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Great Western Electrification Progress

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Philip Phlopp

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AM9 – Post # 1191 – Not too sure that I have ever implied or attributed 140mph directly to yourself….And if I have, apologies….As I understand it, one of the objectives / benefits of the project is to permit 140mph speeds and is one of the main reasons that NR have said that Lineside masts ( a la ECML ) through the AONB are currently unsuitable for these speeds and is why they were rejected by NR for this project – although earlier this month LNW-GW JOINT stated that they can be adapted.

The masts used on the ECML project are between 10ft and 15ft higher than the masts used on the GWML electrification project, so I don't understand why you would want the enormous headspan masts that feature on the ECML.

Now, talking about the ECML Mk.3b electrification. It cannot support 140mph multiple pantograph operation, but the masts are sufficiently strong enough to see the headspans being replaced by portal structures. This will leave the ECML looking identical to the GWML route, with a custom design Furrer+Frey lightweight gantry making use of the existing masts and the usual Series 1 electrification equipment integrated underneath.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thenorthernheights/15959289912 shows the trial portal assembly on the ECML at Potters Bar, with the previous generation electrification structures in the background (note that this portal makes use of older electrification small part metal work such as the registration arm and insulators)

The UK Series 1 electrification installed at High Marnham is, for me, less intrusive than the Mk.3b electrification system in terms of visual impact, and has the additional benefits of mechanically independent registration, no tail ends being crossed over the track to anchoring points off-set in the cess, spring rather than weighted mechanical tensioning and the 140mph multiple pantograph capability.

It's a much cleaner, far tidier overall electrification system, and one which I'm a big fan off.

I'd also point out, in your photographs you show a signal gantry rather than an electrification structure, beside it is one of the old signal gantries, which existed before the electrification program and new gantry was installed, and it's got a significant visual impact of itself.

I also notice there's domestic electricity supply wires and equipment in the photograph with what looks to be a pole mounted 11kV to 415/240V transformer kit and a telegraph cable running through the shot. I can't take any of your arguments seriously when you show existing 'blight' on the skyline and then complain continuously about new 'blight' on the skyline, which from those houses, will be to comparable levels.

I'm actually looking at detailed plans and overhead imagery and many of those houses have no outlook onto the railway thanks to trees surrounding the property and their orientation, but it's far from unusual to find people complaining about their view from their property being spoiled when they don't actually have a view. It's, I'm sure, a peculiarly British thing.
 
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33Hz

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but NR’s duty is simply to provide the infrastructure and platform for the TOCs to operate their own services….That’s all…. To a Layman such as myself, it’s’ typical of the shambles that is the current UK railway system and network that NR can go ahead and spend £2 billion of taxpayers money to provide a network and platform for the TOC’s to run new equipment, faster trains, more frequent service, etc, etc, but can do nothing about it if the TOCs decide not to or to stick with the same diesel powered equipment - refer to JIMM’s post # 1192 which appears to confirm that none of the freight operators using the Reading > Oxford / Swindon line have yet ordered new electric engines to take advantage of this particular piece of electrification to be provided for them because at the moment they don’t know when they’ll ever be able to run totally ‘point-to-point’ from Southampton throughout the UK….Presumably it’s the same situation with XCountry, but I stand to be corrected….

Of course none of the freight operators are going to order electric locomotives - if the route isn't electrified then they would be pretty useless! Until there is a firm commitment to electrify the entire freight route then they will remain diesel hauled. However that is a total straw man when it comes to electrification of a majority passenger route that has life-expired rolling stock and where a replacement that can use the electrification has been developed alongside the project that will provide the electricity. Network Rail will provide the electrified route, and their access charges and economics will ensure that the TOC runs electrified stock over it.

JIMM – Post # 1192 - Nothing against electrification, but electricity doesn’t just ‘appear’ in the UK – you firstly have to transport or pump fossil fuels half way round the world before burning it to produce electricity….Electrification just shifts the pollution from trackside to the area where the fossil fuels are burned to create the electricity
...
Finally, re this Post and your Post # 1210 re the TGVs here – maybe this would make an excellent, but separate thread or let’s talk through personal mail….In a nutshell, I rarely use them….Nothing to do with electrification, etc, as France produces around 75% of its electricity from Nuclear ( and of which I certainly approve and prefer to burning fossil fuels to create electricity ) compared to less than 20% in the UK – it’s just that I live 60+miles from the nearest TGV station and rarely go north of Avignon….


I would have thought that a man with your obvious Googling skills would have been able to find out that even with the current make up of the UK grid electric traction emits far fewer emissions of CO2 than diesel.

