2016 US election discussion

Mag_seven · 8 Dec 2015

Is what Donald Trump is saying just the words of a bigot or is he saying what everyone actually thinks but are afraid to say?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35037701

Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump has provoked condemnation from across the political spectrum, by saying Muslims should be banned from entering the US.

Republicans, Democrats, Muslim leaders, the UN and foreign leaders criticised the call as dangerous and divisive.

Mr Trump said many Muslims nursed a "hatred" towards America...

RailUK Forums

mikeg · 8 Dec 2015

Can't it be both? Just because the majority of people in one country think something doesn't make it true or the morally correct course of action.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in democracy and all, but it still has the potential to make mistakes.

Oswyntail · 8 Dec 2015

He is a bigot, and what he is saying rarely makes any sense (How does he stop a Muslim at entry to the US?). More money than sense.
Of course it is possible that large numbers secretly agree with him. This does not stop him, or them, being bigots on this subject. And that is a potential problem.

Minilad · 8 Dec 2015

Trump is a fool. Hopefully after that an unelectable fool

Bletchleyite · 8 Dec 2015

Au contraire, he knows exactly what he is doing. Hopefully unelectable, though, as while he is clearly intelligent his views are totally obnoxious.

NSEFAN · 8 Dec 2015

When the president is clearly an idiot, it begs the question as to who's really running the show.

Merseysider · 8 Dec 2015

I've seen several (justified) comparisons of Mr Trump to a certain moustached dictator. The similarities are there.

There will be people who disagree, but I think the man is a racist cretin whose views have no place in today's society.

generalvegitable · 8 Dec 2015

mutter mutter petition to ban him from the UK mutter mutter

backontrack · 8 Dec 2015

Boo. I create a funny new concept in the joke thread, but it's overshadowed by this idiot, of all people.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

JakeF said:
I've seen several (justified) comparisons of Mr Trump to a certain moustached dictator. The similarities are there.

There will be people who disagree, but I think the man is a racist cretin whose views have no place in today's society.

generalvegitable said:
mutter mutter petition to ban him from the UK mutter mutter

Agreed. Trump is a conceited, moronic bigot. And he looks like he has a cat stapled to his head.

deltic · 8 Dec 2015

Mag_seven said:
Is what Donald Trump is saying just the words of a bigot or is he saying what everyone actually thinks but are afraid to say?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35037701

He is saying what his electorate want to hear (ie a significant proportion of Republican party members). However the wider electorate often has very different views. The same applies in most political parties. The Tories have in the past and are about to again, tear themselves apart on Europe an issue that most of the electorate think is pretty unimportant. Labour has elected a leader who is probably to the left of the majority of the electorate. The concerns and interests of active party members (who are not representative of the wider electorate) are apparent in the party leaders they choose - while Jo Public thinks why on earth did they elect them.

I would suggest the majority of the public would not have chosen Michael Foot, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband or Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leaders or Margaret Thatcher, John Major, William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith or Michael Howard for the Tories.

Ianno87 · 8 Dec 2015

Trump is going purely for the Lowest Common Denominator vote - the people who'll just put a cross by the name of the person they've heard of on TV, rather than based on any rational/critical thought.

I've a horrible feeling it's a strategy that might actually work, sadly...

90sWereBetter · 8 Dec 2015

Trump's also been running his mouth about London, about how there's no-go areas of the city (total and utter hogwash, from my own experience), and how much he hates it. As a Londoner, I feel we as a city must be doing something right to displease the Donald.

Long may he continue to be the leader for the Republican nomination - it makes a Democrat whitewash in 2016 all the more likely. They should easily retain the White House and retake the Senate. Mind you, I'd prefer Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton, but when you see the lunatics on the Republican side, you kinda have to support Clinton out of necessity.

TheEdge · 8 Dec 2015

90sWereBetter said:
Long may he continue to be the leader for the Republican nomination - it makes a Democrat whitewash in 2016 all the more likely. They should easily retain the White House and retake the Senate.

Problem is it doesn't. Never underestimate the power of the electorate to be utter morons. He is behaving fairly similar to Farage, saying lots of things which to some seem extreme but to a significant number are "he says what we are thinking", especially in a nation as nationalistic/isolationist as the USA.

That and without invoking Godwin's law the similarities between him and Adolf are a disturbingly common.

