• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Great Central Railway (North Notts)

Status
Not open for further replies.

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
Good morning,

I traveled on Saturday on the Hastings Diesels Charter Railtour to the Great Central Railway (North), it goes from Loughborough to Ruddington where there is a country park and the Notts Transport Museum, (which is interesting in itself, with old buses on display, a couple of narrow gauge rail train rides and an open top bus trip too).

Anyway, I have some queries about the GCR & GCR(N);

Does anyone know how the plans/project to link these two lines over the MML are progressing? I picked up a leaflet there that said the bridge was hoped to be put in position by the end of this year. Is that still likely to happen.

Was the original Ruddington station located approximately where the reversal junction now takes place to access the present station at the Heritage Centre.?

Do existing GCR (N) steam/diesel loco hauled services have to operate top and tail at the moment, as there is no run around loop in the Loughborough area that I could see and I was not sure if there is a run round loop at the Ruddington reversal bit although there is I think at Ruddington Station.


I presume the line used to carry on forward from there to Notts City and beyond. Are the Notts trams likely to be extended towards Ruddington, I heard they are planning to extend their network?

What was at the current heritage site originally, it does cover quite a large ares, was it a marshaling yard or similar?

When the grouping happened in 1923 that made the "Big Four" companies, and then nationalisation in the late 1940s, who took over the Great Central Railway's services from Marylebone to the Midlands and Yorkshire/Manchester. Did it become part of the GWR, LMS or LNER? then become part of the WR, MR or Eastern Regions?

It was a really good day out on Saturday, apart from some slow running on the way back approaching Clapham Junction owing to a trespasser on the line around Queenstown Road that caused delays.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
It was a very good day out.

The GCR became part of the LNER on grouping, becoming part of the Eastern Region under BR. It only really began to decline after being transferred to the Midland Region (in the early sixties ?).
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
The original Ruddington station was just north of where the train reverses to go into the present Ruddington station, with access off Clifton Road where the bridge has been rebuilt but is still big enough to allow a northward extension underneath it.

http://binged.it/1Jk9bOF

Did you find the model railway layouts on the Ruddington site? One of them is based on Ruddington in the 50s/60s and gives a good idea of how things used to be (probably virtually unchanged from construction at the turn of the century). There's also the full set of plans for the GCR London Extension on the internet somewhere - I'd do a search to give you a link but I'd then end up spending several hours browsing it!

Tracking further north, the tram uses the GCR formation all the way from just before the Nottingham ring road (A52) until the northern edge of Wilford Village, nearly at the Trent. The former embankment has been levelled to give enough width for a foot/cycle track and sound barriers. There has been talk of extending the GCR(N) to meet the tram at Wilwell Cutting but I think this is unlikely as the old railway is a nature reserve which caused a fair amount of controversy when the tram encroached on it. There are no plans to extend the tram towards Ruddington.

The GCR(N) has no run-round loop at its southern end, presumably because they want to focus their efforts on getting to Loughborough Central station where they could run round or carry on towards Leicester.

The Ruddington site was a major army depot - I think it opened during WW2 but was kept afterwards mainly for disposal of surplus equipment, finally closing in the 80s I think. There is believed to have been a station in the depot for use by workers but the station that is there now was entirely built by the preservationists.

The Ruddington depot is the main reason for survival of this part of the GCR. From closure of the through route until sometime in the 70s trains would access Ruddington from the north by reversing over the old GC-GN connection near the centre of Nottingham and back from Weekday Cross via the bridge over Midland station. The present link at Loughborough allowed the Nottingham connection to be closed, and very little now remains above ground of the GC route in Nottingham.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
Thank you for the replies here. Interesting that it went from LNER to Midland region under BR.

Yes I did see the model railways you mention which were very good.
 

Ash Bridge

Established Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
4,043
Location
Stockport
Good morning,



Anyway, I have some queries about the GCR & GCR(N);

Does anyone know how the plans/project to link these two lines over the MML are progressing? I picked up a leaflet there that said the bridge was hoped to be put in position by the end of this year. Is that still likely to happen.


Thank you.
I read something recently in one of the magazines that there is currently some uncertainty about the bridge reinstatement over the MML due to NR's postponement of wiring the route, I seem to recall its construction was tied in with the electrification work.
It was a very good day out.

