Court Summons

beccaboosh · 30 Oct 2015

Hi guys,

I am new to this so please bear with me.

I have been summoned to court for not having a valid ticket.
I began on Monday 8th June when I was travelling between Surbiton and Waterloo. I bought a day travel card and got through the Surbiton gates fine with my ticket. Then once I was at Waterloo I realised I must have left my ticket on the train or dropped it as I couldn't find it in any of my pockets. I then proceeded to approach a group of guards and explain my situation. They all ignored me trying to get the others to talk to me instead as nobody seemed keen to talk to me. Eventually a man came forward and I told him I had left my ticket on the train. He asked me how much my ticket was and I said around £6. He asked if I paid by card so I could show my bank statements but I said I unfortunately paid by cash. He then went on to fine me. I explained to him I was not even leaving Waterloo station but merely meeting a friend coming to visit at Waterloo only to head straight back to Surbiton once my friend had met me in the station.

I received a letter a while later explaining I had to pay I think £60-£80 by fine. During the summer I was not at my term time address when the first letter was received and today I received a summons letter. Allegedly I received another final reminder but I never saw the likes of this.

I am now in a pickle, I do not understand most of the language they use in the summons letter, but I states I "fail[ed] to hand over for inspection a ticket entitling you to travel" which makes it seem as if I was caught red handed jumping over a gate, but I in all honesty, went to a guard straight away to inform them of my situation.

It also says there is a minimum of £140 for the first summons for contribution. Am I expected to pay this whether or not I am fined?

Can I get a criminal record? What should I do?

I would preferably like to settle this outside of court if possible but I am only a student and have no experience in the way legal proceedings work.

I look forward to your replies!

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 30 Oct 2015

I'm confused.

What do you mean by "he went on to fine me"? Do you mean he asked you to pay a Penalty Fare? Were you asked to pay anything and, if so, did you?

If that is what happened that is entirely correct for a mistake of this nature and you should have paid it.

If that isn't what happened, what did happen?

From the the wording you quote it sounds like they are prosecuting you under the Railway Byelwas. This would lead to a fine (you've not been fined yet) but it isn't a recordable matter. If you were treated as deliberately avoiding payment that would lead to a criminal record if convicted.

Settling out if court seems sensible, if you and SWT can agree on a settlement figure.

By now SWT will probably have incurred substantial costs which they will no doubt want reimbursing.

There is loads of information about railway legislation and dealing with disputes in our RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide

najaB · 30 Oct 2015

beccaboosh said:
He then went on to fine me.

When he 'fined' you , were the words "penalty fare" mentioned or written on any paperwork you received?

beccaboosh said:
I received a letter a while later explaining I had to pay I think £60-£80 by fine.

Again, was this a request to pay an unpaid penalty fare?

beccaboosh said:
It also says there is a minimum of £140 for the first summons for contribution. Am I expected to pay this whether or not I am fined?

If you are found guilty then any fine imposed by the court will be increased by £140.

beccaboosh said:
Can I get a criminal record? What should I do?

I would preferably like to settle this outside of court if possible but I am only a student and have no experience in the way legal proceedings work.

I look forward to your replies!

Settling out of court would be the best outcome, however SWT(?) may be less inclined to settle seen as, from their perspective, you have already had three (four?) opportunities to sort this out.

Stigy · 31 Oct 2015

beccaboosh said:
Hi guys,

I am new to this so please bear with me.

I have been summoned to court for not having a valid ticket.
I began on Monday 8th June when I was travelling between Surbiton and Waterloo. I bought a day travel card and got through the Surbiton gates fine with my ticket. Then once I was at Waterloo I realised I must have left my ticket on the train or dropped it as I couldn't find it in any of my pockets. I then proceeded to approach a group of guards and explain my situation. They all ignored me trying to get the others to talk to me instead as nobody seemed keen to talk to me. Eventually a man came forward and I told him I had left my ticket on the train. He asked me how much my ticket was and I said around £6. He asked if I paid by card so I could show my bank statements but I said I unfortunately paid by cash. He then went on to fine me. I explained to him I was not even leaving Waterloo station but merely meeting a friend coming to visit at Waterloo only to head straight back to Surbiton once my friend had met me in the station.

I received a letter a while later explaining I had to pay I think £60-£80 by fine. During the summer I was not at my term time address when the first letter was received and today I received a summons letter. Allegedly I received another final reminder but I never saw the likes of this.

I am now in a pickle, I do not understand most of the language they use in the summons letter, but I states I "fail[ed] to hand over for inspection a ticket entitling you to travel" which makes it seem as if I was caught red handed jumping over a gate, but I in all honesty, went to a guard straight away to inform them of my situation.

It also says there is a minimum of £140 for the first summons for contribution. Am I expected to pay this whether or not I am fined?

Can I get a criminal record? What should I do?

I would preferably like to settle this outside of court if possible but I am only a student and have no experience in the way legal proceedings work.

I look forward to your replies!

It sounds as though you were reported by the RPI, and the letter you received from SWT in the first instance was a final warning letter, asking you to pay their costs etc in order to avoid court action. You then ignored this letter, which was why the summons was produced and court action ensued.

