Rail staff dont deserve to be abused by Customers like i have seen..

321446 · 11 Sep 2015

I drive DOO, so while I'm certainly customer FACING, my interactions are limited by my window to the most part. I do, honestly, understand the frustrations of commuting on my services. I used to do it myself. I also have occasionally found myself under the influence of a small dry sherry or two. Therefore I try to maintain a sense of decorum in my dealings with the more challenging individuals. As others have said, while however tempting it would be to terminate a rant with a swift one up the conk may be, I think I would find that career limiting. Professional, icy, politeness does go a long way with most people. And despite my company's intensive 2 day Customer Care course leaving me less inspired than it was intended, I've found that there are some people you are NEVER going to placate. Even people in yellow hi-viz with radios, night-sticks, pepper spray, Alsatians, hand-cuffs, transit vans & blue flashing lights won't make an impression with them. It all comes down to experience. Life experience too.

Platform staff, Revenue Protection, Guards & Conductors have my honest unwavering respect. I've got a locked door & an uncoupling bar. They've got their personality.

RailUK Forums

AndrewP · 11 Sep 2015

This is an issue I care passionately about as I believe that everyone should be treated with courtesy and basic manners.

For those in customer facing roles you have my respect as I simply do not have the temperament to cope with rude and irrational people day in day out.

I wish more people would say please and thank you (my kids can do this so an adult should be able to) and show more respect for staff - if your train is late it could also mean that the staff member on it will also be late home.

I will complain formally if needs be but also will compliment formally when the service I receive demands it.

Whereas there are some people in customer facing roles who are in the wrong job (I can give some examples from the rail industry) there are others who are fantastic (a northern guard who made my eldest son's day - not saying how if its against the rules - but my son will never forget, a Cross Country Train Manager who went above and beyond the minimum for first class and the hosts in first class on Hull Trains who did all they could when the train broke down yet still got grief from one passenger who seemed to think they were personally responsible for a broken down train (I didn't get directly involved (maybe I should have) but gave a business card so they could use me as a witness for them if a complaint was made) to name a few examples)

A big thanks to all those who deal professionally with the public.

londonbridge · 11 Sep 2015

Saint66 said:
Sadly, staff in all jobs which are customer facing, in all industries, get use to this sort of abuse, and I'd wager that railway staff suffer more than most.

Even in my first job at the age of 17, as a member of staff at a supermarket, I was collecting trolley's in the car park, when all of a sudden, a gentleman came up to me and started swearing and screaming at me because someone had parked in a disabled bay without a disabled badge. Sure, that person should not have parked there, but what am I, a 17 year old, in a high vis jacket, pushing trolley's around, meant to do about it?

A small minority always let down the majority.

I've had similar in my supermarket work, I apologised to a customer that the product she wanted was out of stock due to a supply issue and she let rip, calling the store and everyone in it useless and there was no point having offers if we didn't have the stock available, and peppering her language with multiple counts of the f word, I just told her to calm down and follow me, walked her to the customer service desk, asked the girl to 'call the duty manager please, this lady has a complaint', and walked away.

northernrail2009 · 11 Sep 2015

I had some Messages from Northern on Twitter last night about it but not heard anything back from them.

So take it that they are not bothered about it so take it that the guy got away with it.

ANorthernGuard · 11 Sep 2015

northernrail2009 said:
I do not work on the Railways but use them a lot and yesterday Thursday my blood boiled seeing a Northern rail guard being abused by some low life person.

I got onto the 18.21 Macclesfield to Manchester service and there was a guy sat with feet on seat drinking from a can of larger and you could just tell he did not have a ticket he stood out from the crowd big time.

so the train guard and checked tickets just after leaving Macclesfield and he got to this chap and asked for his ticket and at 1st played like he didnt hear the guard so again the guard asked for his ticket and he gave the guard a ticket from Manchester to Congleton dated Wednesday so the guard said no he would like to see the right ticket and if not he would have to buy a ticket and then this is when this person kicked off and abused the guard with his gob telling the guard he was a F---ing fat **** and really being nasty to him to that the guard told him he was going to be kicked of at the next station unless he stopped his mouth and paid for his ticket.

so he kept on and then paid for he ticket but then said he got on a Macclesfield which he did not as i got on there and he was on the train sat down when i got on.

so as he kept mouthing of at the poor guard he told this person he would be met by police at Manchester but not sure if that happened as i got of before then and i tweeted northern about it but they did not seen that bothered which makes me think they dont really give a dam about there staff being abused like i had seen yesterday.

i really hope this guy was met by police at Manchester as no person should put up with the crap that came out of his gob.