The GCR became part of the LNER on grouping, becoming part of the Eastern Region under BR. It only really began to decline after being transferred to the Midland Region (in the early sixties ?).

That sounds somewhat similar to what happened to the Southern lines in the southwest when taken over by the Western Region around the same period?
 

matt

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
30 Jun 2005
Messages
7,812
Location
Rugby
Do existing GCR (N) steam/diesel loco hauled services have to operate top and tail at the moment, as there is no run around loop in the Loughborough area that I could see and I was not sure if there is a run round loop at the Ruddington reversal bit although there is I think at Ruddington Station.

They either operate top and tail or they use their modified brake coach which allows the coaches to be propelled.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
That sounds somewhat similar to what happened to the Southern lines in the southwest when taken over by the Western Region around the same period?

I think it was part of the same "tidying up" of the regions. With the same unfortunate consequences.
 

Pinza-C55

Member
Joined
23 May 2015
Messages
1,028
I walked part of the disused section at Ruddington in about 1980 and my memories are seeing a disused colour light signal and (I think) an amazing old shop near Ruddington station which hadn't been modernised since the 1960s.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
I walked part of the disused section at Ruddington in about 1980 and my memories are seeing a disused colour light signal and (I think) an amazing old shop near Ruddington station which hadn't been modernised since the 1960s.

I noticed that the stretch we travelled along had a lot of what looked like vintage colour light signals and telegraph poles in situ.
 

Steveoh

Member
Joined
19 Aug 2015
Messages
165
I walked part of the disused section at Ruddington in about 1980 and my memories are seeing a disused colour light signal and (I think) an amazing old shop near Ruddington station which hadn't been modernised since the 1960s.

You can walk most of the Gotham branch now, it's just opened as a footpath. There's the odd sleeper and chair about. It's a nice walk, you can get over the moor to ruddington if you want too. There are couple of overbridges in situ too. You get a good view of the line between Ruddington and rushcliffe halt. It's apparent just how straight the line was.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
It was a very good day out.

The GCR became part of the LNER on grouping, becoming part of the Eastern Region under BR. It only really began to decline after being transferred to the Midland Region (in the early sixties ?).

Shame, I can see that for reasons of Geography, it made logical sense to go to the Midland Region rather than the Eastern, but that meant that it was really competing with it's self on the Midland services to the same area from St. Pancras, (Which I suppose is why it originally went to LNER rather than LMS.) so I suppose the Midland Region promoted and concentrated on the ST. P services and ran down those from Marylebone.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
Shame, I can see that for reasons of Geography, it made logical sense to go to the Midland Region rather than the Eastern, but that meant that it was really competing with it's self on the Midland services to the same area from St. Pancras, (Which I suppose is why it originally went to LNER rather than LMS.) so I suppose the Midland Region promoted and concentrated on the ST. P services and ran down those from Marylebone.

Probably more a case of Euston being favoured over either! The St Pancras line wasn't exactly well known for development or investment by BR and probably not much by the LMS either.
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
1,301
Location
East Midlands
I read something recently in one of the magazines that there is currently some uncertainty about the bridge reinstatement over the MML due to NR's postponement of wiring the route, I seem to recall its construction was tied in with the electrification work.

The exact details of the situation are currently described at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/unify/
So it may all go ahead pretty much as planned before the wiring 'pause' was announced or the sequence may get re-jigged as described.
I'm reasonably optimistic that the reunification will happen within ten years regardless though!
 
Last edited:

Ash Bridge

Established Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
4,043
Location
Stockport
The exact details of the situation are currently described at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/unify/
So it may all go ahead pretty much as planned before the wiring 'pause' was announced or the sequence may get re-jigged as described.
I'm reasonably optimistic that the reunification will happen within ten years regardless though!

Thanks for providing that, so all being well future prospects are still looking quite positive.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
Probably more a case of Euston being favoured over either! The St Pancras line wasn't exactly well known for development or investment by BR and probably not much by the LMS either.