At the present time the grid is 16% coal, 27% nuclear, 27% gas, 11% wind, 10% electricity imports and 8% "other". Hardly the picture of fossil fuel exclusivity you paint.

I know a senior engineer in EDF who said that the business case for Hinkley C and other new nuclear power stations is being built around exactly the type of long term supply contract that Network Rail agreed with them mentioned above, so if you desire to see the UK retain or expand it's nuclear capability then arguing against electrification on the basis of it shifting the pollution elsewhere is counterproductive and not based in fact.


33HZ – If you mean Simon Jenkins journalist / environmentalist, absolutely not….As I said in a previous post, any regular in any bar / restaurant in Bormes-les-Mimosas could most likely tell you my name if you mention X-Trail and useless boules player….


I wouldn't exactly call Simon Jenkins an environmentalist. As an avid campaigner against wind and solar farms, not to mention HS2 (which doesn't help reduce domestic flights), he seems to me to be someone who wants to keep the image of Britain in time like some "Jerusalem" based theme park - regardless as to whether climate change means we end up with a landscape like the south of France in the long term. So as you are at pains to point out - as someone who lives in the south of France, maybe that would be a good result for you :)

But in all seriousness, as you don't live in the area that sparked this debate, does that make you a NIABY? Should those of us living in the UK and (I suspect) younger be forced to live with substandard infrastructure for another generation just to preserve the memories of youth of those that have departed (both geographically and metaphorically)? As others have said, there has been a railway there for 150+ years. The lack of tall posts during the past few decades is an anomaly it would seem coincided with your upbringing.
 

Taunton

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CrossCountry is in a similar situation, as their Manchester-South Coast trains which will run between Reading and Oxford cannot be converted to electric only running until there are wires to Birmingham.
I think many of us were disappointed when the proposal to build pantograph transformer cars for the Voyagers fell through a few years ago, because they seemed a clever solution to many issues, given that the Voyagers have diesel-electric transmission and the new cars would ideally just plug in to the electric systems. They also gave an additional Standard Class car per set, which was really needed. As I understand it things fell apart from the DfT end when Bombardier said they would be constructed in a plant in Europe, not in Derby. Given that the original Voyagers were built in Belgium, it seemed somewhat strange to then baulk at building an additional car per set there. But they would have allowed many of the services to run significant distances electrically powered, right now.
 

edwin_m

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I don't know about light rail and metro networks but I can only assume it will be similar.

Heavy rail projects that don't fall within permitted powers but don't merit a Hybrid Bill, as well as light rail projects, are authorised by an Order under the Transport and Works Act (TWA) 1992. The Order is secondary legislation so arguably less rigorous than the Acts of Parliament that authorised the railways in Victorian times. However it does require a public enquiry for any proposal that is remotely controversial.
 

NotATrainspott

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Heavy rail projects that don't fall within permitted powers but don't merit a Hybrid Bill, as well as light rail projects, are authorised by an Order under the Transport and Works Act (TWA) 1992. The Order is secondary legislation so arguably less rigorous than the Acts of Parliament that authorised the railways in Victorian times. However it does require a public enquiry for any proposal that is remotely controversial.

I was meaning more about the rights of the metro systems to then do works to their own network without needing special permission. For example, would Metrolink need planning permission to put up a radio mast for trams on their own land?
 

GRALISTAIR

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Nothing against electrification, but electricity doesn’t just ‘appear’ in the UK – you firstly have to transport or pump fossil fuels half way round the world before burning it to produce electricity….Electrification just shifts the pollution from trackside to the area where the fossil fuels are burned to create the electricity –

Just very poor research in my opinion. BTW electricity does not just appear anywehere never mind in the UK.

I would point out that the UK's balance of electricity sources is becoming more and more renewable and zero-carbon every year. Network Rail is the single largest purchaser of electricity in Great Britain, actually, using approximately 1.5% of the entire supply, and so they have enormous leverage to get the carbon footprint of their electricity supply reduced. That isn't just hypothetical: NR actually awarded a 10-year supply contract in 2013 to EDF, with all 3.2TWh being supplied by EDF's nuclear power stations.

Who Cares - please see this answer above for a more correct and better researched answer.

I would have thought that a man with your obvious Googling skills would have been able to find out that even with the current make up of the UK grid electric traction emits far fewer emissions of CO2 than diesel.

At the present time the grid is 16% coal, 27% nuclear, 27% gas, 11% wind, 10% electricity imports and 8% "other". Hardly the picture of fossil fuel exclusivity you paint.

