Train driver speed habits

Master29 · 14 Nov 2015

2 points. Firstly, if the Volo TV`s in coach D of FGW HST`s are anywhere near accurate the train often went over 100mph on the Reading to Taunton line which leads me to the 2nd point of GWR AT300`s west of Newbury being only limited to 100mph on Bi mode.
So, are there sections beyond Reading with a greater than 100mph (provided of course this doesn`t or will not apply to AT300`s) limit and if so, the answer to the OP could well be yes, they do.

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notadriver · 14 Nov 2015

Yes 110 mph and it had already been said AT300s will be able to do that on diesel power.

Legzr1 · 15 Nov 2015

ainsworth74 said:
How effective is sand helping to increase grip/traction? I've always wondered...

In FOC world there have been quite a few failures over the past two weeks all attributed to lack of sand - two have blocked main lines whilst assistance arrived.

Sand is not just effective, it's vital.

HarleyDavidson · 15 Nov 2015

There were two ballasts yesterday that had real issues with lack of traction that shut the job up at Petersfield. I believe hand sanding was used + assisting locomotive to get things moving again.

It does have to be asked whether someone is compos mentis to send two heavily laden ballasts out over the steep grades of the Portsmouth direct without an assisting locomotive or checking the sanders are fully operational.

Legzr1 · 15 Nov 2015

HarleyDavidson said:
It does have to be asked whether someone is compos mentis to send two heavily laden ballasts out over the steep grades of the Portsmouth direct without an assisting locomotive or checking the sanders are fully operational.

Can't comment on the incident you've mentioned but questions have been asked about some of the incidents further north, believe me!

Bills running into tens of £thousands have a way of focussing minds...

TDK · 15 Nov 2015

Phil. said:
A little while ago I listened to a too loud conversation between two Southern managers on a train from East Croydon to Redhill. Worryingly, the younger of the two turned out to be a Driver Manager who's previous job had been in a furniture shop. He wasn't qualified to drive trains.
How can these people be in charge of, lead and advise train drivers?
What would they say to Bill Hoole coming down Stoke bank in 1959 at 112 mph.

You cannot be a driver manager and do the role if you are not qualified to drive trains

Phil. · 15 Nov 2015

TDK said:
You cannot be a driver manager and do the role if you are not qualified to drive trains

This was the point I was trying to make.

A-driver · 15 Nov 2015

TDK said:
You cannot be a driver manager and do the role if you are not qualified to drive trains

You sort of can. GTR have 2 grades of driver manager. Every driver is allocated a line manager. These don't have a key and have come from furniture shops and supermarkets. They are given basic training in incident investigation and deal with the clerical side. Then they employ competency managers who float about. No driver is allocated one of these but they go about taking downloads, doing ride outs, passion trainees out etc.

ComUtoR · 15 Nov 2015

A-driver said:
Then they employ competency managers who float about. No driver is allocated one of these but they go about taking downloads, doing ride outs, passion trainees out etc.

I assume you mean Passing out trainees ?

If you are does that mean that a competency manager IS qualified to drive a train. If they can't then who is the qualified Driver in charge of the train ?

Cheers tsr, I was a little weirded out there.

tsr · 15 Nov 2015

ComUtoR said:
I assume you mean Passing out trainees ?

If you are does that mean that a competency manager IS qualified to drive a train. If they can't then who is the qualified Driver in charge of the train ?

Competency managers at GTR are qualified to drive trains if they're anything to do with drivers; you also have multi-skilled competency managers who can instruct/assess multiple roles - eg. both drivers and conductors, or shunter drivers and platform staff, or whatever is required. Train crew line managers do have a role in incident investigation and response, but often end up doing much more of the "HR" side (and indeed, when it goes really wrong, PR!). Competency managers may not always be depot specific, and in fact many of them can gain access to various office space but may not be permanently based in a specific location. (Competency managers in some parts of the business can be known as competency development managers, as an aside.)

Minilad · 15 Nov 2015

The phrase "too many chiefs and not enough indians" springs to mind!

A-driver · 15 Nov 2015

ComUtoR said:
I assume you mean Passing out trainees ?

If you are does that mean that a competency manager IS qualified to drive a train. If they can't then who is the qualified Driver in charge of the train ?

Cheers tsr, I was a little weirded out there.

As the above poster said, line managers don't have a key (well some do but the just because they have kept it in their own time as ex DMs). All competency managers have keys and are more what a traditional DM is.

Eng274 · 15 Nov 2015

cambsy said:
Cabbed it once on a 47/8 on a non stop Holyhead-Chester relief in mid 80's, we were doing 99-100 mph on Anglesey and 90 mph most of the way from Bangor to Chester, we gained 20 mins or so on schedule, was an exciting and lively run, bit of a nutter driver, let me blow horn, think the ride in the coaches would have been lively too, have had many 135mph to 140 mph runs on east coast in the 90's, timed and logged them, do miss the good old days when drivers could run hard, brake hard and speed when safe, using there skill and judgement, not like today where its eco driving, brake lightly etc.

Believe it or not, some trains are actually happier with heavier braking than gentle feathering of the brakes (such as lighter, earlier technique). Certain trains fitted with in board disc brakes actually need discs renewed at shorter intervals because lighter braking does not allow full heat transfer into the internal cast iron heat sink. As the heat is concentrated on the disc surface, cracks develop much quicker, rendering them defective much earlier than if they experienced moderate/heavy braking.