The guard i though handled it very well and hope his bosses will see that but fear they wont.

Rant over

I hope my workmates ok The Macc line can be a pita sometimes especially evening/night time. Abuse is daily and the majority of us have skin thick enough to manage it but its still not nice and can grind you down. In extreme cases like this I hope the btp did turn up but they are so short staffed its unlikely and with the advent of DOO in the future people like this culprit will see it as a free ride everytime.

R4_GRN · 11 Sep 2015

Is it practical for the railway operators to ban passengers travelling with them as they do on the airline? I realise you do not have to give a name or ID with train travel but surely persistent offenders could be stopped.

bramling · 11 Sep 2015

Peter Mugridge said:
On 17th August I was on the 16.54 from Waterloo to Epsom; departure was delayed about 5 minutes while staff removed a drunk and disorderly woman who looked to be in her 60s from the rear carriage.

The language she came out with which led to her removal ( and subsequently aimed at the staff and a bloke who I imagine must have been her long suffering husband ) during her removal was strong enough that even some men re-positioned themselves further along the carriage even before the staff arrived to eject her.

Any idea that older people are better behaved / more polite / more well-mannered is a complete misnomer. In fact, quite often, old people can be the *worst*.

Tetchytyke · 11 Sep 2015

R4_GRN said:
Is it practical for the railway operators to ban passengers travelling with them as they do on the airline?

They can, there are plenty of people with ASBOs banning them from trains.

The problem is, of course, enforcing it.

tony6499 · 11 Sep 2015

Bodiddly said:
I have a solution that would solve two problems at once. Remove this low life scum element who have probably never worked a day in their life and resettle thoroughly decent Syrian refugees who would die for the chance to better their lives. I am sick to the back teeth listening to horrible, nasty individuals moaning about how life owes them a living. I have some real concerns about how public facing staff will have to deal with more and more instances of abuse as the social fabric of this country erodes further and further. This abuse is starting at a very early age as schools have lost their ability to punish bad behaviour with more and more parents making complaints because their little Johnny was given a ticking off for punching someone.
Discipline starts in the home but all to often the parents are incapable or absent. I'm certainly not saying we should go back to the days of discipline with violence, no way but people have to be made accountable for their selfish actions.
Rant over!

Funny enough on my old patch the worst problems came from Eastern Europeans and refugees from places like Somalia.

Just goes to show you can't generalise about people can you ?

ANorthernGuard · 11 Sep 2015

A tw*t is a tw*t regardless of Colour, Age, Wealth, Sex.

johnnychips · 11 Sep 2015

ANorthernGuard said:
A tw*t is a tw*t regardless of Colour, Age, Wealth, Sex.

Where's the like button?

Unfortunately, if you don't provide resources to deal with them, they will continue being tw*ts as they get away with it. And this attitude starts at school, as I know very well.

HH · 12 Sep 2015

Fact 1 is that there are jerks everywhere. However those with sociopathic tendencies are more likely to come from the lower levels of society and may well have suffered abuse or trauma. Those with psychopathic tendencies are often very successful. Neither type gives a damn about anyone else. They are best avoided; simple as.

Fact 2 is that people tend to behave worse when under the influence of drink or drugs.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

bramling said:
Any idea that older people are better behaved / more polite / more well-mannered is a complete misnomer. In fact, quite often, old people can be the *worst*.

Actually this is a medical fact, which has been highlighted by recent medical research. IIRC the basic premise is that we develop part of our brain as we grow up, that acts as a sort of censor on our immediate reactions to events. As we get older this part of the brain is one of the first to be affected, which is why old people tend to say things that the rest of us find rude or offensive.

