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West Coast Railways Suspended (now reinstated)

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Llanigraham

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Aha, he didnt , so how does anybody know about this incident? And a Driver doesn't 'mention it', he is asked specific questions by the signaller to which he replies.

Have you actually read the RAIB initial report?
I know exactly what has to be asked, and the duties I have to perform after this type of "incident", thank you.
It comes with being a PROFESSIONAL signaller!!

I await your apology.
 
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455driver

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dangerous-occurrence-at-wootton-bassett-junction-wiltshire

I am not hanging anyone out to dry, but perhaps "isolated" was the wrong word to use.

Well their actions rendered the equipment unable to react to the overspeed as the train approached the red so I would say your words were spot on, whether the equipment was isolated in the true sense of the word or simply unplugged isn't really relevant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have you actually read the RAIB initial report?
I know exactly what has to be asked, and the duties I have to perform after this type of "incident", thank you.
It comes with being a PROFESSIONAL signaller!!

I await your apology.

As do iI being a PROFESSIONAL train driver.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not the one that was filmed at the Epping and Ongar recently?

I did apply but was beaten by a more qualified individual, my train driving experience didn't seem to count for much!;)
 

In the loop

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Spare a thought for the Driver and Fireman and their families. I'm sure they are very distressed by how close they came to disaster. I'm sure they will fully co-operate with the RAIB and help to ensure such an occurrence can not be repeated and we will all be the safer for that.
 

RPTC

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Aha, he didnt , so how does anybody know about this incident? And a Driver doesn't 'mention it', he is asked specific questions by the signaller to which he replies.

Errr, I'm not a railway worker but presumably as the signaller noticed the junction was blocked by a stationary train that was supposed to further back on the line. And I would assume in this day and age some system will have alerted them to the SPAD. Plus I believe everything is recorded in the control centre.

And I'd be a bit worrired if no one spotted a SPAD and then a stationary train mid-junction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Spare a thought for the Driver and Fireman and their families. I'm sure they are very distressed by how close they came to disaster. I'm sure they will fully co-operate with the RAIB and help to ensure such an occurrence can not be repeated and we will all be the safer for that.

Let's hope so. Sadly one of the reasons the suspension has happened is because WCR in the past did not fully co-operate with NR on safety matters as evidenced in the arbitration and by NR.

I hope that they have access to suitably qualified support from competent advisers who fully understand railway safety. Ideally independent of WCR in my view since both company and crew are under scrutiny.

Speaking personally I'm avoiding any discussion of the crew or SPAD as it is under investigation, and the crew have been involved in an incident that is now part of a much bigger issue. They need to be left to get on with it, and those around them need to make sure they get the support they need. They are at the end of a long chain of events that has now precipitated much bigger events. We must ensure that they are not hung out to dry for failures by others, hence my comments are limited to WCR's actions. And also because I understand general SMS principles and processes but know diddly squat about driving steam trains.
 
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carriageline

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I'm not entirely sure what box controls that (is it Slough panel?) but it might not necessarily have SPAD alarms. But the signaller should of noticed the SPAD, be surprised if they didn't!
 

Juniper Driver

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Typical of the press to intentionally mislead with headlines as IMO that seems to hint towards there being some intent!

I agree,in a car you can do it and possibly get away with it.In a train it wont save you anything and may possibly cost you your job (if not more).
 

A-driver

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Do ASLEF represent and support West Coast Railways drivers these days?


Depends. A lot of their staff are retired or work for other TOCs but work for WCR on days off plus are zero hours. Aslef is strictly against all these practices so as a rule wouldn't represent their drivers however in reality it can be different.

I can't help thinking this suspension is partly aimed at pleasing ASLEF. After the Hitchin spad incident in which a Kings Lynn driver was given a 3month suspended sentence Aslef threatened a new rule on GSMR and CSR failures which would have very quickly brought the countries railways into chaos as radio faults formed part of the prosecution from the ORR.

Talks happened between the union and ORR as one of as legs biggest gripes was the the Stafford spad by DCR went by without any real action compared with the Hitchin incident and after the talks aslefs radio guidance was cancelled.

I have a sneaky feeling that this suspension is part of that deal between Aslef and the ORR/NR to clamp down on such incidents with these 'less regulated' companies.
 

33056

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I'm not entirely sure what box controls that (is it Slough panel?) but it might not necessarily have SPAD alarms. But the signaller should of noticed the SPAD, be surprised if they didn't!
Certainly not Slough (which has just closed this weekend, RIP), think Wootton Bassett is still controlled by Swindon PSB.
 

AndyPJG

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I'm not entirely sure what box controls that (is it Slough panel?) but it might not necessarily have SPAD alarms. But the signaller should of noticed the SPAD, be surprised if they didn't!

Controlled by Swindon Panel, soon to be transferred to TVSC at Didcot.

A SPaD would show by occupation of the overlap TC beyond the signal short of the junction as a minimum, may also be a SPaD alarm and/or a Train Description not stepping forward correctly.
 

Bertie the bus

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I'm sure they will fully co-operate with the RAIB and help to ensure such an occurrence can not be repeated and we will all be the safer for that.

Which is hardly something they should be commended on but the very least that should be expected under the circumstances.
 

Deltic1

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It will be interesting to see if WCR actually make it out the other side of this as they presumably still have bills etc. and they currently don't have an income!
 

D60

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It will be interesting to see if WCR actually make it out the other side of this as they presumably still have bills etc. and they currently don't have an income!

It seems that WCR are not in the possibly heavily indebted situation that has seen some other tour operators and providers succumb over the years when their business plans fail for whatever reason... But yes, you'd expect the situation you describe to be concentrating minds..
 

blackfive460

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I could not open that message. What did it say?