I know a senior engineer in EDF who said that the business case for Hinkley C and other new nuclear power stations is being built around exactly the type of long term supply contract that Network Rail agreed with them mentioned above, so if you desire to see the UK retain or expand it's nuclear capability then arguing against electrification on the basis of it shifting the pollution elsewhere is counterproductive and not based in fact.

Another great answer and again better researched.

The result is a dog’s breakfast of a patchwork of an electrified / not electrified UK rail network --.

Not many would disagree with you here, and there is blame to go all round. Starting about the mid 60s the WCML and to Wigan Liverpool and Manchester- Blackpool should have all been done. In the 1980s/1990s the MML and TP should have been done. But we are where we are.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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AM9 – Post # 1191 – Not too sure that I have ever implied or attributed 140mph directly to yourself….And if I have, apologies….As I understand it, one of the objectives / benefits of the project is to permit 140mph speeds and is one of the main reasons that NR have said that Lineside masts ( a la ECML ) through the AONB are currently unsuitable for these speeds and is why they were rejected by NR for this project – although earlier this month LNW-GW JOINT stated that they can be adapted

What I said was that if the government wanted the 125mph ECML OHLE to be upgraded to 140mph, you could leave most of the (ugly, tall, wide) masts in place and refit the wires to new horizontal booms.
That's not saying the design is visually better than the GW scheme, far from it. It just avoids the cost of sawing down all the masts just to put new ones up in their place.
The Series 1 design for the Thames Valley is better (visually) in all respects than the 125mph Mk3 ECML design, and would not be improved if a lower speed than 140mph was mandated.

You might reflect on the fact that the GW main line is probably the last main line in Europe that is intensively worked by (smelly, noisy, polluting) diesel trains.
Anywhere else in Europe they would have electrified it long ago, like all the main lines in France.
The idea is also to give the Thames Valley stations a better train service. Currently they host some of the most overcrowded trains on the network.
Electrification provides that capacity uplift which diesel wouldn't.
Do Pangbourne/Goring/Cholsey commuters want better trains or not?

And I'm not sure why a non-UK-resident/taxpayer should have much of a say in how the UK develops its transport infrastructure.
 

Taunton

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The idea is also to give the Thames Valley stations a better train service. Currently they host some of the most overcrowded trains on the network.
Electrification provides that capacity uplift which diesel wouldn't.
Overcrowding is nothing to do with whether the traction is diesel or electric; it is due to the amount of rolling stock supplied/leased/got out of the siding - or not.

Some of the other "most overcrowded trains on the network" are operated by London Midland on intermediate services on the electric WCML, with units capable of 12-car formation, platforms likewise, and paying passengers turning up in quantities which justify this, only to then find a single 4-car unit provided. The most squashed trains on the Thames Valley services likewise. Unbelievably, you can find peak hour services running on the GW Main Line there which are 2-car units.
 

edwin_m

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Overcrowding is nothing to do with whether the traction is diesel or electric; it is due to the amount of rolling stock supplied/leased/got out of the siding - or not.

But solving the overcrowding is more expensive using diesels than electrics - especially as a large piece of the route is already electrified.
 

jimm

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Overcrowding is nothing to do with whether the traction is diesel or electric; it is due to the amount of rolling stock supplied/leased/got out of the siding - or not.

Some of the other "most overcrowded trains on the network" are operated by London Midland on intermediate services on the electric WCML, with units capable of 12-car formation, platforms likewise, and paying passengers turning up in quantities which justify this, only to then find a single 4-car unit provided. The most squashed trains on the Thames Valley services likewise. Unbelievably, you can find peak hour services running on the GW Main Line there which are 2-car units.

If you mean the Greenford jobs, then you are also probably well aware they are going to be banished from the main line. You won't find two-car sets elsewhere on the GWML in the peaks these days unless they are attached to another two-car or a three-car set - or something has broken down.
 

Who Cares

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Still legally UK resident and, therefore, still a UK Taxpayer...The former by choice, the second by consequence....

And wish I did have a say in developing the UK's transport infrastructure....As it is, just opinions like most of us on here....
 

Who Cares

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A few posts up the page, I’m no longer a NIMBY but now I’m a NIABY….Not really….I’ve already said that I’m broadly in favour of electrification throughout the whole UK rail network ….Ah well – at least I won’t ever be accused of being a NIMBYSIDGAF I hope….

