University is it worth it?

It depends on what you think you'll get out of it. Potentially you'll get a lot out of it. I didn't really have a clue of what I wanted to do at 16/17 and didn't live in an area with many "good" jobs anyway or obvious routes to a career that I would have thought I'd be interested in.

Your grades and interests are key though. I never wanted to be a Doctor or Engineer, but looking back I was a pretty high achiever. I just knew that if I wanted to go to University, I wanted to go to a top 20 one (although I'd stress this IMHO can be more about prestige rather than actual quality at undergraduate level!). I remember panicking about grades non-stop at school, it's not for everyone.

I study a joint-honours of Business Management and Modern Languages, which required AAB at A-Level including GCSE Maths/English at Grade A and a Language at A-Level if I remember right. I rather liked Economics and Languages at school and felt that I'd be interested in studying the areas further, which turned out to be a great combination.

I mean it's a softer course some would say and compared to many, yes, but I've learned some great skills ranging from how to deconstruct and interpret financial accounts right through to being able to competently translate a governmental document from one language to another. I faced my fear of maths in statistical analysis courses and having to give presentations in different languages improved my confidence enormously. So I feel I have learned some useful personal and technical skills along the way too

Whoever said get some work experience and/or part-time job is right though..

I got my job because of uni - not because of the degree (neither here nor there), but because of the extra-curricular activities (quiet at the back!)

Been in that job (minus internal promotions) for the last 12 years 14 days.

I'm currently studying "3D modelling" at university, but it's one unit of seven on a one year MSc in Mechanical Engineering.

As I've said before, if you only want to do CAD, the place to go isn't likely to be university, but if you want to use said CAD to do the sharp end of the job, things like conducting Finite Element Analysis of a model then a degree in mechanical engineering is rather helpful. Incidentally, FEA is part of what I am studying in this MSc.

But CAD isn't my whole job, this is why we employ draughtsmen and contractors, it's part of the design process.

In terms of getting the job that I have now, I'm pretty sure I could be on this rate of pay with an advanced apprenticeship, but I couldn't be doing this job, not to say that you can do this job without a degree, two of our very senior engineers do not have any, but started in the drawing office back in the 1960s, one could not follow that career path into this role as we no longer have a drawing office, and once at an equivalent skill level in maintenance, it would be a significant pay drop.

So today, now, without my degree(s) I wouldn't have gotten this job, nor would I expect to get it without my other previous experience.

Hornet said:

I'd agree with this. In many years of dealing with and mentoring graduates, I have found that they come in with the 'I know it all' attitude, only to find out very quickly, that they are quite out of their depth.

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You might have a point with younger people who are straight out of University having done nothing else. But that's the same with any young people who don't have the experience.

IME a degree gives you a foot up the ladder- you won't be starting at the very bottom as a graduate, which means that with a normal career trajectory you'll rise higher than without a degree- but beyond that you're on your own. As I said, University- like everything in life- is what you make of it.

One practical point that hasn't been mentioned is that quite a few graduates have highlighted their difficulty in getting jobs because potential employers assume they are *too* qualified and will not stay for long. Other graduates in certain fields have also said that, despite their qualifications, there are too many of them chasing too few relevant jobs - and they end up serving in Costa Coffee.

Best 4 years of my life.


Current use of what I learned academically? About 1%

Current use of what I learned about life ? Every day.

(But don't expect to get a job without that 1%)

Robertj21a said:

One practical point that hasn't been mentioned is that quite a few graduates have highlighted their difficulty in getting jobs because potential employers assume they are *too* qualified and will not stay for long. Other graduates in certain fields have also said that, despite their qualifications, there are too many of them chasing too few relevant jobs - and they end up serving in Costa Coffee.

