Police cars and level crossings

DasLunatic · 7 Sep 2015

This has probably been discussed before but...

Say there is a car chase in a rural area. The criminals approach a level crossing, as the barriers close. A police car follows them, but the barriers are closed by the time it gets to the crossing. There is no helicopter or other units. What should the police do?

RailUK Forums

221129 · 7 Sep 2015

Nothing. The Police or any other emergency service are NOT permitted to 'race the crossing.'

najaB · 7 Sep 2015

DasLunatic said:
What should the police do?

Wait for the barriers to rise. Train v car is always a win for the train.

Matt-the-mutt · 7 Sep 2015

An incident in Peterborough a few years ago is a suitable answer https://youtu.be/c1-4QBxzIoA?t=1m12s something along these lines. "let it go, let it go"

Cherry_Picker · 7 Sep 2015

najaB said:
Wait for the barriers to rise. Train v car is always a win for the train.

It's usually a loss for both if truth be told, but yeah, the car loses harder.

najaB · 7 Sep 2015

Cherry_Picker said:
It's usually a loss for both if truth be told, but yeah, the car loses harder.

Okay, it's 8-1 in favour of the train.

route:oxford · 7 Sep 2015

DasLunatic said:
This has probably been discussed before but...

Say there is a car chase in a rural area. The criminals approach a level crossing, as the barriers close. A police car follows them, but the barriers are closed by the time it gets to the crossing. There is no helicopter or other units. What should the police do?

Let the criminals think they have got away with it, then using skill and judgement catch up with them once the barriers have reopened.

jopsuk · 7 Sep 2015

nothing is allowed to pass the warning lights used on a crossing- this is why the same sort of lights are used for lifting/swing bridges and for the exits of Fire Stations (particularly) with poor visibility. They warn of dangers that a blue light does not get of!

Paul180 · 7 Sep 2015

Ok not a police car but an ambulance but it I believe it is a rare occurrence at manned level crossing. I take it the the train was been held at the station at the time and nothing was approaching the other way as not to throw the signal back to danger in the drivers face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9h6EgNB2WU

6Gman · 7 Sep 2015

DasLunatic said:
This has probably been discussed before but...

Say there is a car chase in a rural area. The criminals approach a level crossing, as the barriers close. A police car follows them, but the barriers are closed by the time it gets to the crossing. There is no helicopter or other units. What should the police do?

Stop.

dk1 · 7 Sep 2015

Police & Emergency services have no durestiction over level crossings. They may stop traffic but that's it.

Saint66 · 7 Sep 2015

Yes, as others have posted, procedure is to halt the pursuit, as the risk is not worth it. The pursuit commander at HQ would also request that the officers halt, if they mention in their commentary that they are approaching a level crossing which has lights flashing etc...

A car which crashes through a barrier would probably be deemed too dangerous to pursue anyway, because of the danger they pose to others, and the level of risk they are willing to take to get away, and the pursuit may well be called off completely. That is a rare scenario of course though.

Of course, once the barriers are up, the officers can attempt to catch up with the fleeing vehicle. Whether they have any luck doing so is another matter, however.

ainsworth74 · 7 Sep 2015

Perhaps there needs to be a gentlemen's agreement that whilst engaged in a pursuit if the pursuee and the pursuer come to a level crossing that is down then both shall stop until the barriers are raised and the police shall make no attempt to apprehend the pursuee until after the barriers are back up again?

najaB · 7 Sep 2015

ainsworth74 said:
Perhaps there needs to be a gentlemen's agreement that whilst engaged in a pursuit if the pursuee and the pursuer come to a level crossing that is down then both shall stop until the barriers are raised and the police shall make no attempt to apprehend the pursuee until after the barriers are back up again?

Seems only fair.

Marton · 7 Sep 2015

Paul180 said:
Ok not a police car but an ambulance but it I believe it is a rare occurrence at manned level crossing. I take it the the train was been held at the station at the time and nothing was approaching the other way as not to throw the signal back to danger in the drivers face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9h6EgNB2WU

I am told that when the maternity hospital in Northallerton was not in the hospital and a woman deeded a Caesarian in the main hospital they had to ring the signal on to ensure trains were held till she was over the crossing.

Haydn1971 · 7 Sep 2015

DasLunatic said:
This has probably been discussed before but...

Say there is a car chase in a rural area. The criminals approach a level crossing, as the barriers close. A police car follows them, but the barriers are closed by the time it gets to the crossing. There is no helicopter or other units. What should the police do?