I have been asked several times about what I mean by reference to NR’s lack of Social Responsibility….Maybe a quick recap and timeline of NR’s approach and lack of due process to this Project in relation to the AONBs might explain….

NR produced their first Environmental Statement Volume 1 in October 2012, with supplementary Statements following over the next few months….In relation to the AONB, the Environmental Statement Volume 2 – South Oxfordshire District Council ( SODC ) was released in December 2012 and Environmental Statement Volume 1B – South Oxfordshire District Council ( SODC ) in January 2013. All three documents included identification and assessment of environmentally sensitive areas in the Chilterns and North Wessex Downs AONBs which would be affected by the Project.

There then followed some basic consultations between NR and SODC and other affected Parish Councils during 2013 and early 2014, but as the final Electrification Design Plan was not released until December 2014, the consultations resulted in SODC and Parish Councils being required to give ‘consent’ through Schedule 2 Part 11, etc, etc without even knowing exactly what they were consenting to. The date December 2014 is particularly strange, as NR started tree clearing and the first piling works in the Goring Gap in 2013, and erecting the first pylons in late summer 2014. It is safe to assume, therefore, that the extent and type of pylons, gantries, etc, was known within NR but was not communicated to SODC and Parish Councils until after the works had started. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

As part of its statutory obligations, NR was supposed to consult with the AONBs and affected Parish Councils on the extent and type of mitigation where the Project would adversely affect environmentally sensitive areas. Quite simply they failed to do so – and have now admitted this in their statement released in April 2015 which included an apology for failing to do so due to ‘ In our Environmental Statement for electrification work in the area, we committed to consulting on mitigation measures at the detailed design stage. We apologise for this and are now in a position to work with the community on possible mitigation measures ‘ So NR are now prepared to start discussing possible mitigation measures almost 18 months after tree clearing and piling began, and six or eight months after the first pylons and gantries were installed. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

The first of these promised consultations, in April 2015, was cancelled at short notice by NR – as they did not wish the meeting to be attended by the public and by residents of affected communities. Meanwhile, the erection of pylons, and by now gantries, continued in the AONB without any mitigation measures having been offered by NR and discussed with the AONBs and affected communities. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

The first Consultation ( albeit behind closed doors ) eventually took place in early May 2015, almost three years later than it should have been, and by which time, although maybe because, NR had already undertaken sufficient engineering works and tree clearing so that any meaningful mitigation in terms of types of pylons and gantries cannot be reversed. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

Subsequent to the meeting, at which NR appeared to be surprised to learn that they have failed to meet their statutory obligations under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 ( as amended ) and under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, NR agreed to provide a revised consultation plan including proposed mitigation measures. Although received late, NR provided written replies to questions raised and discussed at the meeting. The replies stated, quite categorically, that NR had no plans to address the findings and conclusions of their own Environmental Statements, particularly in relation to the design and type of pylons and gantries to be used. Although this was no surprise, the surprise was that NR have taken this position knowing that they are required to adhere to the findings of their own Environmental Statements and change their infrastructure plan which is, in fact, a statutory requirement in an AONB. To have replied in this way, knowing that they are in breach of their statutory obligations was either deliberate obfuscation or plain stupid. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

However, NR offered, as a potential mitigation, to carry out a retrospective tree planting programme alongside the track through the AONB when the engineering works are completed. But as this is impossible within the boundaries of the track, it would require (1) the purchase of land alongside both sides of the track, much of which is peoples’ gardens, and (2) it is unlikely that trees up to 60ft high can be purchased and successfully replanted even if the land is acquired, this appears to be a ‘throwaway’ attempt at providing mitigation proposals. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

A second meeting was held a few days ago. In addition to the representatives of the affected communities, the meeting was attended by the Planning Officer of the Chilterns AONB who provided evidence that NR has failed in its statutory requirements vis-à-vis the area of electrification in the AONB. This includes, amongst others, failure to hold proper consultation; failure to take account of the statutory requirements of the major environmental impact of the development within the AONB; and failure to mitigate harm to AONB landscapes on and off site. In a sudden turnaround, NR have now confirmed, in writing, that ‘ if required ‘ ( and which is understood to mean if required by Legal Ruling, presumably ) they ‘ will take remedial action in the Goring / South Stoke area ‘ So somewhat late in the day, someone inside NR has started to realise that many of NR’s actions, or inactions, over the past couple of years, have been illegal and / or unethical. This is what I mean as lack of Social Responsibility.

