Virgin West Coast reservation signage

Taunton · 3 Sep 2015

Went yesterday from Euston to Manchester and back.

At Euston, waited while the train was "Preparing", then it was announced, so presumably was now prepared. Down the ramp, walked to the front (so another several minutes), on board. Look for what seats are reserved. None. Nothing shown on the displays at all. Everyone sits down. Only then do the displays spring into life with most of the seats reserved. And here come the people for the seat I am in.

Get up, move a couple of coaches forward, where the repeat operation takes place, because it appears that not all coaches are activated at the same time. Displays initially blank, then they come to life just a few minutes before departure. And guess what, my seating bay is fully Reserved again. So move yet again.

That now the majority of the seats are reserved, but only a small fraction have someone sitting there, and we are non-stop to Stoke, is a separate matter.

RailUK Forums

JaJaWa · 3 Sep 2015

Don't West Coast keep a carriage free from reservations, and advise you sit there if you don't have one?

Howardh · 3 Sep 2015

I can barely read the displays; and on my last trip I sat on an unreserved seat in 1st...only to find someone turned up with the seat booking so I had to move...it still said *unreserved*.
Time to scrap reserved seating or go back to the old card in the slot me thinks?!

cool110 · 3 Sep 2015

JaJaWa said:
Don't West Coast keep a carriage free from reservations, and advise you sit there if you don't have one?

Yes, on Pendolinos it's F&U for 11 car and E for 9 car.

Taunton · 3 Sep 2015

cool110 said:
Yes, on Pendolinos it's F&U for 11 car and E for 9 car.

However are passengers meant to know this?

I did notice yesterday that, northbound in particular, with probably a 25% load, most of the seats were actually reserved, but most of the passengers, from the way they were bending to peer at each seat's display, did not have one.

This however is separate to the issue of not switching the displays on until most of the passengers have boarded and sat down anywhere.

Bletchleyite · 3 Sep 2015

Howardh said:
I can barely read the displays; and on my last trip I sat on an unreserved seat in 1st...only to find someone turned up with the seat booking so I had to move...it still said *unreserved*.
Time to scrap reserved seating or go back to the old card in the slot me thinks?!

The usual rule if reservations are not placed is that they do not apply. It would help though if stickers were added to clarify this.

broadgage · 3 Sep 2015

Yes, but in this case the reservations were placed (electronically) before departure, but after most passengers had boarded.
This is IMO unacceptable.

Reservations should be put in place before the train is advertised on the departure board.

AE · 3 Sep 2015

Taunton said:
However are passengers meant to know this?

At Euston they very often have big signs on the platform next to coaches F and U pointing out that they are totally unreserved. I think smaller stations may have posters on the walls.

Bletchleyite · 3 Sep 2015

broadgage said:
Reservations should be put in place before the train is advertised on the departure board.

A very South East approach. At Manchester Piccadilly people are treated as grown-ups, and platforms are advertised without waiting for the train to actually be there.

What is needed is a software mod to the Pendolinos that say "RESERVATIONS DOWNLOADING PLEASE WAIT" while they are still downloading, or "RESERVATIONS DO NOT APPLY" when they are not working. You can tell they are downloading because the green backlight doesn't light until they all have, but a more explicit indication would solve the issue.

Tracky · 3 Sep 2015

I was surprised a few weeks ago to join a pendo to hear the announcement along the lines of...

The reservations have not been loaded but please sit in your reserved seat if you have one.

...Virgins normally high quality customer service went out of the window with argument after argument over 'you're sin my seat'

hulabaloo · 3 Sep 2015

AE said:
At Euston they very often have big signs on the platform next to coaches F and U pointing out that they are totally unreserved.

Think that's a bit harsh on the unreserved ticket holders :lol:

IslandDweller · 3 Sep 2015

My most recent journey was on a 9 car pendolino, which had had one of the first coaches converted to standard (so standard was A to F rather than A to E as is usual on a nine car). The unreserved coach was F.
I agree with the underlying criticism. The reservations are loaded very late and the displays are hard to read.

Senex · 3 Sep 2015

Neil Williams said:
The usual rule if reservations are not placed is that they do not apply. It would help though if stickers were added to clarify this.

But not, from my experience, on CrossCountry, where they treat all reservations as still valid even when the displays are not working and there is no substitute labelling.

Minilad · 3 Sep 2015

What annoys me is when the vast majority of seats are reserved and then the train departs and 40-50% of the reserved seats have no one sitting in them

tsr · 3 Sep 2015

hulabaloo said:
Think that's a bit harsh on the unreserved ticket holders

It's the sort of problem which could be elegantly resolved on information materials (eg. posters) by swapping the letters round. "Coaches U and F" doesn't exactly have the same problem.

gordonthemoron · 3 Sep 2015

which is the unreserved coach on a Virgin Super Voyager? Is it supposed to be C?

chris89 · 3 Sep 2015

gordonthemoron said:
which is the unreserved coach on a Virgin Super Voyager? Is it supposed to be C?