Yes you are probably correct about that, now I think about it, the St. Pancras services and station itself were rather run down too. I suppose they only really seemed to improve after Midland Mainline took over, improving some routes and trains, then of course the great rebuild for Eurostar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The exact details of the situation are currently described at the bottom of this page:
http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/unify/
So it may all go ahead pretty much as planned before the wiring 'pause' was announced or the sequence may get re-jigged as described.
I'm reasonably optimistic that the reunification will happen within ten years regardless though!


Thanks for the link. Although I hope the reunification is rather earlier that ten years.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
When I used StP in the mid 90's it seemed fairly empty to me rather than down at heel, a feeling heightened by the lack of local and suburban trains and the concentration of the main platforms in the west side of the shed.
 

fsmr

Member
Joined
11 Feb 2009
Messages
659
I caught the tour climbing Manton bank at Eggleton LC near Oakham Rutland
Lovely day

[YOUTUBE]tvyI81qMRNo[/YOUTUBE]
 

Cosford11

New Member
Joined
5 Jul 2015
Messages
3
Location
East Grinstead
This was one of the best railtours I have been on for quite a while. Thanks to everyone at the GCR(N) for being there and for making the visit so enjoyable. Staff were brilliant and very helpful. The miniature railways were great fun and the food there was brilliant. I hope that the two GCR's can be put together with the bridge at Loughborough.

Praise too for the people on the Hastings unit who worked their socks off. Getting from being 15 late at Clapham Junction to arriving at Tunbridge Wells 20 minutes early took some doing! Thanks
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
This was one of the best railtours I have been on for quite a while. Thanks to everyone at the GCR(N) for being there and for making the visit so enjoyable. Staff were brilliant and very helpful. The miniature railways were great fun and the food there was brilliant. I hope that the two GCR's can be put together with the bridge at Loughborough.

Praise too for the people on the Hastings unit who worked their socks off. Getting from being 15 late at Clapham Junction to arriving at Tunbridge Wells 20 minutes early took some doing! Thanks


Yes, those Hastings Railtours are always very good as are their staff.

Shame about the delay arriving at Clapham Junction which just missed my connection home, but I am glad it made the time up later in the journey.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
HDL always manage an impressively quick run along the Oakham route. Found this on the Midland Forester (I think that's what it was called) tour a few years back.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
HDL always manage an impressively quick run along the Oakham route. Found this on the Midland Forester (I think that's what it was called) tour a few years back.

I went on that Midland Forester HDL Railtour, it was on 04 July 2009 and was the first HDL excursion that I went on, I have now done quite a number of their tours. That tour allowed a visit to the other part of the GCR or the City of Nottingham.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,817
Location
Yorks
I went on that Midland Forester HDL Railtour, it was on 04 July 2009 and was the first HDL excursion that I went on, I have now done quite a number of their tours. That tour allowed a visit to the other part of the GCR or the City of Nottingham.

Yes, it was very enjoyable racing a kettle on the East Coast Mainline. We gave the steam fans a run for their money!
 

P156KWJ

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2007
Messages
4,133
Location
Nottinghamshire
As for your query about the tram, there is no current plan to extend to Ruddington. Lines two and three to Chilwell and Clifton respectively concluded a month ago or so and are now open to the public. Clifton isn't far from there and some of the line is built on cleared GCR trackbed in Wilford.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,003
Yes you are probably correct about that, now I think about it, the St. Pancras services and station itself were rather run down too. I suppose they only really seemed to improve after Midland Mainline took over, improving some routes and trains, then of course the great rebuild for Eurostar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Thanks for the link. Although I hope the reunification is rather earlier that ten years.


Hopefully the news that the MML Electrification project is back on, will help the two parts of the GCR bridging project. As mentioned before, I think GCR will make use of any MML Closures for re-connection / erecting the new bridge work.
 

IKBrunel

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2013
Messages
236
Location
Beeston
As it happens..

I spotted a construction compound started in the triangle of land between the GCR, MML and A60 today (behind the brush works). It appears work has commenced on the GCR overbridge.

www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/ceremony-mark-start-work-gcr-10864250

I suspect even once this bridge is in place it will be some time before the two lines are completely connected, presumably the Loughborough canal bridge still needs work, embankment extending and loco shed removing.
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,229
Location
Greater Manchester
Shame, I can see that for reasons of Geography, it made logical sense to go to the Midland Region rather than the Eastern, but that meant that it was really competing with it's self on the Midland services to the same area from St. Pancras, (Which I suppose is why it originally went to LNER rather than LMS.) so I suppose the Midland Region promoted and concentrated on the ST. P services and ran down those from Marylebone.