DarloRich · 8 Dec 2015

the man is a total wazzock - Bet the Yanks vote for him then!

Latest example of wazzocky behaviour: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35037007

BBC: Donald Trump: Police 'afraid for their lives' in 'radicalised' London

and the response:

BBC: The mayor of London said the comments were "complete and utter nonsense".

A Metropolitan Police spokeswoman said: "We would not normally dignify such comments with a response, however on this occasion we think it's important to state to Londoners that Mr Trump could not be more wrong.

"Any candidate for the presidential election in the United States of America is welcome to receive a briefing from the Met Police on the reality of policing London."

Mr Johnson said police officers were doing "excellent work" in London.

"Crime has been falling steadily both in London and in New York - the only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump," he added.

Tetchytyke · 8 Dec 2015

Mag_seven said:
Is what Donald Trump is saying just the words of a bigot or is he saying what everyone actually thinks but are afraid to say?

I think he knows plenty of people are bigots and that nobody ever got poor underestimating the intelligence of the general public.

As others have pointed out, and without bringing Godwin into this, the similarities between him and Hitler and Mussolini are chilling.

Like Farage and the Front National, he understands the political power of angry, disenfranchised people happy to victimise the bogeyman to feel better about the failures of their lives.

TheEdge · 8 Dec 2015

Arctic Troll said:
Like Farage and the Front National, he understands the political power of angry, disenfranchised people happy to victimise the bogeyman to feel better about the failures of their lives.

What worries me there is the political and economic conditions today seem fairly similar to those of the 1920s and 30s that led to the all to common dictators of that period. Especially a flatlined economy and a lot of angry people looking for their scapegoat.

Japan, Russia, Germany, Italy and Spain. All found a scapegoat and all ended up as dictatorships of varying evilness.

Tim R-T-C · 8 Dec 2015

I think Trump's advantage is that he is talking about things that a lot of his potential voters know little about.

His comments about London and Birmingham (a few months back) are easy to get away with because most Americans won't have experience of British cities.

His comments about Muslims similarly; because there are relatively few Muslims in the US, particularly in the key Republican states, most people don't have experience of living and working with real Muslims and all they hear on the news about Islam is about the extremists.

His success is proof that people will take at face value anything they are told, if it is done by someone in a powerful position.

GrimsbyPacer · 8 Dec 2015

I'm getting very worried about this.
People like Trump have knee-jerk reactions when things are in the news which could start a war. Trump is turning into the worst presidential candidate in decades, I recall reading about one proposing to nuke China but luckily never won, I can't remember the name though.

Trump's views appear racist, fascist, anti-Muslim, & Nazi-like, he shoildn't be allowed to win the contest no matter how many idiots vote for him.
Shouldn't Trump be arrested for inciting hatred against a religion?
Surely it's illegal there too?

backontrack · 8 Dec 2015

America have had some great candidate haven't they?

-Sarah Palin who confused North and South Korea and invented the word 'refudiate'
-George W. Bush who said 'they misunderestimate me' and 'they never stop thinking of ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we'
-Going back a while, Dan Quayle who couldn't even spell 'potato' whilst a 12-year-old could (he corrected him in a spelling bee, I heard)

...and now Trump. His wife's name is Ivana - Ivana Trump? :lol:

me123 · 8 Dec 2015

I think Donald Trump is a genuine psychopath, who is currently the greatest threat to global security. Comparisons with Hitler have gone well beyond the frivolity of Godwin's Law: Trump's policies seem to be lifted directly from Mein Kampf.

It is quite spectacular that, today, Trump has gathered criticism from across the political spectrum in the UK. That is unheard of. Politicians tend to steer clear of the democratic process of other countries, particularly those of the United States. I truly hope that the petition above (and here's the link again for those who haven't signed it) reaches 100,000 signatures. I don't expect Trump to actually be banned, just the thought of it being debated in Parliament would send a strong message.

The scary thing is that he might actually win. He won the Iowa caucus quite securely (with 33% of the overall vote). I can only hope that, if the loony party in America do select Trump as their candidate, that not only will just about anyone with a democratic leaning vote against him, I suspect a huge number of Republicans would do likewise.

And for something on a lighter note, here's Donald Trump being followed by a man with a tuba.
[youtube]7QosyPyUTag[/youtube]

londiscape · 8 Dec 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
I'm getting very worried about this.
People like Trump have knee-jerk reactions when things are in the news which could start a war. Trump is turning into the worst presidential candidate in decades, I recall reading about one proposing to nuke China but luckily never won, I can't remember the name though.

