The Bag Tax

GrimsbyPacer · 2 Oct 2015

Hi everyone.
The Single Use Carrier Bag Order 2015 comes into effect on October 5th.

The 5p charge is only required from companies employing 250 or more.
Bags containing the following are exempt for the charge:
Wholly or partially unwrapped food.
Loose seeds.
Blades not packaged.
Live Fish.
Raw Meat, Fish and Poultry.
Flowers, and Veg or other stuff with soil.

Although these bags with the listed items are supposed to be free, aswell as those from smaller shops, I am fearing that all bags wil cost 5p regardless, just to fleece people for money.
Companies will be scared aswell, a failure to charge 5p can lead to a £5,000 fine from the council.

I often get food delivered from Iceland, but they are to charge for delivery bags aswell, which is silly as they are often unuseable and online shoppers (at other shops) don't have to pay which is unfair.

I have some questions still.
Will carrier bags be returnable like other items purchased now we're paying for them?
And other than my "buying cheap bin bags" idea, is there another way of avoiding these charges?
Thanks.

RailUK Forums

Tetchytyke · 2 Oct 2015

Online shoppers still have to pay the fee, they're not exempt. Most online food retailers are offering two choices: either a flat fee (Ocado, etc, seem to have set this at 40p) or opting to have your shopping loose in crates rather than bags. I can see delivery drivers loving that.

The best way of avoiding the charge is to either buy from very small local shops, or to ensure you keep a stash of bags on you. I'll have to remember to keep a few cotton bags in my satchel. I usually have some in the office, take them home and then forget to bring them in again.

That said, I shop at Aldi and they've been charging for bags for years.

pemma · 2 Oct 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
Although these bags with the listed items are supposed to be free

Allowed to be issued for free opposed to will be issued for free. I doubt Aldi or Lidl will start giving out free bags to customers purchasing certain products, when they've charged all customers for bags up until now.

And other than my "buying cheap bin bags" idea, is there another way of avoiding these charges?

Strangely supermarkets don't have to charge for Bags for Life, so it might be certain stores on certain days still give out free ones. I know Waitrose have given out free Bags for Life when they've opened new stores and both Tescos and Sainsburys have given them out for free on occasions in the past.

Tetchytyke · 2 Oct 2015

jcollins said:
Allowed to be issued for free opposed to will be issued for free. I doubt Aldi or Lidl will start giving out free bags to customers purchasing certain products, when they've charged all customers for bags up until now.

Aldi don't tend to sell loose fruit, vegetables, fish or meat. What the rules mean is that the little bags you get in the veg aisle or from the deli counter will continue to be free, but the carrier bags that you put the little bags in will be charged for.

Bletchleyite · 2 Oct 2015

Arctic Troll said:
Online shoppers still have to pay the fee, they're not exempt. Most online food retailers are offering two choices: either a flat fee (Ocado, etc, seem to have set this at 40p) or opting to have your shopping loose in crates rather than bags. I can see delivery drivers loving that.

Tesco already offer "no bags" deliveries and I always choose that. I just dump the contents of them on the kitchen floor and sort once the driver has gone. Though some drivers have complimented me on this and said many people take ages and load their cupboards up.

To me the best solution would be to allow the crates to be retained against a deposit for next time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

jcollins said:
Strangely supermarkets don't have to charge for Bags for Life, so it might be certain stores on certain days still give out free ones. I know Waitrose have given out free Bags for Life when they've opened new stores and both Tescos and Sainsburys have given them out for free on occasions in the past.

I generally purchased those anyway, as the free ones just fall to bits. They get re-used for things other than shopping, but rarely taken back to the supermarket.

pemma · 2 Oct 2015

Neil Williams said:
I generally purchased those anyway, as the free ones just fall to bits. They get re-used for things other than shopping, but rarely taken back to the supermarket.

My old ones get used as bin liners, to take things I don't want to charity shops/clothing banks/H&M etc, or get used when I'm returning from holiday to prevent dirty clothes mixing with clean clothes in my luggage and other similar uses.

Liam · 2 Oct 2015

At least in England you will only be charged for plastic bags. Scotland and Wales charge for all 'single use bags' whether it's plastic, paper or anything else.

pemma · 2 Oct 2015

Liam said:
At least in England you will only be charged for plastic bags. Scotland and Wales charge for all 'single use bags' whether it's plastic, paper or anything else.

Other than local markets (which would be exempt anyway) and Primark, who still uses paper bags?

EM2 · 2 Oct 2015

The simple solution is to keep a few 'bags for life' in your car, or a couple of foldup shopping bags in your bag (my wife always carries a couple, and I keep one in my 'man bag').
We've not used a free bag from a supermarket for years.

Having lived in the Republic of Ireland when something similar was introduced, you will adapt very quickly!

185143 · 2 Oct 2015

Liam:2317571 said:
At least in England you will only be charged for plastic bags. Scotland and Wales charge for all 'single use bags' whether it's plastic, paper or anything else.