Finally, for those of you more interested in the progress of the Project, subsequent to the June meeting, all engineering work appears to have stopped in the area between the south east of Goring to as far as the Moulsford Viaduct, with numerous ‘ unpaired ‘ pylons and gantries still lying at the side of the track waiting installation. Hopefully someone in NR has started to take their statutory responsibilities, if not Social Responsibilities, seriously, perhaps.
 

Domh245

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The fact that NR didn't at least consult with the local parishes until after work had started isn't brilliant, but I suspect there were reasons other than "as they did not wish the meeting to be attended by the public and by residents of affected communities".

It's interesting that NR offered to plant trees alongside the route, given that recently they went on a bit of a tree-clearance rampage (so to speak) to reduce the issues that they cause (leaves on the line, blown over, etc). I suspect that the remedial action NR are referring to will either be painting masts in that area, or perhaps building up more substantial walls around the track, but not knowing the area brilliantly, it's difficult to guess what they plan. That said, the last time I drove through the area (probably about march) I noticed some gantries in the cutting where the A329 crosses the line, but they didn't seem all that obstructive.

As for the suggestion of changing the OHLE type through the AONB, it seems unlikely that this would have happened anyway. Series 1 was designed for minimal impact (and as I understand it - with public consultation on the aesthetics of the design) whilst still allowing the desired operating characteristics, so any changes would have either very expensive (and it's not as if they've got money to blast through!) or would have compromised operations.
 

jimm

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So Network Rail could have done better on consultation - you could probably say the same about all manner of major infrastructure projects here and abroad.

You seem to be under a misapprehension about the role of parish councils - they cannot 'consent' to anything, because they don't possess such powers, which rest with the district council. They are statutory consultees, whose views are invited, but that's all. And that's no different from the AONB, which does not have the kind of powers over planning that national parks do. One also has to wonder where the AONB and South Oxfordshrire's planning officers were for the past few years while Network Rail was apparently failing to do all the things it was supposed to. I would have though part of their job was supposed to be keeping on top of such things.

I suspect the reason that the first meeting was cancelled was that someone somewhere had been giving people the impression it was open to all and sundry, which would clearly not have been the case given that from what you say, those in attendance subsequently were statutory consultees, with the parish councils there as the representatives of the affected communities.

And no wonder, as an open meeting would clearly have been very rapidly bogged down with people going on about trees, whether that be felling or planting. Or slapping paint on things. I have just been looking out of a window at a slate grey sky against which a galvanised steel mast would blend in rather better than a dark green tree 100 yards way is doing right now.

Had the pre-mid-1980s railway tree-cutting regime been continued for the past three decades - as it clearly should have been given the constant problems we endure with leaves on the line - then there would not have been any trees within the railway boundary to be felled in the first place. And, given the issues with proximity of trees to 25,000v live cables there most certainly should not be any in future, so peoples' gardens are the right and only place for trees to go.

Never mind that for every person demanding a rectilinear forest along the railway - which will mean train passengers wouldn't be able to appreciate the Goring Gap anyway - there will be another opposing it who does not want tall trees blocking out the light to their garden (leylandii ring any bells here?)/views across the countryside etc.

And any such rectilinear forest would be a far more obvious feature in the landscape than the railway line, with or without overhead catenary. Not that I understand the belief that planting trees all over the place is some infallible environmental boon anyway. The activities of the Forestry Commission haven't done a great deal to enhance landscapes in a lot of places across this country.

Never mind that the Goring Gap is not some pristine wilderness, with plenty of signs of human activity all the way through it, such as villages, visitor attractions, big houses stuck up in prominent positions, roads and the railway. Maybe we should fill every scrap of land between Moulsford and Tilehurst not already touched by human hand with trees, then no one would be able to see anything at all - problem solved:roll:.

You can go on all you like about social responsibility but ultimately all you seem to be interested in is trying to pretend that the railway isn't there by hiding it behind a wall of trees - which is just not going to happen.
 

snowball

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Press release:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...repare-baths-railway-line-for-electrification

Network Rail’s ‘orange army’ has hit the first week milestone in the project to prepare Bath’s railway line for electrification, with all work currently on schedule.

The £50m project started on Saturday 18 July and involves lowering 10km of track through Dundas Aqueduct, Box Tunnel, Middle Hill Tunnel and Sydney Gardens, as well as the installation of 11 new sets of points.

The purpose of lowering the track is to make room for the overhead line equipment that will be needed to power a new fleet of longer, faster, quieter and greener electric trains to run underneath. By lowering the track it also removes the need to make significant changes to Bath’s historic architecture.

Over the last week the ‘orange army’ has completed track-lowering work under the A4 at Box Ashley and through Middle Hill Tunnel on the main line towards London Paddington.

