Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

Gathursty · 14 Sep 2015

RichmondCommu said:
So comparing Boris Johnson to Jimmy Saville wasn't a low blow? At best your comment was ill advised.

My view on Saville is in line with most people. The comparison was obviously exaggerated to demonstrate my point and I find it more disturbing how Tories thought it'd be a good idea to sign up to vote in the Labour election, turn up to hustings and do all manner of odd things to try to sabotage the Labour election. I can't recall Labour trying to sway things in other parties internal elections but may be not all parties swoop to such lows.

I think that the Tories charging £25 to allow members voting rights makes them think they are somehow worth more than the £3 paying Labour members. Every party should charge the same IMO as there is no way paying more shows more loyalty. Some people can ONLY afford £3 in this day and age which is a mark on the Tory party.

My view on Boris is that he's just after a legacy over doing anything practical to help struggling Londoners. Boris Bikes, Boris Islands, Boris Supercycleways. Why doesn't Boris create affordable homes or more social housing in London instead?

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RichmondCommu · 14 Sep 2015

valenta said:
Corbyn has only been elected for two days, however, and as yet has not put any policies forward as leader of the Labour Party, thus without this factual base, the Conservative Party should not yet be releasing such videos, hence why I see it as scaremongering. The Tories are creating this black propaganda for their own political gain, not out of the interest of the public, hence why an e-mail sent out to Conservative supporters finishes with something along the lines of "we must never let Labour into power again".

So are you suggesting that he wasn't serious about any of his policies / ideas that he was promoting prior to the leadership election and that he will in time make a dramatic u-turn on his attitude to NATO, who we are currently relying on to carry out maritime patrols of our waters at a time when the Russian Navy are becoming more active in the North Atlantic?
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Gathursty said:
My view on Saville is in line with most people. The comparison was obviously exaggerated to demonstrate my point and I find it more disturbing how Tories thought it'd be a good idea to sign up to vote in the Labour election, turn up to hustings and do all manner of odd things to try to sabotage the Labour election. I can't recall Labour trying to sway things in other parties internal elections but may be not all parties swoop to such lows.

Please lets not start blaming others, the fact that we as a party made it so easy for others to sabotage our own leadership election is our own stupid fault and it really does beggar belief. It was obvious that our political opponents would take advantage, to suggest otherwise is incredibly naive. What the Tories did was simply common sense.
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Gathursty said:
I think that the Tories charging £25 to allow members voting rights makes them think they are somehow worth more than the £3 paying Labour members. Every party should charge the same IMO as there is no way paying more shows more loyalty. Some people can ONLY afford £3 in this day and age which is a mark on the Tory party.

The Tories charge £25 to guard against any of their political rivals causing mischief during their leadership elections! It has nothing to do with them believing that they are more worthy or that they are more loyal to their political party. I'm sorry but you are simply peddling excuses for the fact that we were incredibly naive as a party. Only time will tell if we have learn't any lessons from this.

Butts · 15 Sep 2015

As Corbyn is an OAP perhaps the Tories should elect Ken Clarke to succeed Cameron when he retires.

"Walking Sticks at Dawn " - that would be a laugh

yorksrob · 15 Sep 2015

RichmondCommu said:
In all honesty with Jeremy Corbyn in charge of the Labour Party and his views on NATO I'm starting to think that they've got a point

And yet on issues such as the EU, I find the blind enthusiasm of the rest of the party far more naive and worrying.

DynamicSpirit · 15 Sep 2015

Gathursty said:
I find it more disturbing how Tories thought it'd be a good idea to sign up to vote in the Labour election, turn up to hustings and do all manner of odd things to try to sabotage the Labour election. I can't recall Labour trying to sway things in other parties internal elections but may be not all parties swoop to such lows.

That's a good point. One thing that seems to have been forgotten is that amongst all the arguments about non-members being able to vote in Labour's elections, the Conservatives have been doing exactly the same thing! Anyone has been able to vote for the Conservative's candidate in the London mayor election on payment of - not even £3 but £1. As far as I can see you don't even need to declare yourself a Conservative supporter - if you live in London, that's sufficient. This has not, so far as I can tell, caused any controversy whatsoever. I suspect there are a few reasons for that, one of which is probably the lower profile of that contest. But undoubtedly another reason it hasn't caused any controversy is that there's no significant desire within Labour to infiltrate and damage other party's elections, in the way that many Conservatives seem to want to do.

Robertj21a · 15 Sep 2015

fowler9 said:
Labour MPs seem to have decided they disagree with the will of their own activists and members.

