Drogba11CFC
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Trying to reschedule my rail holiday (all line rover + 5 hotels) for the following week is going to be fun... :mad::mad::mad:
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RMT vote 4 to 1 to strike over NR pay
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I love the wibbling.
Any negotiation involves a power imbalance, 99% of the time in the employer's favour. Employers are delighted to exploit it for all it is worth. What else do you think zero hours contracts with exclusivity clauses are about?
Strike action is about restoring that power imbalance a little, but it comes at huge cost to the employee and no cost to the employer. Yes, it is disruptive, that's the whole point. I'm sorry when my own strike action is disruptive to students, but that's not my problem, it's my employer's. If I'm so important they should pay me properly.
It's the same on the railways. If these staff are so important that the Tories want to outlaw strike action, then they are also so important that they should be paid properly for their job.
I love the idea of "sacking" strikers, as though sacking s railway industry won't cause all trains to stop for months and months.
As for those who profess to "hate" trade unions, they can always hand back their holiday entitlement and bank holidays, as well as the right to redundancy money, sick pay, parental leave and fair disciplinary procedures if they value them so little.
Any negotiation involves a power imbalance, 99% of the time in the employer's favour. Employers are delighted to exploit it for all it is worth. What else do you think zero hours contracts with exclusivity clauses are about?
Strike action is about restoring that power imbalance a little, but it comes at huge cost to the employee and no cost to the employer. Yes, it is disruptive, that's the whole point. I'm sorry when my own strike action is disruptive to students, but that's not my problem, it's my employer's. If I'm so important they should pay me properly.
It's the same on the railways. If these staff are so important that the Tories want to outlaw strike action, then they are also so important that they should be paid properly for their job.
I love the idea of "sacking" strikers, as though sacking s railway industry won't cause all trains to stop for months and months.
As for those who profess to "hate" trade unions, they can always hand back their holiday entitlement and bank holidays, as well as the right to redundancy money, sick pay, parental leave and fair disciplinary procedures if they value them so little.
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Bevan Price
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The ballot was on the previous offer - in my opinion, any action over a new offer should require a further secret ballot. The result might be the same, but at least the public could see that there has been a democratic ballot.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Agreed
Sounds a bit like
"We have put the offer NR gave us last week to some unknown members who rejected it, and without going back to NR to seek a better deal we are announcing strike action"
The RMT probably won't be happy even if they get offered something stupid like a 10% pay-rise, bonuses for all workers and no job-cuts for 5 years :roll:
Good way to get the travelling public to sit up, review their options and decide to travel by car rather than by train = less money into the fares pot
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Sure but the question asked didn't really refer to any particular offer. It simply gave the RMT a mandate to announce strike action - forcing a re-ballot every time an employer offers new terms would be ripe for abuse.
Lets not forget that unions themselves are democratic organisations so have a mandate to act on behalf of their members anyway.
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Robertj21a
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Thank you, one of the best posts in this thread.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What is said above about re-balloting sounds both logical and democratic to me as it is giving the whole of the union membership the opportunity to cast their individual votes to reflect their acceptance or non-acceptance of a NEW offer put forward.
Just imagine if in a General Election, your local parish, town or city councillor voted on behalf of all those eligible to vote "to reflect the views of their local electorate". That being said, there are some parts of the Muslim Community in the north of England where voting irregularity of a similar nature did in fact take place over recent elections.
This is more akin to voting for an MP but then expecting a referendum for every individual vote MPs are supposed to be voting on.
I'd be more inclined to accept that if the vote was marginal, like the TSSAs was, then a referendum should be held (and, indeed, is for the TSSA).
But with the resounding mandate given by the RMT ballot I don't think it is unreasonable for the union to decide to reject a pay offer that, like the previous offer, is below the cost of living increase for this year (RPI for November was 2% which is when the previous RPI + offers took their figure) - and has the potential to be next year.
What if the next NR offer is for 1.1% this year and 1.5% next? Do we call off the strike again and re-ballot?
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Alistair G.
Member
I think it's wrong that they can announce a strike without having to re-ballot everyone again. Yes, I understand that union members voted against the offer but a new offer was made and rather than ask all their members they just go to a select few who apparently represent us all in the RMT.
I think if they put it for te-ballot they would be surprised by the amount of people who would actually vote to take the offer. I will be the first to admit that 1% and 1.4% is minimal.... BUT... It's still a wage rise, and a guarenteed one at that!!.
There's lots of other professions (both government and private!) that are offering nothing to their employee's and have done for many years. I'm not saying we should rejoice at the amount offered but sometimes I think you have to know where to draw the line and if we go on strike and lose potentially 3 days pay and any bonus entitlement, when/IF network rail offer slightly more would it really be worth it because of how much we would have already lost?!.
Personally..... Rubbish offer but I would still at least consider it. Action short of a strike I think would be sufficient at the moment
I think if they put it for te-ballot they would be surprised by the amount of people who would actually vote to take the offer. I will be the first to admit that 1% and 1.4% is minimal.... BUT... It's still a wage rise, and a guarenteed one at that!!.