Despite being on schedule, the work has not been without its challenges. These have included the discovery that some ‘catch pits’ – part of the railway’s drainage system - in the tunnels had deteriorated to a greater extent than expected. As a result the team has widened the scope of the electrification project to ensure those affected are replaced.

Why does the west portal of Box tunnel give such a false indication of the headroom? If it was really like that no works would be needed!
 

Who Cares

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JIMM....

You're point about Parish Councils and District Councils is a good one....

The Parish Councils would have been able to discuss, contribute and 'consent' had there been appropriate consultation between NR and the District Council ( in this case SODC ) and were therefore considered as having 'consented' as they were unable to object either directly or via SODC as there wasn't a full plan available to object / consent to until December 2014....

The role of SODC in this affair, is, however, pretty poor....You'll notice on Page 17 - 3.1 Summary of Stakeholder Engagement on the Scoping Report of the Atkins Environmental Statement Volume 1A 2012 that SODC didn't initially respond. A couple of the Parish Councils involved are not even sure that SODC actually cascaded / distributed the Scoping Report to them....Certainly none of the Parish Councils were invited to the preliminary discussions between NR and SODC which took place in July 2011 and May 2012 and at which point they would have been more aware of the Project....Whatever the exact circumstances, and some of the people involved are no longer with us to answer so I won't state here categorically, there is a natural suspicion that there was a degree of NIMBYSIDGAFitis inside SODC which left the door open for NR to continue without appropriate and correct consultation, mitigation, etc....It is also suspected that some of the members and officials of SODC simply rolled over in the face of NR's 'what we want, how we want, where we want, and we don't need your permission' approach....Whatever the truth, SODC have a large responsibility for what has happened, and it is perhaps more than coincidence therefore, that the Goring Gap was one of first areas of track on which engineering works started....

The AONB's did take an immediate and continuing interest - although Chilterns AONB can be forgiven for not 'keeping on top' of what was happening as they have something far more important on their plate....

And reference to tree planting etc....I think you've perhaps misunderstood my comment....Buying parts of peoples' gardens in order to plant trees, etc, is an absolutely idiotic idea and is why I referred to it as a ' throwaway ' by NR just so that they can now be seen to be suggesting and ready to discuss mitigation schemes....
 
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jimm

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Press release:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...repare-baths-railway-line-for-electrification



Why does the west portal of Box tunnel give such a false indication of the headroom? If it was really like that no works would be needed!

Brunel liked to make an impact with his tunnel entrances, the portals of Chipping Campden tunnel on the Cotswold Line being another case in point, with stone arches around the tunnel entrances contrasting with brickwork wings but both are tucked away from footpaths so not much photographed and rampant vegetation growth and deterioration in the stone (with bricks used for patching) in recent decades has rather spoiled the effect.

The interiors were another matter, with more practical considerations, such as ensuring a strong enough bore, taking precedence. Hence that brick arch inside Box, while at Chipping Campden yet more brickwork had to be added for strength inside the original bore around 1900 or so, meaning it is a pretty snug fit for the double track these days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
JIMM....

You're point about Parish Councils and District Councils is a good one....

The Parish Councils would have been able to discuss, contribute and 'consent' had there been appropriate consultation between NR and the District Council ( in this case SODC ) and were therefore considered as having 'consented' as they were unable to object either directly or via SODC as there wasn't a full plan available to object / consent to until December 2014....

The role of SODC in this affair, is, however, pretty poor....You'll notice on Page 17 - 3.1 Summary of Stakeholder Engagement on the Scoping Report of the Atkins Environmental Statement Volume 1A 2012 that SODC didn't initially respond. A couple of the Parish Councils involved are not even sure that SODC actually cascaded / distributed the Scoping Report to them....Certainly none of the Parish Councils were invited to the preliminary discussions between NR and SODC which took place in July 2011 and May 2012 and at which point they would have been more aware of the Project....Whatever the exact circumstances, and some of the people involved are no longer with us to answer so I won't state here categorically, there is a natural suspicion that there was a degree of NIMBYSIDGAFitis inside SODC which left the door open for NR to continue without appropriate and correct consultation, mitigation, etc....It is also suspected that some of the members and officials of SODC simply rolled over in the face of NR's 'what we want, how we want, where we want, and we don't need your permission' approach....Whatever the truth, SODC have a large responsibility for what has happened, and it is perhaps more than coincidence therefore, that the Goring Gap was one of first areas of track on which engineering works started....