As has been said though, I too am confused as it would appear initially that you were given a Penalty Fare, which would have been the most appropriate course of action, yet you then describe a letter from SWT which you wouldn't have got had you received a Penalty Fare and paid it within the 21-day limit. Then court. Can you elaborate?

Either way, it's irrelevant now as you can't turn back time. If found guilty, which is pretty imminent if charged under a Railway Byelaw such as this one (assuming it's a charge under the Byelaws that is - 18(2) in your case), you'll be looking at a fine of around £200, plus a contribution to SWT's costs (around £80), compensation (ticket cost) and a victim surcharge (equates to 10% of the fine and is added to the overall cost of the matter). For a Byelaw conviction there's no 'set in stone' criminal record, as although it's a criminal record, it's not recordable on the Police National Computer. Having said that, if ever asked if found guilty of a criminal offence for a job etc, you'd be lying if you said "no" and such offences, I'm lead to believe do show up on enhanced DBS checks (formally CRB).

It's only if the charge is under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 when it becomes recordable and the fine is higher. In your case, it looks like the former.

I suggest attending court and speaking to the Prosecutor, as you may still be able to settle the matter and have it withdrawn from court. The costs will be higher due to how far this has now gone.

Edit: Just saw the £140 bit....I'm a bit confused by this, have procedures changed over the past year or so? (Don't find myself in court much these days and as such might be a tad rusty!)

DaveNewcastle · 31 Oct 2015

My reading of the "£140 contribution" is that £140 is the amout which the Company have estimated for their costs in investigating and prosecuting this incident, and is the amount they would ask the Court to add to their claim for the cost of travel.

So what I understand, beccaboosh, is that a date has been set for the Court to hear the evidence against you for a Railway Byelaw 18 Offence, and I'll guess that at this stage, any attempt to convince the Company that their evidence is clearly flawed BEFORE the Court hearing is impossible (whether because you can't, or it too late); and as there is no defence, you would be pleading GUILTY, following which the Court will pass sentence. That will consist of a fine of £50 - £200 (depending on your means and how soon you plead Guilty), 15% a Victim Surcharge, the fare for travel, the Criminal Courts Charge of £150, and probably plus the Company's costs as requested of £140.

If you plea NOT GUILTY, then another date will be set for a Trial when the Witnesses can attend. At that Trial, you may be able to convince the Court that the Evidence is, false and will walk away without a conviction. But if you do not, then the Company's costs will have increased, and the Criminal Courts Charge would rise to £520.

I agree with yorkie, najaB and Stigy that your best option would be to attempt a settlement with the Company's Prosecutor before it reaches the hearing. It is even possible to do that on the day, in the Court a few minutes before the Prosecutor's first cases are called. Now that you have an idea of the costs that they will be claiming against you in Court, and the cost of the fare, you should have a good idea of an amount that might be an acceptable alternative.

Bookd · 31 Oct 2015

Only from memory I think the 140 charge may be a court charge. I heard a report that a number of magistrates have resigned over this - if a destitute person is found guilty they are obliged to levy the charge which they know he cannot pay, when he doesn't pay he is charged again and he eventually ends up in prison. In one case the magistrate took out his wallet and offered to pay the levy himself but was not allowed to do so by the court clerk and he was dismissed.

najaB · 31 Oct 2015

Bookd said:
Only from memory I think the 140 charge may be a court charge.

As DaveNewcastle pointed out, the criminal court charge for this type of offence is £150 if the defendant pleads guilty.

andykn · 31 Oct 2015

beccaboosh said:
I am now in a pickle, I do not understand most of the language they use in the summons letter, but I states I "fail[ed] to hand over for inspection a ticket entitling you to travel" which makes it seem as if I was caught red handed jumping over a gate, but I in all honesty, went to a guard straight away to inform them of my situation.

If you haven't got a ticket it's an offence. It doesn't matter even if you can prove you bought a ticket, even if you've got the credit card receipt, even if you have the return half of a day return, if you haven't actually got a ticket you've committed an offence.

Because you didn't jump over the gate it sounds like you were offered a penalty fare and other opportunities to avoid prosecution but haven't taken any of them.

gray1404 · 31 Oct 2015

I think we could really to with the OP coming back now to provide clearification and answer the questions posed by those trying to offer advise and who want to help

Busaholic · 3 Nov 2015

Bookd said:
Only from memory I think the 140 charge may be a court charge. I heard a report that a number of magistrates have resigned over this - if a destitute person is found guilty they are obliged to levy the charge which they know he cannot pay, when he doesn't pay he is charged again and he eventually ends up in prison. In one case the magistrate took out his wallet and offered to pay the levy himself but was not allowed to do so by the court clerk and he was dismissed.

The latter case took place in England's poorest county, Cornwall, where this iniquitous new legislation is having a particularly deleterious effect. It has not produced anything like the revenue that Chris Grayling, then Injustice Secretary, said it would as justification for its monstrous introduction. There is a very good chance that Michael Gove will either seek to repeal or significantly amend the legislation as a matter of urgency, though.

Court Summons

beccaboosh

New Member

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff

najaB

Veteran Member

Stigy

Established Member

DaveNewcastle

Established Member

Bookd

Member

najaB

Veteran Member

andykn

Member

gray1404

Established Member

Busaholic

Veteran Member