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Got 2 degrees from a top 10 university. Manager for Costa Coffee now (on a train station ). I love it, I'm basically my own boss, they look after me. Yes, it's not what I thought I'd end up doing, but now I couldn't imagine sitting in an office Mon/Fri. Some of my mates have ended up getting 'more relevant' jobs to their degree, but they earn less and hate going to work. I do use some of the skills from my degrees now, but yes, maybe I didn't need to go to university. However, the way it was sold to my age-group in the pre-recession days was 'go to university and you will get a good job.' I started university in 2008, just as the graduate employment market was becoming saturated and the markets were imploding- sometimes you just have to make the best out of a bad situation.

For me, Uni was certainly worth it - but it won't be the same for everyone. I knew exactly what job I wanted to do before I'd even started the course and it's a very small group of people in the industry that I entered (less than 50 people each year from the UK graduate with a degree in the subject I did). Without the degree, there's no way I'd have got into it. Other industries will be different.

To echo what others have said it's not the academic stuff that the employers were really looking for however - the experience that I got from doing a placement year was seen as very important as were the life skills I gained. Personally, some of my best friends came from Uni and I got the chance to do things that I may never get to do again.

Did I go to university? Yes.

Did I get a "proper" degree in a "proper" subject? Yes

Have I ever actually used that degree in any way since the day I got it? No.

Was university worth it? Absolutely.

I've got a similar perspective to Iskra, having gone in 2009 under the same promises. I have never needed to analyse microscopic plates of Mid Wales sandstones since I finished my Rocks and Minerals module. But I've got a well paid job while I still know people off the same course with better results than me struggling because they feel obliged to use that degree. Despite that I know that from my time at university I was equipped with tools that helped me get to where I am today, in interviews and in work.

One last point from a cynical twenty-something. Sadly for my generation university is almost a necessary evil. Now that everyone (aiming properly in the job market at least) has GCSEs and the vast majority hold A levels (or equivalents) despite the growing costs a degree has almost become an almost obligatory feather in the cap one needs to have. In some sectors "graduate" employers are only looking at masters graduates as degrees have slowly started to devalue.

Iskra said:

... I love it, I'm basically my own boss, they look after me. Yes, it's not what I thought I'd end up doing, but now I couldn't imagine sitting in an office Mon/Fri. .....

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Enjoying your job is the most important thing, in my opinion.

Some people seem to prioritise pay over enjoyment, which is their choice, but I don't think it's wise to spend a significant amount of your time not enjoying yourself.

Another thing I would recommend people do is visit workplaces if possible to see what they are like, even if they are not directly related to the work you want to do. Try to get work placements, work experience, anything really. The more you learn about the world of work the better.

Education is important for many jobs (though not all), but Uni is optional while experience of the real world isn't.

What prepared me most for my first proper job was not Uni, but was actually my work placement. However this work placement was gained while at Uni. It also wasn't what I originally applied for; sometimes unexpected opportunities crop up.
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WestCoast said:

... I didn't really have a clue of what I wanted to do at 16/17..

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Likewise.

And I don't think I would have believed anyone who said I might be doing what I am doing now.

I think my work placement was more crucial in getting me the job, while going to Uni wasn't, but I believe my experience at Uni helps me be better at my job, if that makes sense. So, for me, it's about both work experience and education. Not just one or the other.

Without my degree I wouldn't have my job, it was a requirement to have a 2:1. Discipline didn't matter - I did politics and philosophy, one of my friends did business management, I've met people with maths, physics... don't look at your degree as vocation, its a massive fallacy and especially with graduate schemes (unless you do go for something specific in engineering, law, etc) you probably won't be directly applying your degree *unless you want to*.

A practical point that I haven't seen anyone mention so far is that, if you can't/dont want a term time job, and aren't on a course where you can do a work placement or year abroad or whatever to fill out your time, getting involved with something at the student's union (especially if you can get onto the committees of a student group and develop some people managing/time managing/event planning/etc skills which will really boost your CV) could be a good idea to help you stand out. I joined a political society in my first year, was running it by the time I left university, and it really did help me develop confidence and my own abilities to spin several plates, bring a lot of things together (like a room booking to hold an event, an external speaker, promotion of it....), as well as your own public speaking skills, managing relations with other groups and planning joint events with other committees, working around problems that arise (which they will, certainly) and then have something really cool to show for it. The neat thing about this is, there'll definitely be a group you can throw yourself into - my union had nearly 250, ranging everywhere from an LGBT support group to a Real Ale appreciation society to a Harry Potter group to an informal big band jam session for jazz musicians. You can get involved to meet people and then really put your own stamp on it. Gives you something to talk about at interviews and will help managers remember you, because you'll be the person who did x, rather than just another face with an undergraduate degree. Bearing in mind that they have upwards of 50 people per assessment centre, and run at least a dozen of those, you should see the value in helping yourself stand out. Plus you'll make friends with similar interests. Which is always good.

