any need whatsoever to do that, the only time you need one on is if you are going onto the line...
iantherev
Member
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Hope you got their numbers.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Now that's against the NR / BTP guidelines isn't it?
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Sorry, but that photo proves nothing.
Is that a public road or a private track?
A map reference would help to check.
the sniper
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 3,499
I presume because you wouldn't be so naive.
There's more chance of getting a response in 'daylight' because they're usually less busy during the day than the evening, aren't yet processing someone detained or arrested during the day, and are better resourced than at night.
If a trespass job is resourced instead of a D&D job, maybe it's because TOCs would prefer a train to be running around with a drunk on it than have that train and all the rest of their trains be stopped by some trespasser ending up underneath one of them?
Or yeah, maybe BTP's Force Control Rooms just like to give their rank and file an easy time. Just like TOC timetable planning departments like to make nice easy diagrams for train crew... :roll:
theironroad
Established Member
Really need a 360 shot of that location. What was behind the photographer? Was there a railway boundary fence? Is it NR infrastructure or a private siding?
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Like the BTP arrest all those contravening Railway Byelaws behaving in a dangerous manner at the likes of York station every Saturday night?
Whats worse, being drunk and loud on a station or trespassing on railway property and putting yourself in grave danger of being killed. Not to mention the trauma that the driver would suffer. The image of the person that they had hit would surely stay with them for the rest of their days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well if you get hit by a train whilst being at the line side then I would say that's a whole lot worse than being drunk on a platform and being a nuisance.
westcoaster
Established Member
I wonder why they do it ....... There is a chap on the brighton main line who wares orange strangely enough his arms seem to spasm in a up and down fashion to get you to blow the horn.
theblackwatch
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 10,713
The 'drunk and loud' person may also falling off a platform or attempting to board a moving train and is, in my view, a higher risk, and is also more likely be involved in violence. There has been at least one instance of a drunk person on a station being killed by a train in recent years, but I can't remember ever hearing of a 'spotter trespassing' being involved in a similar incident.
I'm not saying trespass is right, but should someone who is slightly the wrong side of the boundary fence be the biggest worry? Surely any action needs to be better targeted. How did anyone survive in days gone by when things like this were commonplace!
If it is the middle of the day though and the BTP have very few if any D&D incidents to be dealing with then obviously a report of a trespasser is going to get more resources thrown at it . its just the simple logistics . Id argue though even at 23:00 on a Friday night a trespasser should still be treated as a reasonably high priority as we dont necessarily know why that person is trespassing or how they have come to be on the railway
At a glance passing by at speed the driver might not know if they are there just as a spotter trying to get that potential "best shot" or if they are the wrong side of the boundary fence to misappropriate some of the networks finest copper cabling or they might be a suicidal person about to throw themselves under a train . They might be a drunk person who has decided they are fed up of waiting for the train to come and they can walk down the track to their destination .
Bottom line the boundary fence is there for a reason . And how do we know that the spotter has not just committed trespass but also criminal damage in causing damage to the boundary in passing through the boundary .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sure people fall off platforms drunk and try and board moving trains but at the busier stations where drunks are found en masse you are more likely to have station staff who can supervise and stop the job if something untoward happens like a person tottering off the edge of a platform .
Like the BTP arrest all those contravening Railway Byelaws behaving in a dangerous manner at the likes of York station every Saturday night?
In my experience around 50% of the passengers who attempt to board this service on Satuday nights should be refused travel, but aren't. I don't know what it's like since it has been designated a dry train though.
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Was that the poor girl who suffered character assassination after her death on the Merseyrail Network? That's the only incident that I can think of and of course there is an equal chance that a rail enthusiast might have their back turned to a train and get hit and be killed. There was a picture published of rail enthusiasts at Tamworth a year or two a go who had trespassed on to the track side and who were lucky not to have been killed. Of course its only natural that rail enthusiasts will sometimes seek to defend their own.
I would argue that once you are the wrong side of the tracks the temptation will be to move further towards to the running line. How would you define slightly the wrong side of the boundary fence? All that matters here is that you are the wrong side of the boundary fence. And all this in order to take a picture whilst risking your life and potentially heaping misery on your family and a train driver.