There's lots of other professions (both government and private!) that are offering nothing to their employee's and have done for many years. I'm not saying we should rejoice at the amount offered but sometimes I think you have to know where to draw the line and if we go on strike and lose potentially 3 days pay and any bonus entitlement, when/IF network rail offer slightly more would it really be worth it because of how much we would have already lost?!.
Personally..... Rubbish offer but I would still at least consider it. Action short of a strike I think would be sufficient at the moment
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I am not sure about the union strike pay...what is the union policy. Is it a "blanket" single level payment or is it based on the average daily wage for the industry?
carriageline
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It wasn't new, it was revised. You would also be surprised how many people are fed up, and what an awful offer that was. No one I have spoke to, or seen on the internal forums have said it'd a good offer. The fact that all reps at the meeting bar 2 said no to it shows something.
I'm not sure if I'm happy going on strike about it.
I'm not sure if I'm happy going on strike about it.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Noting what you say above, I did ask, in an earlier posting, did the union negotiating team feel that they had achieved enough to put the matter back to the union membership for their consideration, as if this was NOT the case, the latest negotiated package should NEVER have been put forward to the union membership, which makes the union negotiating team look naïve in such an aspiration, when members like yourself know exactly what is involved.
I agree I'm astounded that this offer triggered a suspension of strike action - personally if I were on the negotiating team acceptance wouldn't have even crossed my mind.
I think the TSSA may have led the way with it though as from the comms I have had from them they do indeed think it is an improved offer - then RMT may have just followed suit for whatever reason. Or an ulterior motive as you suggested earlier...
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£3 per day, and you have to go to the branch to collect it !
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What a load of cheapskates. Imagine if the employers were to offer such a derisory figure. How are union members and their families expected to live on that figure....
hock:Perhaps a ballot by the union membership for a strike to ensure that "living strike pay" is paid.
LBSCR Times
Member
No wonder it was called off on the Bank Holiday Monday.....
With all the enhancements NR staff get for working that day,
(unlike the majority of TOC staff, but then the unions only pay lip service to the TOC staff, unless it is ASLEF!).
Perhaps the union could announce future dates for possible strike action so that people can at least have an idea of dates not to make arrangements for?
(Personally I'm thinking of w/c 20th July as I already have trains/hotel booked and have bookings to make for that weekend).
(Personally I'm thinking of w/c 20th July as I already have trains/hotel booked and have bookings to make for that weekend).
Smudger105e
Member
I am not involved in this dispute which is over pay and conditions
I have been involved with pay, terms and conditions discussions when I was an Engineering Company Council Rep for TSSA.
It seems to me that quite a proportion of the posters on here don't understand how the TU relationship works with Companies and their members.
Margaret Thatcher tightened the requirements for strike ballots, and a ballot resulting in strike action is not a small undertaking. Any ballot involves significant cost to the TU.
People here saying things like "I think the TU should reballot" are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I have been involved with pay, terms and conditions discussions when I was an Engineering Company Council Rep for TSSA.
It seems to me that quite a proportion of the posters on here don't understand how the TU relationship works with Companies and their members.
Margaret Thatcher tightened the requirements for strike ballots, and a ballot resulting in strike action is not a small undertaking. Any ballot involves significant cost to the TU.
People here saying things like "I think the TU should reballot" are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Bevan Price
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For several years, I was a local TU rep., so I do understand the relationship with managements. But one thing I learned is that you can't always get what you want. And also you need to balance what you get with what you lose - and if you strike too often or for too long, you lose money, but you won't get an offer high enough to compensate for what you lose by being on strike.
And don't be surprised if/when Cameron changes the rules to compel ballots after new offers.
Whilst I see some merit in the claim, I fear that some TU leaders are living in the same cloud cuckoo land as Mr Scargill - and remember what happened to the mining industry.
On a single year basis maybe and if your losing a days pay V's then meager rise you will lose out. However; some of the conditions are worth the loss because of what they potentially bring. The worry over redundancies and wanting better job security is well worth a few days pay. Financially in the long term it can still add up. Maybe not this year but year on year and the incremental gain each rise can still be just as important to gain.
Drogba11CFC
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When's the deadline for negotiations to finish?
carriageline
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Plus I'll happily take the hit on my wage now, if it defers the "coming soon" attack on our T&Cs.
Presumably they continue until an agreement is reached.
carriageline
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If the posted from earlier had his own way, the "deadline" would be tomorrow before the strike would definetly have to go ahead!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Drogba11CFC
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I hope they do reach an agreement that averts the strike; Calling FGW and rebooking 5 hotels is not something I want to do.
VauxhallandI
Established Member
The general advice on here is to wait right up to the last minute in case the strike is cancelled. If it isn't then pay through the nose if you can even find an alternative at the last minute....
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