The AONB's did take an immediate and continuing interest - although Chilterns AONB can be forgiven for not 'keeping on top' of what was happening as they have something far more important on their plate....

And reference to tree planting etc....I think you've perhaps misunderstood my comment....Buying parts of peoples' gardens in order to plant trees, etc, is an absolutely idiotic idea and is why I referred to it as a ' throwaway ' by NR just so that they can now be seen to be suggesting and ready to discuss mitigation schemes....

I'll tell you why the Goring Gap - actually the section of the line to the west of Pangbourne station - was one of the first places work started. Because the prevailing conditions were such that the infamous HOOP train was deemed unsuitable to tackle the area, hence more traditional and time-consuming methods of piling for mast planting were employed. Hardly a sinister plot.

Re trees, if your general contention is that planting lots of trees along the line constitutes desirable 'mitigation' then they are going to have to go somewhere and that somewhere is not going to be within the railway boundary, which makes suggesting putting them in people's gardens practical, not idiotic. Problem is that, as I noted previously, many people may not want trees anyway, whether Network Rail was to acquire a strip of their garden or not.
 

Who Cares

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Idiotic idea in the sense that right now not too many people or businesses in the Goring Gap would be all that anxious to sell parts of their gardens or farm land to NR given what NR might subsequently do with it, as owners, under Schedule 2, Part 11, etc, etc....
 

RP

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Road-rail vehicles operated by Keltbray have been piling in the Pilning area in the last few weeks.

Noticed quite a long run of piles actually in place for electrification alongside the up line between Bishton Crossing and Llanwern West Junction, up to milepost 155m60ch travelling Bristol to Newport earlier today. Didn't notice them alongside the up lines or reliefs going out earlier. There is a lot of tree and vegetation clearance going on the both sides which took my attention. Elsewhere a few piles were lying along the side here and there but there are also large gaps.

Work has started in preparation for replacement of Whitewall footbridge in Magor area followed by Undy Halt footbridge. Most of the Newport area bridge reconstructions, etc. have firmer dates against them too on NR's GWML electrification pages. Some tangible evidence of progress!
 
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QueensCurve

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Now, talking about the ECML Mk.3b electrification. It cannot support 140mph multiple pantograph operation, but the masts are sufficiently strong enough to see the headspans being replaced by portal structures. This will leave the ECML looking identical to the GWML route, with a custom design Furrer+Frey lightweight gantry making use of the existing masts and the usual Series 1 electrification equipment integrated underneath.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thenorthernheights/15959289912 shows the trial portal assembly on the ECML at Potters Bar, with the previous generation electrification structures in the background (note that this portal makes use of older electrification small part metal work such as the registration arm and insulators)

That does look delectably Swiss!
 

dmncf

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Slightly off topic but I heard today that North Pole depot is now available for use again from this week. I am not saying that it will be in use any time soon but it can be used IF required.

Does anyone have a rough idea when the first Hitachi train might move to North Pole for testing there?

I'm sure I've seen old press articles saying this should have happened already but, like the rest of the GWML works, it wouldn't be surprising if this was behind schedule.

Apologies, Mods, if this belongs in a different existing or new thread!
 

kylemore

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Does anyone have a rough idea when the first Hitachi train might move to North Pole for testing there?

I'm sure I've seen old press articles saying this should have happened already but, like the rest of the GWML works, it wouldn't be surprising if this was behind schedule.

Apologies, Mods, if this belongs in a different existing or new thread!

Does anyone know if the BR era electrifications such as the WCML and ECML all proceeded without any hitches and to schedule?

Really they shouldn't bother with an exact budget and timetable for these projects which anyone with any common sense knows are impossible to accurately predict.

The Govt/NR should simply say we're spending £1.5billion APPROX (could be half a billion either way - we'll let you know exactly how much when we finish it) electrifying such and such line and it'll be ready when it's ready - just be glad we're doing it at all after decades of neglect!
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Does anyone know if the BR era electrifications such as the WCML and ECML all proceeded without any hitches and to schedule?
Really they shouldn't bother with an exact budget and timetable for these projects which anyone with any common sense knows are impossible to accurately predict.
The Govt/NR should simply say we're spending £1.5billion APPROX electrifying such and such line and it'll be ready when it's ready - just be glad we're doing it at all after decades of neglect!

