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Chiltern group save via high Wycombe only

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Impey0711

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Good afternoon I'm travelling to Birmingham on Saturday from marylebone on a group save return via high Wycombe I understand the trains will be extremely busy can I get on a train bound for Stratford or Banbury and change for a xc service from Banbury to Birmingham with my ticket ?
 
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bb21

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Not valid on XC, no.

There is a possible argument using Condition 10 but I think it is more trouble than its worth since you will already have seats boarding at Marylebone.
 

Impey0711

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That's cool I just didn't wanna risk it don't really wanna be standing all the way from marylebone- Birmingham although chiltern have said the train I plan to board will be a 6 car 168
 

MarlowDonkey

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Not valid on XC, no.

I thought the "via Wycombe" ticket was what it says, not a Chiltern only ticket. Doesn't the ticket say "Birmingham stations" rather than Snow Hill or Moor Street? You might even want to go via New Street to avoid a walk if you were splitting a ticket at Birmingham.
 

yorkie

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If its a ticket to Birmingham Stns routed via High Wycombe there is nothing printed on the ticket to stop you using overcrowded, cramped, CrossCountry services to New Street.

Whether or not hidden T&Cs which violate Condition 10 of the NRCoC are enforceable or not, I will let you make up your own mind!
 

greatkingrat

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I thought the "via Wycombe" ticket was what it says, not a Chiltern only ticket. Doesn't the ticket say "Birmingham stations" rather than Snow Hill or Moor Street? You might even want to go via New Street to avoid a walk if you were splitting a ticket at Birmingham.

In general High Wycombe tickets are valid on XC from Banbury to Birmingham, however in this particular case the issue is that XC don't accept groupsave.
 

Impey0711

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I think I'll just stay put save any bother and get a Birmingham train from marylebone
 

Tetchytyke

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I thought the "via Wycombe" ticket was what it says, not a Chiltern only ticket.

A VIA HIGH WYCOMBE ticket is valid on Cross Country from Banbury to New Street.

The issue is the GroupSave discount. Cross Country do not participate in the Group Save scheme, therefore Group Save tickets are not considered valid on their trains.

As bb21 says this is a bit of a grey area. Some people think NRCoC 10 (which says restrictions must be printed on the ticket) allow it- GroupSave restrictions don't get printed on the ticket- but the TOCs don't tend to agree. Iknow yorkie doesn't agree but I think the GPS-3 code counts as printing the restriction on the ticket.

The busy part of the Chiltern Main Line is from Marylebone to Bicester- lots of tourists going to the outlet village- so changing at Banbury wouldn't solve a great deal.
 
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bb21

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I thought the "via Wycombe" ticket was what it says, not a Chiltern only ticket. Doesn't the ticket say "Birmingham stations" rather than Snow Hill or Moor Street? You might even want to go via New Street to avoid a walk if you were splitting a ticket at Birmingham.

I am not going to get into another discussion about whether a discount can override the interavailability of a ticket, as we have had plenty of discussions on this subject and never managed to reach a consensus.

For the record I believe that Condition 10 should not be undermined by the specific conditions of a discount not explicitly printed on the ticket, however I am of the view that as things currently stand, there are good arguments to say that they can (one of which I note Arctic Troll had already covered).

From a practical point of view, doing so in this particular case would simply be asking for trouble and there is likely to be very little benefit (If XC were empty they'd be picked up by the guard and end up in an argument. If XC were busy why change from Chiltern?), so I advise against it. There is a time and place for a challenge, and this is not it imo.
 

Impey0711

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I tweeted chiltern about people boarding only going to say Bicester as artic troll said I said can't u tell people with Bicester/Banbury tickets only too get on the slower services freeing up space for travellers beyond Banbury they said no
 

bb21

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I tweeted chiltern about people boarding only going to say Bicester as artic troll said I said can't u tell people with Bicester/Banbury tickets only too get on the slower services freeing up space for travellers beyond Banbury they said no

Of course they can't. What they could do is to make trains non-stop to Banbury, but they may not be able to satisfy their franchise commitments that way.

They wouldn't do that either from a business point of view. Bicester flows are cash-cows for them and unsurprisingly they would want to look after pax going there.
 

Tetchytyke

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I tweeted chiltern about people boarding only going to say Bicester as artic troll said I said can't u tell people with Bicester/Banbury tickets only too get on the slower services freeing up space for travellers beyond Banbury they said no

Well of course they won't, Bicester (which off-peak is the same price as to Brum) is a big money-spinner for Chiltern Railways.

Get to Marylebone in plenty of time and you'll get a seat, especially in the carriages furthest away from the barrier.
 

Impey0711

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Fair enough I can see the point you're making I just hope majority of people travel Friday and travel back Sunday/ monday
 
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CyrusWuff

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For reference, the Chiltern timetable for this weekend shows Bicester North as pick up only Northbound and set down only Southbound on the Birmingham trains for much of the day.
 

bb21

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For reference, the Chiltern timetable for this weekend shows Bicester North as pick up only Northbound and set down only Southbound on the Birmingham trains for much of the day.

Thumbs up for being proactive imo.
 

Impey0711

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Touchwood then chiltern stick to that and put something into action at marylebone
 

CyrusWuff

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Touchwood then chiltern stick to that and put something into action at marylebone

As long as it's correctly marked in ITPS (Integrated Train Planning System), which a cursory glance on Realtime Trains suggests is the case, the trains in question will not show the Bicester calls on the CIS at Marylebone.

That doesn't mean staff won't direct Bicester passengers to the Birmingham trains, however...
 

Impey0711

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That's handy then may ease congestion a tad then ! Makes sense I suppose to make it pick up only northbound and drop off only southbound
 

Starmill

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Aren't there usually several 8 car trains to Birmingham from Marylebone during Watford closures?
 

CyrusWuff

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Expect Birmingham services to be 6, 7 or 8 cars; additional Bicester terminators and the loco-hauled sets to come off their normal diagrams and substitute for 168s to free up units.

Also expect passengers travelling to destinations other than Rugby - Wolves (inclusive), Lichfield and Shrewsbury to be directed to St Pancras or Kings Cross, per the official alternative routes page on the VTWC site.
 

Impey0711

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When I tweeted chiltern he told me the 09:36 from marylebone would be formed of 6 coaches a 168 I'd assume
 

bb21

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Six coaches will likely be a double 168. There are also other possibilities.
 

Impey0711

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All should be fine I'm expecting it to busy as a poster said get to myb early and hold by the gates I'm getting there for 9am so should be fine
 
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Won't be an 8 coach train, unless it has a guard on it all the way to Marylebone, DOO is only signed off for a maximum of 7 coaches at present i believe
 
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