Hardly surprising when they are elected to represent their constituents.....

pemma · 15 Sep 2015

RichmondCommu said:
Yes because he knows that the David Cameron will make him, and indeed the rest of the Party look stupid. That's why he's trying to pass the buck on to the general public and his own MP's. And lets face it the majority of those MP's will keep their mouths shut (if they have any sense) out of pure embarrassment.

When Cameron was absent most recently and Osborne stood in, with Hilary Benn standing in as leader of the opposition some newspapers called Osborne an embarrassment and questioned why Benn hadn't been given a more active role previously and that was the Daily Mail and Telegraph!
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Butts said:
As Corbyn is an OAP perhaps the Tories should elect Ken Clarke to succeed Cameron when he retires.

"Walking Sticks at Dawn " - that would be a laugh

Or Boris can dye his hair grey and you could convince everyone he's a pensioner who has a glass of Sherry before making any public appearance.

asylumxl · 15 Sep 2015

jcollins said:
Or Boris can dye his hair grey and you could convince everyone he's a pensioner who has a glass of Sherry before making any public appearance.

Judging by his behaviour sometimes, I reckon he probably already drinks something stronger than a glass of sherry...

WelshBluebird · 15 Sep 2015

RichmondCommu said:
Not all the activists and not all the members. We must say a special thanks to Ed for allowing all and sundry to vote providing they raid the bank for three quid. Many thanks to Ed for an absolute master stroke in how to sabotage the election.

You know based on the votes that Corbyn would have won without the £3 votes right? Pretty much 50% of ordinary votes and a decent majority of the union votes went his way in just the first round. Those in the party who dislike him / oppose him really need to wake up to the fact this is what the majority of the party want.

Johnuk123 · 15 Sep 2015

It is a very long tradition that when a new party leader enters the commons for the first time his own side will enthusiastically welcome him with loud cheering and whooping.

Yesterday Corbyn was greeted with complete silence, not a sound was heard as labour members looked at the floor and shuffled uncomfortably, even the Tories looked shocked as he was blanked big-style.

Doesn't matter how many loudmouth, whistle blowing, face painted activists want you in when your own MP's literally blank you and treat you with disdain you're in big big trouble, even Comrade Len won't be able to buy you out of that one.

You know you're in trouble when an enthusiastic labour paper like the Mirror doesn't think the shadow cabinet reshuffle merits more than page 4.

muz379 · 15 Sep 2015

Not who I voted for in the leadership election and not who I want to see leading us into the next election .I could write much more about the things I disagree with him on but I respect the decision of the members and think that mp's with all of their infighting and briefing against him in the press should at least give him a chance to show what he is about and how he is going to bring the government to account which is now one of his jobs as the leader of the opposition .

One thing I am interested in seeing is how strongly he pushes the party whip to make sure MP's stick to the party lines . Given that he has been a prolific rebel in votes over the years .

fowler9 said:
This whole talk of paying off the nations debt is odd, the whole western ecomomy is based on debt and other people making money off it. How many people on here own their house outright? I do. Go me. If we got rid of debt tomorrow a lot of big financial organisations would cease to exist.

I agree with the sentiments .But I dont think anybody is suggesting we completely get rid of the national debt , I dont think there has ever been a date since records began when there was zero national debt . I think everyone does agree that the national debt needs to be under control , currently it is rising and the interest payments alone are around 50bn a year .

Domh245 · 15 Sep 2015

I can't be sure if this has already been posted, but I'll give my thoughts. Corbyn and his 'new old labour' will typically appeal to people in urban areas (based on his policy ideas) and in areas where there are large amounts of young people (university cities). If we look at the previous election results you can see that labour have done well in the type of areas I have previously mentioned. I am of the opinion that under Corbyn, we may well see the labour vote consolidated in these constituencies, but if you want to see a Labour government in 2020, then you need to convince the vast swathes of country which aren't full of young people, or people who subscribe to a left-wing ideology to vote labour. You may end up gaining some seats back from parties such as the green party, or possibly even the SNP, but I think you'll have a hard time convincing all of the people in middle england!

Also, I ran the numbers from the vote and excluded the £3 supporters. Corbyn still came out with 51%, with Burnham on 23% so it is fair to say that he does have a definite mandate from his own 'conventional' party, albeit a slim majority. I do wonder if had it gone to a second and third round, would he have got over 50% or would the preferences of the other voters seen Burnham get in instead.