I'm not condoning reckless heavy braking for one second, it's just a scenario where it's unfortunate that premature component wear is a by product of vigilant driving.

Bevan Price · 15 Nov 2015

TDK said:
And how would you know this?

Speeds are in place for a reason be it signalling, track infrastructure etc. Mainly down to signal sighting and spacing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Limit has not changed since it was jointed track, and with mechanical signals in very different locations to current colour lights. To me that suggests possible reasons may be either "penny-pinching" to reduce maintenance costs, or "can't be bothered to change things".

Darandio · 15 Nov 2015

Bevan Price said:
Limit has not changed since it was jointed track, and with mechanical signals in very different locations to current colour lights. To me that suggests possible reasons may be either "penny-pinching" to reduce maintenance costs, or "can't be bothered to change things".

But how did you know the speed was oscillating?

HSTFan57 · 15 Nov 2015

As a fan of rail as a mode of transport in general, I find it a bit embarrassing to be on a train that is travelling slower than the vehicles on an adjacent road. The section of rail that runs alongside the M5 between Tiverton Parkway and Exeter comes to mind, the trains often seem to trundle along considerably below line speed. For marketing puposes, it might be worthwhile trying to upgrade the line speed on "visible" bits of track like this.

notadriver · 15 Nov 2015

The line speed there is 100 mph. Most cars drivers exceed the 70 mph motorway limit as its only advisory and they know from experience how fast they can go safely.

Bevan Price · 15 Nov 2015

Phil. said:
How can these people be in charge of, lead and advise train drivers?
What would they say to Bill Hoole coming down Stoke bank in 1959 at 112 mph.

http://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/23-05-1959.html

Probably "congratulations" - it was an officially sanctioned fast run for which some speed limits had been temporarily eased.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Darandio said:
But how did you know the speed was oscillating?

GPS. Although GPS speed readings are not always constant, it is usually clear when the train speed is also fluctuating, and this is often supported by point to pint average speeds.

HarleyDavidson · 15 Nov 2015

My point to pint average speed is usually measured as a matter of hours, not miles per hour.

class26 · 15 Nov 2015

notadriver said:
The line speed there is 100 mph. Most cars drivers exceed the 70 mph motorway limit as its only advisory and they know from experience how fast they can go safely.

70 mph is NOT advisory on motorways , it is the MAXIMUM speed currently permitted by law. OK, its too low for modern cars but its not correct to say it is advisory !

notadriver · 15 Nov 2015

I was being sarcastic. Many road vehicle drivers treat speed limits as advisory.

D1009 · 15 Nov 2015

notadriver said:
I was being sarcastic. Many road vehicle drivers treat speed limits as advisory.

On the subject of road vehicle speeds, one in which I have very little interest, what I want to know is why is it necessary for commercial vehicles to have speed limiters, but not private cars?

furnessvale · 15 Nov 2015

D1009 said:
On the subject of road vehicle speeds, one in which I have very little interest, what I want to know is why is it necessary for commercial vehicles to have speed limiters, but not private cars?

It is necessary for ALL road vehicles to have speed limiters but, given the strength of the petrolhead lobby, it would be political suicide for any governing party to impose it on private cars so the carnage continues.

najaB · 15 Nov 2015

Bevan Price said:
... and this is often supported by point to pint average speeds.

Is that the speed over the last journey of the day?

ainsworth74 · 15 Nov 2015

furnessvale said:
It is necessary for ALL road vehicles to have speed limiters but, given the strength of the petrolhead lobby, it would be political suicide for any governing party to impose it on private cars so the carnage continues.

Presumably any limiter to private cars would have to be set at 70mph seeing as that is the highest legal limit. In which case how many accidents occur where speeds in excess of 70mph were a contributing factor?

furnessvale · 15 Nov 2015

ainsworth74 said:
Presumably any limiter to private cars would have to be set at 70mph seeing as that is the highest legal limit. In which case how many accidents occur where speeds in excess of 70mph were a contributing factor?

Not at all. GPS technology would enable variable speed limiters to be fitted which would limit the speed to that of the individual road the vehicle was on. Now that really would have the petrolheads squealing!

matchmaker · 15 Nov 2015

furnessvale said:
It is necessary for ALL road vehicles to have speed limiters but, given the strength of the petrolhead lobby, it would be political suicide for any governing party to impose it on private cars so the carnage continues.

Carnage? Hardly. The majority of fatal accidents occur on country roads, caused by excessive speed for the road/road conditions/driver skill/vehicle.

najaB · 15 Nov 2015

matchmaker said:
Carnage? Hardly. The majority of fatal accidents occur on country roads, caused by excessive speed for the road/road conditions/driver skill/vehicle.

I don't quite understand the point you're making. You say that there isn't carnage caused by excessive speed then say that the majority of accidents are caused by excessive speed. Colour me confused.:?

Minilad · 15 Nov 2015

I was under the impression speed is a factor in only around 25-30% of accidents. Or so that nice Mr Clarkson used to say on one of his many anti speed camera rants

furnessvale · 15 Nov 2015

Minilad said:
I was under the impression speed is a factor in only around 25-30% of accidents. Or so that nice Mr Clarkson used to say on one of his many anti speed camera rants

If that nice Mr Clarkson said it, it MUST be true!

Train driver speed habits

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