The original WCML scheme was redesigned several times before it reached Euston.
It's the usual story. Manchester/Liverpool-Crewe was done no expense spared on BR's terms, and was heavily overengineered.
They then realised the pot was emptying and simplified the design southwards.
The project was "paused" around 1961 (when BR finances collapsed), and restarted with a reduced budget.
That's why manual signal boxes were kept at Stockport and in the Trent Valley.
Those at Stafford are just being replaced now. The "Stockport 5" survived even the recent WCRM upgrade after another bungled design cost megabucks and had to be cancelled.

The 1974 extension to Glasgow went much better and took much less time.
Though some would say its design was not good enough to cope with extreme wind over the fells.
This scheme originally included local electrification in Lancashire, but that was deleted leaving only the main line.
The omissions are only now being rectified in the NW scheme.

The ECML went much more smoothly, but not before it was subject to many rounds of examination and cost reduction before the spend was authorised.
Importantly, the resignalling and general route upgrade was done separately and was already in place - BR just had to get the wires up.
The current GW project is beset by route/signalling upgrades going on in parallel to the wiring.
The TP scheme can't even decide on the basic design.

Investment budgets don't work on "we'll tell you how much it will cost when we've finished".
There has to be a business case to borrow the money and the lenders (banks, governments) want to know how each tranche is being spent.
Otherwise it just becomes a gravy train for the contractors and suppliers.
At the end of the day it's taxpayers' money.

Network Rail (like Railtrack/BR before it) is not trusted by government after historic fiascos and is subject to repeated spending reviews.
ORR does the dirty job of trying to keep the spend on track.
 
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edwin_m

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The ECML went much more smoothly, but not before it was subject to many rounds of examination and cost reduction before the spend was authorised.
Importantly, the resignalling and general route upgrade was done separately and was already in place - BR just had to get the wires up.

I agree with most of your post but not that part. The York and particularly Newcastle re-signallings were completed only just before electrification was switched on and would have been going on in parallel with electrification works in the same places. At one point BR management threatened to take the HSTs away even if the electrics were not able to operate, and run 158s instead.
 

CdBrux

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Really they shouldn't bother with an exact budget and timetable for these projects which anyone with any common sense knows are impossible to accurately predict.

The Govt/NR should simply say we're spending £1.5billion APPROX (could be half a billion either way - we'll let you know exactly how much when we finish it) electrifying such and such line and it'll be ready when it's ready - just be glad we're doing it at all after decades of neglect!


And to ensure a balance between expenditure & income then should Govt also adopt a similar approach to (regulated) ticket prices and your taxes? "We'll tax at 20p for basic rate... but it might be 18p or 22p depending on how much we spend, we'll give you a rebate / surcharge when we've seen how much we spent..."
 

snowball

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Further to the historical remarks above, there was a lot of concern at the time that WCML north from Weaver Junction was not authorised in time to be a smooth follow-on to the southern half. Manchester and Liverpool to London were completed in 1966 and the Birmingham area in 1967, but Weaver Junction northwards was not authorised until 1970. The time gap seems small when seen from this distance but it seemed a big matter at the time.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Another press release:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...nd-stage-of-electrification-work-through-bath

Network Rail’s ‘orange army’ has entered a critical stage of its work to prepare Bath’s railway line for electrification, with work commencing to lower the tracks through Dundas Aqueduct, Bathampton Junction and Sydney Gardens.

Over the last week the team has successfully lowered the main line that runs towards London Paddington through Box Ashley and Middle Hill Tunnel, and is continuing to progress well with lowering the same line through Box Tunnel, having now reached the Corsham end.

All work is on schedule to complete by September 1, with the ‘orange army’ planning to revisit the above locations in a couple of weeks’ time to lower the main line that runs towards the South West.

Andy Haynes, Network Rail’s project director for the west of England, said: “I am pleased to say we continue to be on plan, with some aspects of the work completed ahead of schedule.

“We know this is no time for complacency though, particularly given the crucial stage we are at. Our work through the historic monument that is Dundas Aqueduct requires special measures, which is why we have worked closely with Bath and North East Somerset Council and Historic England to ensure we preserve its historic architecture.”

The second phase of Network Rail’s work requires the closure of the lines between Westbury and Bathampton Junction.
 
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HowardGWR

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Why Dundas Aqueduct? This explanation came from another poster on 15th July.

"The work at Dundas Aqueduct is actually widening to accommodate the Class 165s. I wonder if work needs to be done at Avoncliff too?"

So I can understand that. However it's not strictly electrification work is it? I mean, if another not so wide (or is it length in respect of Avoncliff?) unit had been re-allocated, then it would not have been needed.

Are we sure it isn't just to ensure a level track when it meets the lowered junction at Bathampton?
 
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