47802 · 12 Sep 2015

HH said:
Fact 1 is that there are assholes everywhere. However those with sociopathic tendencies are more likely to come from the lower levels of society and may well have suffered abuse or trauma. Those with psychopathic tendencies are often very successful. Neither type gives a damn about anyone else. They are best avoided; simple as.

Fact 2 is that people tend to behave worse when under the influence of drink or drugs.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Actually this is a medical fact, which has been highlighted by recent medical research. IIRC the basic premise is that we develop part of our brain as we grow up, that acts as a sort of censor on our immediate reactions to events. As we get older this part of the brain is one of the first to be affected, which is why old people tend to say things that the rest of us find rude or offensive.

Interesting but it is fair to say that when I get to retirement I intend to be rude and offensive to everybody just for the hell of it

I was on the train to Castleford yesterday morning and 2 regulars were discussing incident from the previous day, which had led to the guard claiming assault and a passenger being removed by Police, but they were not supportive of the guard at all describing him as a **** ****

nidave · 12 Sep 2015

Its not just on the railways, I get it all the time at work - you are the focus of the anger - you just smile and ignore it. Usually I have to literally bite my tongue to stop laughing in the face of the person for making a fool out of themselves. You just keep calm and wait for the rant to end then do what you need to do

Iskra · 12 Sep 2015

Arctic Troll said:
And the problem is that often these people appear as ill-behaved drunken yobs because of mental health issues.

IME- a different sector but just as public-facing- it's usually the suited and booted ones who are the worst. The narcissists and the sociopaths who are "don't you know what I earn/who I am" are some of the absolute worst people to deal with. I much preferred working with the stereotypical council estaters than those self-entitled halfwits.

Generally speaking it is best to be exceptionally nice to people like that, they can't stand it.

This. I work in a customer facing/duty manager role and there are plenty of rude customers of which there are many different types, but none of them know what to do if you're ridiculously nice to them and just let their comments go unnoticed. It silences them very quickly. I see the same people every day and using this approach some of those who were horrible to me when I started my role, are now very pleasant with me.

However, abusive customers require a different approach. As soon as someone swears at me (which is getting rarer to be fair) then I refuse to serve them and firmly but politely ask them to leave.

What people don't understand is, that if you're pleasant you'll get better service, it will cost you less and when that one time comes when they really need helping out, they'll get it and I'll go above and beyond for them. If you're rude, it'll be 'tough' and I'll do the bare minimum my job description states I must.

Minilad · 12 Sep 2015

"Don't you know who I am?"

"Ladies and gentlemen, does anyone know the identity of this person. As he seems to have forgotten

ainsworth74 · 12 Sep 2015

Minilad said:
"Don't you know who I am?"

"Ladies and gentlemen, does anyone know the identity of this person. As he seems to have forgotten

I thought you were supposed to avoid conflict and de-escalate confrontational situations :lol:

Minilad · 12 Sep 2015

ainsworth74 said:
I thought you were supposed to avoid conflict and de-escalate confrontational situations

Where's the fun in that

HH · 12 Sep 2015

Minilad said:
"Don't you know who I am?"

The best example I know of this was a Commercial Director at one former East Anglian TOC when asked to show his ticket by the Guard.

Legend.

Peter Mugridge · 12 Sep 2015

HH said:
The best example I know of this was a Commercial Director at one former East Anglian TOC when asked to show his ticket by the Guard.

Legend.

In that instance:

"Yes Sir, I know who you are but your own board has repeatedly told us that we cannot make any exceptions to the rules..."

bb21 · 12 Sep 2015

ainsworth74 said:
I thought you were supposed to avoid conflict and de-escalate confrontational situations

It's easy for him to say it seeing that he locks himself away in his cushy cab.

I feel for the poor sod who works his trains with him.

Minilad · 13 Sep 2015

bb21 said:
It's easy for him to say it seeing that he locks himself away in his cushy cab.

I feel for the poor sod who works his trains with him.