I've had reason to ask this question professionally - answer from a police driving instructor was that under no circumstances should a officer in pursuit use a crossing in contravention of a signal saying stop. No criminal is worth loosing your life or putting others as such great risk.

gimmea50anyday · 7 Sep 2015

I have seen ambulances awaiting the barriers at malton while the train has been stood in the station and the train still had priority. If the crossing is manned, or if otherwise the signaller can see the crossing, i do believe that the signaller can elect to allow the emergency vehicle to pass, but only if it is safe to do so. It will depend on where the train is in relation to the signals, linespeed, stopping distance, the delay etc.....

Of course correct me if im wrong.....

Haydn1971 · 7 Sep 2015

Subject to intervention from level crossing operatives, the barriers/signals could be changed to give priority to traffic on the road - that's not the same as running against the signals

gimmea50anyday · 7 Sep 2015

Paul180 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9h6EgNB2WU

Oh, good call from the signaller there at Brokenhurst! Mind all pax trains stop there so delay wouldnt really have been an issue, but thats what im talking about!

TOCDriver · 7 Sep 2015

The police will never cross a LC when the lights are red, as shown in a few past historical cases. When a pursuit is considered too dangerous to continue, plod wil always back down
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

gimmea50anyday said:
Oh, good call from the signaller there at Brokenhurst! Mind all pax trains stop there so delay wouldnt really have been an issue, but thats what im talking about!

If that had been a high speed train approaching, the Ambulance would have had to wait. As it was, it seems the class 2 train was only just setting off from a stop so the signaller had time to allow the ambulance through. Great work and observation for the signaller though

PermitToTravel · 7 Sep 2015

It's surprising nobody tried to follow the ambulance through!

GB · 7 Sep 2015

Once the signals are cleared there's very little the crossing operator can do and the emergency services are trained well enough to sit and wait...they don't even sit there with their sirens going off.

TOCDriver · 7 Sep 2015

GB said:
Once the signals are cleared there's very little the crossing operator can do and the emergency services are trained well enough to sit and wait...they don't even sit there with their sirens going off.

A lot of local line crossings do have plenty of time to prevent a train from departing, even if the barriers are already down, if an emergency vehicle comes on by. Parbold cabin and Bamber Bridge being one good example on my routes.

GB · 7 Sep 2015

There's a big difference between just having the barriers down and having the barriers down AND signals cleared.

If the signals have been cleared and there is a train on approach or at the station the you will need to wait for the interlocking to time out after you have put the signals back. This can be anything from 2-4 minutes depending on installation. This often causes more delay than just letting the train go.

TOCDriver · 7 Sep 2015

GB said:
There's a big difference between just having the barriers down and having the barriers down AND signals cleared.

If the signals have been cleared and there is a train on approach or at the station the you will need to wait for the interlocking to time out after you have put the signals back. This can be anything from 2-4 minutes depending on installation. This often causes more delay than just letting the train go.

Depending on installation being the operative words. Down in my neck of the woods, it can be done instantly

E&W Lucas · 8 Sep 2015

It's awful to go past an LC, and see an ambulance there on blue lights. On high speed routes, you know he's been sat there several minutes before you go past. I only hope that they are briefed to avoid such routes, if there is a viable alternative.

SPADTrap · 8 Sep 2015

I've passed over crossings with stations just in advance that I've been stopping at only to see a fire engine or two waiting patiently at the barriers with their lights on responding to a shout, not a lot you can do but it doesn't make you feel great.

Yabbadabba · 8 Sep 2015

This reminds me of recent history, where the signaller (I think on the marches line) thought the approaching train had passed, replaced the protecting signal to danger and raised the barriers. Only for the train to be travelling to fast to stop, passed the signal at danger and over the level crossing and hitting a car with the result of one fatality. I've always worked once barriers are down and I've cleared my signals that's the way it stays not matter what with blues & two is waiting.

SouthEastern-465 · 8 Sep 2015

As mentioned in many other of the above posts, the pursuit would be called of no questions about it.

Slightly off subject, and away from level crossings in particular. If there is a chase with a vehicle that's getting out of hand and poses a danger to life, or to the public the pursuit is usually called off as the outcome could be possibly fatal otherwise. An Inspector or someone else in the control room will usually listen to the commentary ad decide if it's safe or not IIRC. You can only hope air support is about otherwise you've just gotta let them go!

Regards

Paul180 · 8 Sep 2015

PermitToTravel said:
It's surprising nobody tried to follow the ambulance through!

I was as well

Police cars and level crossings

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