Probably more a case of Euston being favoured over either! The St Pancras line wasn't exactly well known for development or investment by BR and probably not much by the LMS either.
I can recall my first childhood visit from Nottingham to London in the 1950s was on the Master Cutler express from Nottingham Victoria to Marylebone, which was then still quicker than the Midland Region trains. Once the Midland Region took over the GC line in 1958, it initially replaced the expresses by semi-fasts, slower than the expresses on the ex-Midland route from Nottingham Midland to St Pancras via Melton Mowbray and Oakham. Then in the late '60s, after the GC line had closed to through traffic, the Midland line from Nottingham to Melton, over the Lady Bay Bridge, was closed too and the London trains were diverted to the longer, current, route via Loughborough, Leicester and Market Harborough.

The last passenger service south from Nottingham Victoria was an all stations DMU shuttle to Rugby.
 

AndyW33

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2013
Messages
534
As it happens..

I spotted a construction compound started in the triangle of land between the GCR, MML and A60 today (behind the brush works). It appears work has commenced on the GCR overbridge.

www.loughboroughecho.net/news/local-news/ceremony-mark-start-work-gcr-10864250

I suspect even once this bridge is in place it will be some time before the two lines are completely connected, presumably the Loughborough canal bridge still needs work, embankment extending and loco shed removing.

The "first sod" ceremony is tomorrow.

Currently there's no plan to move the loco shed, as there's enough room to run a single track past the side of it if the present selection of grounded vans alongside the shed are relocated. As the bridge itself is to be single track, and this puts the start of the single track section roughly opposite the signal box, there are operational advantages.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,686
The Ruddington depot is the main reason for survival of this part of the GCR. From closure of the through route until sometime in the 70s trains would access Ruddington from the north by reversing over the old GC-GN connection near the centre of Nottingham and back from Weekday Cross via the bridge over Midland station. The present link at Loughborough allowed the Nottingham connection to be closed, and very little now remains above ground of the GC route in Nottingham.

I think Edwin_M has made a very good summary of events. IIRC, the Loughboro' link was put in c 1975 or 76. I believe there is at least one eminent poster in this group who believes it should have been done 15 years earlier, as a main line turnout, with Midland line trains diverted onto the shorter GC route into Nottingham and on to Sheffield.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
When I used StP in the mid 90's it seemed fairly empty to me rather than down at heel, a feeling heightened by the lack of local and suburban trains and the concentration of the main platforms in the west side of the shed.

IIRC, in the early to mid-90s there were only two trains per hour outside the peak, when there were three - this after Thameslink came into being.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes you are probably correct about that, now I think about it, the St. Pancras services and station itself were rather run down too. I suppose they only really seemed to improve after Midland Mainline took over, improving some routes and trains, then of course the great rebuild for Eurostar.

While the GC was clearly run down under LMR management, I don't think this was some kind of pre-Grouping revenge on the LNER.

I certainly don't believe LMR management were suddenly presented with the GC and they then sat around a table and decided to run it down in favour of the Midland route.

What I suspect is that the BRB transferred the GC to the LMR to do the hatchet job, - it would be much easier to use the LMR management than suddenly inform the ER, who no doubt had been doing their best to keep up morale on the line, to say: sorry folks, waste of effort, you are going to be closed. (although that was how it would be felt on the ground, of course).

However, in the case of the GC (compared to the LSWR route to Exeter) it all took place much more slowly - fast mineral traffic was run over the route, and a whole lot of diverted passenger trains up to 1966 and WCML electrification - so it was somehow more camouflaged.

And yes, the Midland was pretty much a Cinderella route too - sure, it got the relatively powerful Cl 45s (while the WCML struggled on with Cl 40s) but not much else.

It must be remembered that management were seriously toying with the idea of diverting Midland trains via Nuneaton or Market Harborough/Northampton in the 60s, and singling the line southwards to Bedford for a mere semi-fast 1TPH service.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top