Monty · 15 Sep 2015

Despite my profession I've never been a Labour voter, as someone who spent their formative years during the Blair/Brown era I have never really gotten the impression that the party was ever the party of the people. It like all the other mainstream parties in this country are only interested in grabbing votes to secure their power bases at the next election. Jeremy Corbyn is a man I can respect, rather than sit on the fence like most do in an attempt to please everyone he does take a stance on things regardless if you believe it to be right or wrong. Unfortunately his views on things such as NATO and trident are something I will never agree with and I am unlikely to vote for labour while he is in charge for the forseeable future.

pemma · 15 Sep 2015

Johnuk123 said:
It is a very long tradition that when a new party leader enters the commons for the first time his own side will enthusiastically welcome him with loud cheering and whooping.

Yesterday Corbyn was greeted with complete silence, not a sound was heard as labour members looked at the floor and shuffled uncomfortably, even the Tories looked shocked as he was blanked big-style.

Doesn't matter how many loudmouth, whistle blowing, face painted activists want you in when your own MP's literally blank you and treat you with disdain you're in big big trouble, even Comrade Len won't be able to buy you out of that one.

You know you're in trouble when an enthusiastic labour paper like the Mirror doesn't think the shadow cabinet reshuffle merits more than page 4.

Corbyn's in an unusual position. He only just got enough MP nominations to stand as leader and some of those who nominated him did so just to 'widen the debate.' However, more local Labour groups backed Corbyn than any other candidate meaning he was the most popular candidate with Labour supporters but the least popular candidate with MPs.

Hornet · 15 Sep 2015

I've a horrible feeling of deja vu. I well remember the 70's and 80's, with the young Corbyn and Livingstone shaking hands with the vermin that is Sinn Fein/IRA outside the London County Hall. I also remember those great (sic) Labour stalwarts of Derek Hatton, Eric Heffer, Joan Maynard, (described once as Stalin's Granny) and the Union bosses, the likes of Derek Robinson, Mick Mcgahey and Arthur Scargill. I hope that Tom Watson, an MP that I do admire, can use his influence to moderate some of Corbyn's views, and views that some Unions seem to be formulating.

Much as those who voted for Corbyn believe he has a mandate for his view on what policies a Labour Britain should adopt, they must remember that without the concensus of the British public in a General Election, they will remain just that, policies. I do not want to see another Labour Manifesto labelled "The Longest Suicide Note in History".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh4yh95N4Jg

me123 · 15 Sep 2015

Wow, I think the Daily Mail's about to have a stroke. The desperate anger being vented at Jeremy Corbyn is nothing short of spectacular, hilarious, and desperate all at the same time.

"Jeremy Corbyn, who has campaigned for the Queen to be replaced by a president, did not sing God Save the Queen"
"Mr Corbyn, who was dressed in non-matching jacket and trousers and had failed to properly button his shirt"
"Mr Corbyn looked relaxed"
"Corbyn 'not sure' if he will turn up at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday"
"Mr Corbyn, chairman of the Stop the War Coalition, twice refused to say whether he would wear the white poppy of the pacifist movement in preference to the traditional red one."
Link

And, of course
RICHARD LITTLEJOHN imagines what would happen to the pomp and circumstance of the Proms if Corbyn ever came to power
Huh? Since when did the Prime Minister have any control over the Proms? I suppose Littlejohn's knowledge of the remit of the Prime Minister has become somewhat muddled since his move to Florida.

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Sep 2015

me123 said:
"Corbyn 'not sure' if he will turn up at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday"

Even Michael Foot in his duffle-coat turned up for that tribute to those who gave their life for their country.

If Jeremy Corbyn, in his new role, does not attend, how will that be viewed by all sides of this debate?

DynamicSpirit · 15 Sep 2015

Paul Sidorczuk said:
Even Michael Foot in his duffle-coat turned up for that tribute to those who gave their life for their country.

If Jeremy Corbyn, in his new role, does not attend, how will that be viewed by all sides of this debate?

I think Paul that you may be missing the point here. It would seem utterly implausible for there to be any serious doubt that Jeremy Corbyn will attend remembrance commemorations. The point is rather that the Daily Mail are apparently doing their utmost to spin stories so as to cast Corbyn in the most unfavourable light they possibly can, even when there is little basis for doing so.

From what I've read elsewhere about the reports from Corbyn's meeting with MPs and what was said there, it seems like it has been mentioned that his actual plans for the day are not yet definite (hardly surprising given he's only just become Labour leader, and he's had much more urgent stuff to deal with), and it's possible (but not yet decided) that he may choose, as is his custom, to wear a white poppy. It seems that the Daily Mail, for reasons that are probably not hard to guess, has chosen to spin this so as to falsely make out that Corbyn might be intending not to remember and honour the dead.

Mojo · 15 Sep 2015

Gathursty said:
I would not like to see Boris Johnson become PM because he is creepy* and I have never seen him outside of the M25, unless it's abroad.