As for those photographers taking a picture of the 9F it might have been in a different age but it doesn't make it right! I'm sure BR would have much preferred that enthusiasts were not trespassing on to their railway even then!
Last edited:
PermitToTravel
Established Member
I'm quite prepared to be very quickly shot down for this; but would posit that purely from a safety point of view, far more important than which side of a legal boundary one is on is the level of risk of falling onto the track - spotters high up on embankments or verges are far less likely to come into contact with trains than drunk people near platform edges.
In a world where there was no law forbidding trespassing on railways, most people wouldn't see anything wrong with someone just over the fence taking photographs in a safe manner. Most people would still see something wrong with the picture of the boys stood on the tracks, distracted from their surroundings by their cameras. The law, in and of itself, is a reason not to do things - but the law doesn't make things dangerous.
It obviously can't be condoned, what with the illegality of it and what it does for the reputation of the hobby - not to mention how it could tempt others to "one-up" the miscreants by doing something dangerous - but there's definitely some merit to theblackwatch's argument.
In a world where there was no law forbidding trespassing on railways, most people wouldn't see anything wrong with someone just over the fence taking photographs in a safe manner. Most people would still see something wrong with the picture of the boys stood on the tracks, distracted from their surroundings by their cameras. The law, in and of itself, is a reason not to do things - but the law doesn't make things dangerous.
It obviously can't be condoned, what with the illegality of it and what it does for the reputation of the hobby - not to mention how it could tempt others to "one-up" the miscreants by doing something dangerous - but there's definitely some merit to theblackwatch's argument.
Last edited:
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
Not to disagree with the points you raise, but a few years ago I read an interview with an incoming Chief Constable of BTP, and amongst his plans was a comment that he intended to change the working pattern, as stats showed that most officers were on duty 9-5 Mon-Fri, but most offences occurred at evenings and weekends, which would be confirmed by any train-crew. Now while I fully accept that BTP can't be everywhere, it's much more common to see officers walking around a major station at 10am than 10pm, for whatever reason. And a visible presence after dark is not only very reassuring for staff, but has a noticeable effect on the level of anti-social behaviour. However, it also cuts down on "reported" anti-social behaviour if nobody is there to see it, and staff can be taught to develop a very high threshold as to what they report.
Which doesn't take away from my original point, there is more chance of BTP attention at 11am than 11pm, for whatever reason.
I'd treat spotters the same as drunk & disorderley. If they're over the boundary or near the line then they deserve what's coming. They know they shouldn't be there.
The orange hi-viz wearers - it reeks of them hoping someone will think they're railway staff and think they'll get away with pushing their luck on stations.
The orange hi-viz wearers - it reeks of them hoping someone will think they're railway staff and think they'll get away with pushing their luck on stations.
They wear this to get the driver to sound the horn for their videos
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another thing that should happen is the delay cost should go to the people who are trespassing because when you report a trespasser normally the signaller will request all trains to precede with caution past the area and this can and usually does cost thousands in delay costs. I have seen this far too often and think that large fines should be implemented to ensure the spotters think twice about trespassing again.
PermitToTravel
Established Member
It's more likely to be a £60 PND if they're not nicking metal 
wensley
Established Member
I do disagree with BTP's decision-making on occassion ... but the response does very much vary depending on what else is going on in the area and what resource is available.
However, both trespass and D&D are serious issues for the railway. York on a Saturday night can be a nightmare to work, but not everyone who is technically committing a byelaw offence can be arrested - there'd soon be no cells left. The real issue is the publicans in York continuing to servce numerous folk when they are clearly intoxicated.
BTP and the TOCs are having a crackdown and York tonight with extra resources. Unfortunately, the problem won't be easily fixed.
Drunks and trains don't mix, but neither do trespassers - especially those who think they have the right to wander all over the railway just for the 'perfect' photo.
However, both trespass and D&D are serious issues for the railway. York on a Saturday night can be a nightmare to work, but not everyone who is technically committing a byelaw offence can be arrested - there'd soon be no cells left. The real issue is the publicans in York continuing to servce numerous folk when they are clearly intoxicated.
BTP and the TOCs are having a crackdown and York tonight with extra resources. Unfortunately, the problem won't be easily fixed.
Drunks and trains don't mix, but neither do trespassers - especially those who think they have the right to wander all over the railway just for the 'perfect' photo.
- Status