Does that include fast food outlets? What is the scenario, say onboard a Virgin Train when someone purchases a hot drink and they have to give you a bag?

Tetchytyke · 2 Oct 2015

185143 said:
Does that include fast food outlets? What is the scenario, say onboard a Virgin Train when someone purchases a hot drink and they have to give you a bag?

You'll notice that fast food shops tend to give you paper bags, which are not chargeable.

Many fast food outlets will have fewer than 250 employees anyway; bear in mind most McDonald's, KFC, etc, are franchises.

Liam · 2 Oct 2015

jcollins said:
Other than local markets (which would be exempt anyway) and Primark, who still uses paper bags?

Might paper bags become more popular in England as they are exempt from the charge? I'm interested to see the outcome.

Oswyntail · 2 Oct 2015

My local Tesco's have just given me a free "Bag for life". They are, however, stopping giving Clubcard points for using your own bags from Monday.

Tim R-T-C · 2 Oct 2015

I would hardly call 5p oer bag "fleecing". You can easily bring your own.

Most major chains are donating these 5p charges to charity anyhow.

headshot119 · 2 Oct 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
Hi everyone.
The Single Use Carrier Bag Order 2015 comes into effect on October 5th.

The 5p charge is only required from companies employing 250 or more.
Bags containing the following are exempt for the charge:
Wholly or partially unwrapped food.
Loose seeds.
Blades not packaged.
Live Fish.
Raw Meat, Fish and Poultry.
Flowers, and Veg or other stuff with soil.

Although these bags with the listed items are supposed to be free, aswell as those from smaller shops, I am fearing that all bags wil cost 5p regardless, just to fleece people for money.
Companies will be scared aswell, a failure to charge 5p can lead to a £5,000 fine from the council.

I often get food delivered from Iceland, but they are to charge for delivery bags aswell, which is silly as they are often unuseable and online shoppers don't have to pay which is unfair.

I have some questions still.
Will carrier bags be returnable like other items purchased now we're paying for them?
And other than my "buying cheap bin bags" idea, is there another way of avoiding these charges?
Thanks.

I feel like I've gone back in time to October 2011, when Wales went into a total melt down over having to charge for carrier bags.

I can answer pretty much all the concerns in this thread.

The exemption list for charging in Wales is well stuck to by retailers, Mcdonalds won't charge you for a bag if it just contains "Wholly or partially unwrapped food".

In Wales small retailers work slightly differently to the English legislation, the money is usually put straight into a charity collection tin. (I quite like that as it helps out local charitys).

It's very clear cut in England if you employ less than 250 people you don't have to charge. If a business makes the decision to charge, then I fully support them. 5p per bag is not a huge amount of money. Very dramatic to say it's to fleece people for money, the whole point is to reduce the amount of single use bags produced and dumped in landfills.

Online delivery, I imagine all the big names will simply do what they do in Wales, you'll have the option to pay for bags, or the option to not pay for bags. I personally opt for the latter everytime. "Wholly or partially unwrapped food" still comes in bags. One thing is for sure YOU WILL have to pay for bags from them they can't give you them for free.

Carrier bags returnable I've heard it all now :lol:

No I very much doubt they are.

You're missing the whole point of this if your plan is to go out and buy cheap bin bags. How about you just buy some nice strong reuseable bags instead.

GrimsbyPacer · 2 Oct 2015

185143 said:
Does that include fast food outlets? What is the scenario, say onboard a Virgin Train when someone purchases a hot drink and they have to give you a bag?

I forgot to mention. 'Transit Places' are also exempt.
So trains are the same.

Would there be any hygiene problems from the old bags being used over and over again?

generalvegitable · 2 Oct 2015

Neil Williams said:
...
To me the best solution would be to allow the crates to be retained against a deposit for next time.
....

In my area if you ask the drivers nicely they'll do that anyway

DarloRich · 2 Oct 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
Would there be any hygiene problems from the old bags being used over and over again?

It is a plastic carrier bag for goodness sake! :roll: If you have wrapped raw fish or meat without other covering in the carrier bag then bin it, otherwise no. I use mine over and over again and have done for ages.

Keep a couple of decent bags in your car or a few storage boxes and it quickly becomes even less than a first world problem!

Starmill · 2 Oct 2015

I hardly ever go anywhere without a rucksack, so I am usually covered for a bag to put small items in.

If I'm going food shopping specifically, I'll take an empty rucksack and several bags, but I can only buy as much as I can carry at once.

The only problem will arise if I want to buy something fairly big and bulky and I don't have enough room in my rucksack - I often end up carting a lot of things around in it that I don't desperately need so I will just have to be a bit more organised and try to keep a carrier bag in there for emergencies.

The way some people use plastic bags is crazy, this isn't before time. Quite why it has taken so long compared to Wales I've no idea.