*He looks funny and acts like a buffon. He really does remind me of Saville.

Before Mayor of London (and for a short while after election) he was the MP for Henley, which is definitely outside of London!

Hornet · 15 Sep 2015

Mojo said:
Before Mayor of London (and for a short while after election) he was the MP for Henley, which is definitely outside of London!

Also was seen in Liverpool once making an apology.

valenta · 15 Sep 2015

Regarding the Daily Mail reaction to Corbyn not singing the national anthem, can I draw your attention to the following two articles published within a day of each other.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-Right-Honourable-member-Privy-Council.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-greets-David-Cameron-time-Labour-leader.html

Corbyn can't win.
The national anthem was a very small part of the service and it's ridiculous to argue that he was disrespectful to those who had died by not singing.

Darandio · 15 Sep 2015

Hornet said:
Also was seen in Liverpool once making an apology.

Pretty certain he waved a big flag in Beijing too....

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Sep 2015

DynamicSpirit said:
From what I've read elsewhere about the reports from Corbyn's meeting with MPs and what was said there, it seems like it has been mentioned that his actual plans for the day are not yet definite (hardly surprising given he's only just become Labour leader, and he's had much more urgent stuff to deal with.

There are times when "more urgent stuff" takes second place to a National Tribute.

DynamicSpirit · 15 Sep 2015

Paul Sidorczuk said:
There are times when "more urgent stuff" takes second place to a National Tribute.

The 'National Tribute' being discussed does not take place for nearly another two months. That is plenty of time for a leader of the opposition to make arrangements for what he will be doing on the day. It sounds like you are implying it's somehow not acceptable for him to have not made those arrangements on basically his first day as leader of the opposition, which seems absurd to me. Is that really what you intend to suggest?

Johnuk123 · 15 Sep 2015

DynamicSpirit said:
I think Paul that you may be missing the point here. It would seem utterly implausible for there to be any serious doubt that Jeremy Corbyn will attend remembrance commemorations. The point is rather that the Daily Mail are apparently doing their utmost to spin stories so as to cast Corbyn in the most unfavourable light they possibly can, even when there is little basis for doing so.

From what I've read elsewhere about the reports from Corbyn's meeting with MPs and what was said there, it seems like it has been mentioned that his actual plans for the day are not yet definite (hardly surprising given he's only just become Labour leader, and he's had much more urgent stuff to deal with), and it's possible (but not yet decided) that he may choose, as is his custom, to wear a white poppy. It seems that the Daily Mail, for reasons that are probably not hard to guess, has chosen to spin this so as to falsely make out that Corbyn might be intending not to remember and honour the dead.

He is getting slagged off from everybody including his own MP's.
I would say it's comparable to the vitriol and hate dumped on UKIP from every section of the media.
Being slagged off is part and parcel of the job and an ability to let it wash over you is essential.
I think it affected Milliband big-style, I don't think he had the bottle for it.

I assume you didn't vote for Corbyn.

fowler9 · 15 Sep 2015

Has Corbyn actually said he isn't sure he will turn up at the Cenotaph or just said he is not sure what his plans are? There is a world of difference between the Daily Heil saying Corbyn isn't sure if he will turn up and Corbyn saying he is not sure what is plans are. If he has said he is thinking of having a lie in then a livener in the pub that may be news.

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Sep 2015

Many left-wingers have been strenuous in their support of "freedom of the Press" over the years, so the connection between "reaping" and "sowing" may be an unfortunate side effect of this aspiration.

Hornet · 15 Sep 2015

Paul Sidorczuk said:
Many left-wingers have been strenuous in their support of "freedom of the Press" over the years, so the connection between "reaping" and "sowing" may be an unfortunate side effect of this aspiration.

You would have thought that Corbyn would had realised that when he was "doorstepped" by the Sky Reporter. It's a bit naive of him to believe that he can walk down the street, being the hot topic on the news, and not be asked questions on his female appointee's (or lack of). And to claim harassment, well it's something he is going to have to get used to, especially if he walks or takes Public Transport. He has put his head above the parapet. There are many journo's ready to fire the shots. Part and parcel of the job he has signed up to.

fowler9 · 15 Sep 2015

I have nothing against the freedom of the press. The are free to say what they like and free to get pulled up if they make things up or distort the truth.

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Sep 2015

fowler9 said:
I have nothing against the freedom of the press. The are free to say what they like and free to get pulled up if they make things up or distort the truth.

Yet there are those on this thread who for some reason have chosen to post parts of newspaper article examples that seem to upset them.

Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

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