Clearly you have never seen a 170 before! :lol:

ungreat · 13 Sep 2015

As a DOO driver of many years and many train loads of drunks,football morons,business tossers,chavs and various other assorted flotsam I agree with most of whats been said.
But...I have to ask...What is "a can of LARGER"?
Larger than what? Is it some beverage that makes you bigger?

ANorthernGuard · 13 Sep 2015

ungreat said:
As a DOO driver of many years and many train loads of drunks,football morons,business tossers,chavs and various other assorted flotsam I agree with most of whats been said.
But...I have to ask...What is "a can of LARGER"?
Larger than what? Is it some beverage that makes you bigger?

Only in their tiny brains lol

duffield · 14 Sep 2015

Arctic Troll said:
They can, there are plenty of people with ASBOs banning them from trains.

The problem is, of course, enforcing it.

It's not so much that the ASBO or equivalent stops them travelling. It's more that *if* they travel again *and* kick off to the extent that they are arrested, or if the train crew recognize them, they can be done just for being there without the need to prove any other specific offence.

bramling · 14 Sep 2015

HH said:
Fact 1 is that there are jerks everywhere. However those with sociopathic tendencies are more likely to come from the lower levels of society and may well have suffered abuse or trauma. Those with psychopathic tendencies are often very successful. Neither type gives a damn about anyone else. They are best avoided; simple as.

Fact 2 is that people tend to behave worse when under the influence of drink or drugs.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Actually this is a medical fact, which has been highlighted by recent medical research. IIRC the basic premise is that we develop part of our brain as we grow up, that acts as a sort of censor on our immediate reactions to events. As we get older this part of the brain is one of the first to be affected, which is why old people tend to say things that the rest of us find rude or offensive.

That's fine (and interesting), however what I find annoying is many old people then talking about how older people are somehow better mannered (etc).

My local WHSmith is a depressing experience at 0830 on a weekday morning. Full of old people in there all for a morning paper, all making a fuss if they have to queue (there wouldn't be a queue if they weren't there), and generally being abusive to the cashier about the queue, how much the newspaper costs, or anything else they can find to moan about.

It's the same on the railways. Old men and young women I find to be by far the most abusive groups, as a generalisation.

LowLevel · 14 Sep 2015

You have a WH Smith's where you can use a manned checkout rather than a self checkout without being given the retail equivalent of a threatened knee capping for suggesting it?

I thought such places no longer existed.

Antman · 14 Sep 2015

bramling said:
That's fine (and interesting), however what I find annoying is many old people then talking about how older people are somehow better mannered (etc).

My local WHSmith is a depressing experience at 0830 on a weekday morning. Full of old people in there all for a morning paper, all making a fuss if they have to queue (there wouldn't be a queue if they weren't there), and generally being abusive to the cashier about the queue, how much the newspaper costs, or anything else they can find to moan about.

It's the same on the railways. Old men and young women I find to be by far the most abusive groups, as a generalisation.

I rarely if ever see a queue in my local WH Smith, there are usually more staff than customers at 08.30, and I rarely see old men or young women being abusive on the railway.

Llanigraham · 14 Sep 2015

bramling said:
That's fine (and interesting), however what I find annoying is many old people then talking about how older people are somehow better mannered (etc).

My local WHSmith is a depressing experience at 0830 on a weekday morning. Full of old people in there all for a morning paper, all making a fuss if they have to queue (there wouldn't be a queue if they weren't there), and generally being abusive to the cashier about the queue, how much the newspaper costs, or anything else they can find to moan about.

It's the same on the railways. Old men and young women I find to be by far the most abusive groups, as a generalisation.

Don't worry, you'll be a grumpy old person one day!!

al78 · 15 Sep 2015

Llanigraham said:
Don't worry, you'll be a grumpy old person one day!!

You are confident he won't have a tragic accident in the near future then?

Not all old people are grumpy, I know plenty of old people that are very pleasant. It is a subset that think their existence on the planet for some number of decades entitles them to say and do what they want, and have everything their own way, and don't give a damn about the consequences to anyone else.

Rail staff dont deserve to be abused by Customers like i have seen..

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