Waste of time unless you particularly want to be a doctor, nurse, or similarly skilled job. You can 70k a year and never go to university

FusionRail:2323473 said:

Waste of time unless you particularly want to be a doctor, nurse, or similarly skilled job. You can 70k a year and never go to university

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And it will be a damn slight harder and take you a lot longer. Yeah it's worth it if you're doing a decent subject.

Getting a good degree in a challenging subject does show that you have an aptitude for learning and can cope with abstract, complex, problems.

It's difficult to show that you have the aptitude required for a job if you have never done it before, and a good degree can certainly help with that (as can relevant experience etc.)
Some employers will be looking for you to use the skills you have learnt during the degree, but in many cases they won't worry about the exact subject and will expect you to learn new skills anyway.

A 'job in IT' can mean anything from fixing coffee-soaked laptops to designing data collection for the Large Hadron Collider.
Similarly, a 'Computer Science' degree may involve learning practical skills, such as creating UML diagrams and installing databases. At the more theoretical end, it could include formal verification and relational algebra.

Some universities may offer a taste of what the course involves, I know that Liverpool do a 2-day introduction (http://intranet.csc.liv.ac.uk/summer/ )

Getting a good degree will open some doors that would be difficult to get into otherwise. Whether it's worth three years and £40k+ depends on individual circumstances, and a crystal ball would help...

FusionRail said:

Waste of time unless you particularly want to be a doctor, nurse, or similarly skilled job. You can 70k a year and never go to university

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And three of the people I know who are on 70 - 120k are now studying distance learning and hate their jobs...

Nym said:

And three of the people I know who are on 70 - 120k are now studying distance learning and hate their jobs...

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.

**** the money, it is way more important to do something you enjoy. The best advice my dad ever gave me was when I was first choosing what subjects to take for year 9. I had to choose two of German, Latin, Art and Drama. German and Latin are probably the sensible choices there, the "serious" choices. But he told me to just do what I enjoyed, because whatever I chose I'd be doing for 40 years. The one time I disregarded that advice was when I started uni doing Maths & Engineering, as I thought the engineering part would be more real world relevant. I switched to just doing maths at the end of the first year, because the engineering stuff just wasn't as interesting to me. And now I have a PhD in maths, the four most fun years of my life, and it wouldn't have happened if I'd stuck with engineering.

sduob said:

A practical point that I haven't seen anyone mention so far is that, if you can't/dont want a term time job, and aren't on a course where you can do a work placement or year abroad or whatever to fill out your time, getting involved with something at the student's union (especially if you can get onto the committees of a student group and develop some people managing/time managing/event planning/etc skills which will really boost your CV) could be a good idea to help you stand out. I joined a political society in my first year, was running it by the time I left university, and it really did help me develop confidence and my own abilities to spin several plates, bring a lot of things together (like a room booking to hold an event, an external speaker, promotion of it....), as well as your own public speaking skills, managing relations with other groups and planning joint events with other committees, working around problems that arise (which they will, certainly) and then have something really cool to show for it. The neat thing about this is, there'll definitely be a group you can throw yourself into - my union had nearly 250, ranging everywhere from an LGBT support group to a Real Ale appreciation society to a Harry Potter group to an informal big band jam session for jazz musicians. You can get involved to meet people and then really put your own stamp on it. Gives you something to talk about at interviews and will help managers remember you, because you'll be the person who did x, rather than just another face with an undergraduate degree. Bearing in mind that they have upwards of 50 people per assessment centre, and run at least a dozen of those, you should see the value in helping yourself stand out. Plus you'll make friends with similar interests. Which is always good.