Oswyntail said:
My local Tesco's have just given me a free "Bag for life". They are, however, stopping giving Clubcard points for using your own bags from Monday.

I think we probably had to accept that this was coming! You stopped being able to collect Nectar points for doing it a while back.

pemma · 2 Oct 2015

starmill said:
The only problem will arise if I want to buy something fairly big and bulky and I don't have enough room in my rucksack - I often end up carting a lot of things around in it that I don't desperately need so I will just have to be a bit more organised and try to keep a carrier bag in there for emergencies.

I can forsee people doing what I've seen in Bavaria, where they quite often don't take or buy bags for a small number of items but just carry a number of loose items in their arms.

I think we probably had to accept that this was coming! You stopped being able to collect Nectar points for doing it a while back.

Tesco's green clubcard points pre-dated Sainsburys' Nectar scheme. Although in the past Sainsburys did give you pennies back in cash before it was withdrawn and it was probably the introduction of Tesco's green clubcard points that prompted Sainsburys to do something again.

Sainsburys have reduced the number of Nectar points they give out overall, you now only get 1 point (0.5p) per £1 spent.

AM9 · 2 Oct 2015

All the talk is about supermarkets whom I'm sure are the major source of plastic carrier bags that pollute the environment.
What happens when you buy several items in a department store, e.g. some clothes, (unwrapped), some shoes, and some household hardware item (also unwrapped). Are you expected to carry separate bags with you to keep the unwrapped items apart? Or will the stores find some way of protecting different goods from transit damage in whatever bags the customer brings with them. If it gets too difficult, then the stores' efforts to encourage impulse buys will be hampered, - no bad thing in my mind but they wouldn't see it that way.
I can't see any exclusion or even a direct mention of those types of goods in the Government documents directed either at the consumer or the retailer.

Bletchleyite · 2 Oct 2015

AM9 said:
Are you expected to carry separate bags with you to keep the unwrapped items apart? Or will the stores find some way of protecting different goods from transit damage in whatever bags the customer brings with them.

Or you just pay 15p for a bag for each. Hardly going to break the bank, is it?

The intention of the charge is not to wipe out plastic bag use - if it were, they would simply be banned outright. It's to reduce it down to levels that are strictly necessary.

Xenophon PCDGS · 2 Oct 2015

I note that amongst that stated exemptions are "Live Fish".

Have any of the forum members ever brought live fish home from the supermarket in a carrier bag....and if so, what were the fish in question?

GrimsbyPacer · 2 Oct 2015

This will hit the poorest more than the richest.
Some people must be on the breadline already may be pushed off.
My Mum got carrier bags herself, 40 for a pound.
Best we could get. They are in Poundworld and called 'Handy Bags' and are similar to shop bags.

Starmill · 2 Oct 2015

I thought it meant fish in bags at the fairground type of fish.

Is that still allowed?

Searle · 2 Oct 2015

jcollins:2317573 said:
Liam said:

At least in England you will only be charged for plastic bags. Scotland and Wales charge for all 'single use bags' whether it's plastic, paper or anything else.

Click to expand...

Other than local markets (which would be exempt anyway) and Primark, who still uses paper bags?

I've been charged 5p for a paper bag in McDonald's in Edinburgh before.

Fortunately, Tesco have been offering free bags for life this week, so I've stocked up on a load. Now I just have to remember to take them shopping when I go 8(

Starmill · 2 Oct 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
This will hit the poorest more than the richest.
Some people must be on the breadline already may be pushed off.
My Mum got carrier bags herself, 40 for a pound.
Best we could get. They are in Poundworld and called 'Handy Bags' and are similar to shop bags.

Nobody expected this to be a progressive policy - that isn't the point of it. It is of a tiny magnitude and really not worth worrying about in terms of its effect on equality.

What it is supposed to do is change people's habits. Nothing more.

AM9 · 2 Oct 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
This will hit the poorest more than the richest.
Some people must be on the breadline already may be pushed off.
My Mum got carrier bags herself, 40 for a pound.
Best we could get. They are in Poundworld and called 'Handy Bags' and are similar to shop bags.

It appears that the average number of bags used per year per person in the UK is about 140. Now assuming your mum is typical of those who regularly take non-reusables then that means nearly three bags a week are thrown away, presumably used for food waste. How can there be more waste volume after the cans, bottles and card/paper wrapping has been recycled correctly?

Tim R-T-C · 2 Oct 2015

Interesting to see how bag use will change across the regions. The drop in Scotland is the least of all - it was 12.8% in Scotland, 42.6% in Northern Ireland and 71% in Wales. Obviously the Scottish not as tight as people might expect!

507021 · 2 Oct 2015

I do the majority of my shopping at Iceland and I bought a few of the reusable pouch bags at the start of the year which are really useful. I always take a big rucksack as well to carry any heavy items like drinks bottles.

The Bag Tax

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