Correct it is C on the Supers.

Chris

Bletchleyite · 3 Sep 2015

tsr said:
It's the sort of problem which could be elegantly resolved on information materials (eg. posters) by swapping the letters round. "Coaches U and F" doesn't exactly have the same problem.

I wonder if, to remove this confusion/offence (!), they might consider a re-letter to ABCDEF(GH)JKL once all the 9-cars have had G converted to Standard.

BurtonM · 3 Sep 2015

That begs the question that all the 11 car trains should be re-lettered too, though.
On a 9-car, it's F that's unreserved assuming the extra 1st carriage has been removed. I welcome the return of unreserved on the 9 car sets: when a 9 showed up on an 11 car diagram, it used to be a real pain finding a seat, especially a table.

Bletchleyite · 3 Sep 2015

BurtonM said:
That begs the question that all the 11 car trains should be re-lettered too, though.

Yes, I was suggesting all of them could be relettered to remove coach U. So ABCDEF would be Standard coaches on all trains, G standard on 11 cars only, H First on 11 cars only and JKL First on all trains.

Mag_seven · 3 Sep 2015

On practically every pendo I've been on recently where I have joined at the starting station the seat reservations have not displayed until after departure - come on "beardy", get it sorted!

Skie · 3 Sep 2015

The simple Pendo rule is the standard coach nearest to first class is always unreserved. If there are 11 coaches then the next standard coach along is also unreserved. No need to remember letters

AngusH · 3 Sep 2015

Having experienced this problem myself, I'm curious what the cause is.
Is it:

a) human error, someone is slow pushing a button somewhere
b) software failure, it should update faster/automatically

?

I have rather more sympathy with human error than software failure.
The first being inevitable sometimes, the second being something that should be fixed.

However if it is human failing, then it ought to be worked around somehow.

Jonfun · 3 Sep 2015

The train has to have signal to dial into the system so it can download the reservations. If there's a fault with the communications equipment on the train then it will struggle to do this effectively, likewise if it's in an area where signal may be reduced (eg due to terrain or surrounding buildings) then it may struggle. You see quite often that they'll put the next trip in a short while before the train's arrival at it's terminus in order to try and give it as much chance as possible to download.

Mag_seven · 3 Sep 2015

likewise if it's in an area where signal may be reduced (eg due to terrain or surrounding buildings)

What like a terminal station such as Euston or Birmingham New St you mean.

AngusH · 3 Sep 2015

Jonfun said:
The train has to have signal to dial into the system so it can download the reservations. If there's a fault with the communications equipment on the train then it will struggle to do this effectively, likewise if it's in an area where signal may be reduced (eg due to terrain or surrounding buildings) then it may struggle. You see quite often that they'll put the next trip in a short while before the train's arrival at it's terminus in order to try and give it as much chance as possible to download.

It sounds like the system can only store the current reservations file?
Rather than allowing future services to be downloaded and stored ahead of use?

I suppose if a system was being built new today, then it would download and store the whole day's reservations for all of the services and then allow incremental updating as changes occurred.
With perhaps some kind of continuous synchronisation to allow the best chance of downloading the data and probably access via multiple media (external station wifi, 3g/4g mobile, physical disk, etc)

Which would probably fix the whole problem.

Alas, technology progress and the benefit of hindsight

Bletchleyite · 3 Sep 2015

AngusH said:
Alas, technology progress and the benefit of hindsight

True - the technology is probably around 15 years old (the units themselves have been in service over 10 years now I think!) - that's a long time in technology terms.

Taunton · 4 Sep 2015

Neil Williams said:
True - the technology is probably around 15 years old (the units themselves have been in service over 10 years now I think!) - that's a long time in technology terms.

It's also a ludicrously long time not to have sorted out a basic flaw.

Actually, I don't remember it as an issue a few years ago.

Bletchleyite · 4 Sep 2015

Taunton said:
It's also a ludicrously long time not to have sorted out a basic flaw.

True.

Actually, I don't remember it as an issue a few years ago.

It always has been I think.

JaJaWa · 4 Sep 2015

tsr said:
It's the sort of problem which could be elegantly resolved on information materials (eg. posters) by swapping the letters round. "Coaches U and F" doesn't exactly have the same problem.

Displayed that way on the screens at Manchester Piccadilly.

Virgin West Coast reservation signage

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