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Very much agree with this. Students unions are fun places to be. No matter what you want to do (me, I ended up on union council, elections committee and the bye-laws review group) there is a club for you, and they will want committee members for next year.

That said, I would encourage people to actually get into the union politics side of life - you don't need to run for sabbatical office, but get involved. That way you can make a real difference to the way your university is run, and especially to the people who will come after you. One thing I got frustrated with at election time at uni was final year students who didn't vote because there was nothing in it for them, but it's not about them, they're voting by proxy for the freshers who will arrive next year who don't get a say in the matter.

Hmm I never went to university and I think it was a great decision. Most people I know who went to university did nothing with their qualification, or flitted from course to course.

TheNewNo2 said:

...when I was first choosing what subjects to take for year 9....

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You got to choose what subjects to take in Year 9? Not heard of that before! I agree with you it's important to do something you enjoy.

yorkie said:

You got to choose what subjects to take in Year 9? Not heard of that before! I agree with you it's important to do something you enjoy.

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We got to choose subjects then. (It was called 3rd Year then, 1988-1989). I think the National Curriculum kicked in the following year so there was no longer any choice at that age.

Even in the mid 90s, there were still options in year 9.

So I led out of classics, art, German and CDT to do Music, French, Geography and History alongside the choir of English, Maths, Dual Award Science & PE for my GCSEs.

University is, as others have said, about more than just the course you study. To some extent it isn't relevant what you study, but how you learn.

My maths degree helped develop analytical skills which are transferable into a number of careers whereas my knowledge of knot theory is somewhat unused these days.

Our house of four of us for the 2nd & 3rd years contained a mixture of those of us who preferred a quiet night in with the TV/computer/book for company to those who like to go out every night and somewhere in between.

radamfi said:

We got to choose subjects then. (It was called 3rd Year then, 1988-1989). I think the National Curriculum kicked in the following year so there was no longer any choice at that age.

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It depends what school you go to and what the subjects are I believe. It's not as if Latin would be on the national curriculum.

klambert said:

Please note I'm studying BTEC level 3 IT. I just need some advice on whether going on to study something like computer science in university would be worth it or whether after college, I should find a job in IT instead.

Personally I'd prefer to find a job as I'd like my own economic independence from my parents now, something the world of higher education doesn't entirely allow. But I'm worried I maybe be limiting myself if I don't go to university. I received Distinction grades for my first year of college, so I'm wondering if I'd be chucking them away by not going.

Also the tuition fees are another off putting factor, as a lot of IT jobs are around the £30k mark it would mean had I been to university and found a job after, a lot of my wage would be sucked up by the debt.

Also after speaking to a couple of people in the IT sector, they say that companies prefer those who have taught themselves certain high level IT skills such as programming or 3D modelling at home rather than those who have been to university as it shows they may have more enthusiasm and interest in the job.

I'm just wondering what the users of RUK think, should I think about university or not?

One thing though is that I'd love to study 3D modelling using such software as 3DS max in more detail, does anyone know of any uni's that offer such courses?

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I would say it is absolutely worth it. I did a BTEC National in Computer Studies over 20 years ago and then did a degree in Nottingham Trent graduating in 1996. It increased my confidence and skills. When you're young there is a pressure on getting out there and earning but as you get older you will find having the educational background as well as experience will be the differentiator. Over 20 years I've been in software development and more recently I've led IT teams over 100+ more people. On my first job out of Uni I earned twice the salary my Dad did, he was semi-skilled and had been working 30+ years by then. I took a year off last year to do an MBA - my half career educational top up. Salaries for high skilled (technical or managerial roles) in IT can be £100K and beyond, especially in London and the South East. I know you have to pay fees now and that will be on your mind at the start, but I'm certain in 5 years they'll be long forgotten and you'll have a rewarding career.

Though I would have loved to have had the chance to be a train driver! Good pay too these days!