No idea (I don't do Twitter!) but Steam Dreams announced that the train booked for 8th April was postponed on Friday. See this page.

RTC, on the other hand postponed tours on 4th and 6th April but have said that they hope to run the CME on 11th April with another operator, presumably DBS but whether diesel or steam remains to be seen.
 

TheKnightWho

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What on earth has privatisation got to do with this SPAD?

I would imagine that the reasoning is something to do with it not being profitable to run steam trains, as they're stealing paths from more profitable 'proper' trains.

a) This is false. They are profitable.
b) They're not allowed to steal paths anyway, so it's a complete red herring. If NR wanted to run more trains they'd simply run more trains, and give WCR and others the dregs; they wouldn't literally ban steam!

In other words, complete b[redacted]!
 
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cjmillsnun

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I was a given a copy of Saturdays Daily Telegraph, they ran a half page on the ban and reasons for it,sorry its not on the web

I think it is...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ended-from-railways-over-safety-concerns.html

Train company that owns real-life Hogwarts Express suspended from railways over safety concerns

West Coast Railways, which owns and operates a fleet of steam trains on mainline tracks, has its licence suspended following incident described as most serious this year


As the owner of the real-life Hogwarts Express, West Coast Railways has brought pleasure to millions of Harry Potter fans and steam enthusiasts alike with its pleasure trips up and down the country.
But the charter train company’s future is now in doubt after Network Rail suspended its licence to operate trains on the rail network following a near-catastrophe described as the most serious incident on the railways this year.
A steam engine pulling 13 coaches of passengers came to rest on a track junction after it failed to stop at a red light. The West Coast (WCR) train crossed the junction moments after a high-speed train had gone past, narrowly avoiding a crash.
Network Rail described the incident as “the most serious Signal Passed At Danger (SPAD) that has taken place this year” and suspended WCR’s licence for a minimum of eight weeks from April 3 while the Department for Transport investigates.
The real-life Hogwarts Express is owned by West Coast Railways
In a stiffly-worded letter to WCR, Network Rail said it had “had concerns about WCR’s performance of its Safety Obligations for some time and recent events lead Network Rail to believe that the operations of WCR are a threat to the safe operation of the railway”.
WCR, based in Carnforth, Lancashire, owns a fleet of steam locomotives including Olton Hall, the train used as the Hogwarts Express in the Harry Potter films. The company trades heavily on its connection to the movies, organising charters that travel the same stretch of track featured in the first of the films.
Fans of the films will recognise picturesque scenes of steam engines chugging across the 21-arched Glenfinnan viaduct, with one route advertised as following the journey made famous in the Harry Potter films.
The route is home to some of the most memorable sights in the fictional tale of Harry Potter, including the very first meeting of Harry, Ron and Hermione during the search for Neville Longbottom’s escaped toad.
Throughout the series of books and films, it also saw the beginning of a fierce hatred between Harry and Draco Malfoy, Harry’s first encounter with a soul-sapping Dementor and, in the final novel, the resolution of the entire seven-book plot.
The engine used as the Hogwarts Express is now part of an exhibition for fans at Platform 9 and ¾ at Warner Bros Studio Tour, London.

Other locomotives owned by the company travel on such celebrated lines as the Settle to Carlisle track and Fort William to Mallaig, and take in scenes featured in the films “Highlander” and “Local Hero”.
On March 7 a Bristol to Southend train operated by WCR passed through a danger signal outside Royal Wootton Bassett in Wiltshire. The Rail Accident Investigation Branch found the driver and fireman took steps to override the automatic brake installed in the locomotive, meaning it carried on towards the junction.
When the driver saw the red stop light further down the line he fully applied the brakes, but not in time to prevent the train coming to rest on the double track high-speed junction.
A spokesman for Network Rail said: “Network Rail has issued a suspension notice to West Coast Railway Company Limited (WCR) as a result of ongoing safety concerns.
“This decision has not been taken lightly, however safety will always be our number one priority.
“We have set out a number of actions to address the safety concerns raised and will continue to work with WCR to ensure their services can run safely in future.”
WCR has been told that it will only be able to resume operations if it improves its driver monitoring and training and updates its safety systems.
In the meantime its trains, many of which are hired out to other companies, will still be able to run on the national railway network if they are being operated by other licenced train firms.
 

Peter Mugridge

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It seems that WCR are not in the possibly heavily indebted situation that has seen some other tour operators and providers succumb over the years when their business plans fail for whatever reason...

They're not; their finances are quite healthy - see post #104 for the details.
 

CosherB

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I work in a completely different industry to the railways, but have been in an analogous situation where it was the lack of corporate governance that led to the suspension of the company from it's operations by the industry regulator, after a series of repeated deviations from regulations. A huge list of improvements were required in a short space of time to (a) regain confidence of the regulator and (b) maintain a commercial position in the market, which were successfully achieved after 6 months. The company at the time was of a sufficient size and had the resources to make the necessary changes to infrastructure, procedures and culture to resolve the suspension and begin operating once more.

Within a year, the company was taken over by a much larger competitior and received substantial investment to make ongoing and long term improvements. We can only hope that history repeats itself and WCR can recover ..... however, in these situations, there are no guarantees.
 
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infobleep

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Does anyone know how the train completed its journey on that day? After all the country doesn't have hundreds of mainline steam train drivers.
 

GB

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Believe there was a "spare" driver that happened to be traveling on the train at the time.
 

Dave1987

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How much mainline training do steam drivers actually get? Are they taught defensive driving and given full training on exactly how the AWS and TPWS work, press and call etc etc?
 
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