Waterloo - Movement on the redevelopment

The only place I can imagine putting a tunnel portal in the Wimbledon Area is here:

https://goo.gl/maps/0mhHe

(the obvious triangle of warehouses/garages in satellite view).

While it would probably require some sort of flyover with the Thameslink lines (probably Thameslink over Crossrail), without huge and very expensive compulsory purchase orders in Wimbledon, I don't see where North of Wimbledon they'd go. Unless they're planning on knocking down Centre-Court shopping centre, I can't see how the station can be expanded anywhere but down.

glbotu said:

The only place I can imagine putting a tunnel portal in the Wimbledon Area is here:

https://goo.gl/maps/0mhHe

(the obvious triangle of warehouses/garages in satellite view).

While it would probably require some sort of flyover with the Thameslink lines (probably Thameslink over Crossrail), without huge and very expensive compulsory purchase orders in Wimbledon, I don't see where North of Wimbledon they'd go. Unless they're planning on knocking down Centre-Court shopping centre, I can't see how the station can be expanded anywhere but down.

Click to expand...

Yes, stealing some of the old goods yard there was what I was assuming was the plan. It even seemed to make sense at the time. You'd probably get a good view of the construction from the footbridges at either end if they did. (I spent too many hours on those bridges as a kid...)

The prosoped CR2 route was safeguarded today by the SoS:

See
http://crossrail2.co.uk/areas-safeguarded/
for all the detailed maps etc

&

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/major-step-forward-for-crossrail-2

For the TfL press release.

hwl said:

The prosoped CR2 route was safeguarded today by the SoS:

See
http://crossrail2.co.uk/areas-safeguarded/
for all the detailed maps etc

&

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/march/major-step-forward-for-crossrail-2

For the TfL press release.

Click to expand...

Interesting thanks. At Wimbledon the map clearly shows a tunnel alignment turning sharply east towards Tooting at the London end of Wimbledon station.

I note there's a section of underground (purple) safeguarding branching south of Victoria towards the Thames then stopping abruptly at the north bank opposite Battersea Park (on the south bank). I wonder what that is for. Alternative route avoiding Chelsea? But then why not continue on to intersect the alignment again somewhere else. Underground depot or sidings? Surely prohibitively expensive. Perhaps a junction for an as yet unannounced future additional branch? Any ideas?

MarkyT said:

Interesting thanks. At Wimbledon the map clearly shows a tunnel alignment turning sharply east towards Tooting at the London end of Wimbledon station.

I note there's a section of underground (purple) safeguarding branching south of Victoria towards the Thames then stopping abruptly at the north bank opposite Battersea Park (on the south bank). I wonder what that is for. Alternative route avoiding Chelsea? But then why not continue on to intersect the alignment again somewhere else. Underground depot or sidings? Surely prohibitively expensive. Perhaps a junction for an as yet unannounced future additional branch? Any ideas?

Click to expand...

The Victoria "spur" my *guess* would be TBM launch site as the spoil could be barged out via the Thames. The spur is mostly under the Hospital grounds used for the Chelsea Flower Show etc.

It appears the likely tunnel mouths at Wimbeldon would be in the V between the SWML and the Thameslink/SN line to Haydons Road.Some developers were desperately trying to get planning permission for some massive flats in the sharp bit of the V in January this year (site bounded by Gap Road and Ashcombe Road). Merton Planning application 14/P4637

21C101 said:

Maybe I'm being thick, but why is there a branch from Angel to the middle of nowhere in Hackney?

Click to expand...

According to other maps on the site that's an 'Option for a future Eastern Branch'

http://crossrail2.co.uk/the-route/

MarkyT said:

According to other maps on the site that's an 'Option for a future Eastern Branch'

http://crossrail2.co.uk/the-route/

Click to expand...

Relic of the original CR2 Chelsea- Hackney ("Chelney") route apparently added back in to placate certain London AMs for than area.

MarkyT - have been thinking more about the Victoria "spur" mentioned above.
With 24tph inwards from Wimbledon it doesn't make sense unless the tph is increased but what would you link it to? Witha max of 8tph the economic will be tricky to justify a long tunnel form max 8tph.

SWT Windsor lines - cheaper to get rid of Eurostar down ramp from the Waterloo Curve and closed Queenstown Road. Wimbledon via reinstated Point Pleasant for District relief & extra capacity? Again probably cheaper to do the above.

Southern suburban - Capacity issue with platforms at Victoria and lack of grade separation at Balham and Falcon Jn (WLL - Slows link) but if you wanted to address this it would be cheaper and easier to add a short tunnel from Just south of Balham to Wandsworth Common to Joint the Crossrail Tunnels

SE Capacity isses are further out Herne Hill etc. but a tunnel that far out for 8 tph presumably wouldn't have a sensible BCR.

Overground - The safeguarding covers has "surface" coverage of P0-2 so may be a prpoer redevelopement of those platforms and the entrance on the North side so unlikely?

Hence my thinking it is for construction purposes as the Wimbeldon - Victoria Distance is about right for a long TBM run (8 - 9 miles) with a central London tunnel lenght of 8-9 Miles to the WAML portal or circa 6-7 miles to the Northern Branch Split junction?

I can sort of see where they want to put the tunnel portal, but does that mean no extra platforms at Wimbledon? The current trackwork handles 16tph on the slows, 16tph on the fast, 2tph on the Thameslink, 12tph District Line, and that's not counting Tramlink (which could, probably, be moved out of the way reasonably harmlessly). My understanding is that some service is to be retained on the slows towards Waterloo, so, how is this going to be achieved at Wimbledon?

glbotu said:

I can sort of see where they want to put the tunnel portal, but does that mean no extra platforms at Wimbledon? The current trackwork handles 16tph on the slows, 16tph on the fast, 2tph on the Thameslink, 12tph District Line, and that's not counting Tramlink (which could, probably, be moved out of the way reasonably harmlessly). My understanding is that some service is to be retained on the slows towards Waterloo, so, how is this going to be achieved at Wimbledon?

Click to expand...

I think the best way to get the required capacity through Wimbledon without massive rebuilding of the station is to put the fasts in a new bored tunnel to bypass it completely. Then the residual outer suburban slows can move to the old centre fasts and the Crossrail services can take over the existing slow platforms on the outside, enabling easy cross-platform interchange between the two.

The new fast tunnel would begin between New Malden and Raynes Park where there's plenty of width available and no underbridges and come back to the surface before Earlsfield.

New Malden would be reconstructed with six tracks through the station following removal of the old centre fast platforms.

It will be interesting to see if/how much they double the Raynes Park - Epsom/Chessington branches with 2 tracks in either direction. I'm guessing the reason the track bed is so wide at Motspur Park because this was once intended.