Trump's views appear racist, fascist, anti-Muslim, & Nazi-like, he shoildn't be allowed to win the contest no matter how many idiots vote for him.
Shouldn't Trump be arrested for inciting hatred against a religion?
Surely it's illegal there too?

Free speech protection is much stronger over there, as a constitutional protection under the First Amendment. Which is ironic in this situation, as the same Amendment protects free exercise of religion and therefore would defeat entirely that which Trump is proposing as unconstitutional.

But I suspect he doesn't really care about such petty things as the rule of law...

me123 · 8 Dec 2015

GrimsbyPacer said:
Trump's views appear racist, fascist, anti-Muslim, & Nazi-like, he shoildn't be allowed to win the contest no matter how many idiots vote for him.
Shouldn't Trump be arrested for inciting hatred against a religion?
Surely it's illegal there too?

There's no such crime in the USA as incitement of racial/religious hatred. It would be in direct contradiction to the First Amendment to the Constitution. Any law abridging the freedom of speech is prohibited by this amendment.

The Founding Fathers said:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As "Londiscape" rightly notes, most of Trump's policies are also in direct violation of this amendment.

Tim R-T-C · 8 Dec 2015

backontrack said:
...and now Trump. His wife's name is Ivana - Ivana Trump?

I do wonder if he is entirely a fictional character who has escaped from some sort of political parody show.

Which is funny because I wondered the same about our dear Boris and now he and Trump are coming to verbal blows over the London comments.

If they actually meet, the universe might implode...

southern442 · 8 Dec 2015

It is really disgusting how Americans think that all Muslims are members of ISIS, and all UK Muslims are trying to radicalise everyone, and how apparently Birmingham is a 'no-go' zone for Non-Muslims. If the US vote this old fart into office, their ignorance will only increase.

me123 · 8 Dec 2015

southern442 said:
It is really disgusting how Americans think that all Muslims are members of ISIS, and all UK Muslims are trying to radicalise everyone, and how apparently Birmingham is a 'no-go' zone for Non-Muslims. If the US vote this old fart into office, their ignorance will only increase.

In all fairness, let's not tar all Americans with the same brush. The fact that he's gathered as much support is deeply concerning. But Trump has also received widespread condemnation from across the political spectrum in the US, and a large number US citizens are currently denouncing Trump.

Tim R-T-C · 8 Dec 2015

southern442 said:
It is really disgusting how Americans think that all Muslims are members of ISIS, and all UK Muslims are trying to radicalise everyone, and how apparently Birmingham is a 'no-go' zone for Non-Muslims. If the US vote this old fart into office, their ignorance will only increase.

A generalisation about people generalising?!

As I mentioned, there are relatively few Muslims in the US (about 0.8% of the population compared to over 5% in the UK) but people think there are far more:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/muslim-population-us-new-poll-shows-none-us-have-any-idea-392930 - survey of US citizens with people thinking that up to 15% of the country are Muslim.

WestCoast · 8 Dec 2015

The U.S. is about as diverse in terms of backgrounds and lifestyles as it gets, but when I've been in small town America it was noticeable to me that a lot of people rarely get the chance to mix with people from different backgrounds with areas being starkly divided. Very different in the big cosmopolitan cities of course, but they probably aren't likely to want Trump.

jon0844 · 8 Dec 2015

me123 said:
In all fairness, let's not tar all Americans with the same brush. The fact that he's gathered as much support is deeply concerning. But Trump has also received widespread condemnation from across the political spectrum in the US, and a large number US citizens are currently denouncing Trump.

I was in New York shortly before we went to war in Iraq (2003) and most people, many of whom were protesting just like in London (not that you'd know if you watched Fox in the hotel later that night), were very much more open minded than people here might expect if you allow yourself to believe in the same stereotypes that Trump is relying on to vilify Muslims.

The problem is there are clearly towns, cities and entire states that are somewhat less open minded and potentially very dangerous.

WelshBluebird · 8 Dec 2015

WestCoast said:
The U.S. is about as diverse in terms of backgrounds and lifestyles as it gets, but when I've been in small town America it was noticeable to me that a lot of people rarely get the chance to mix with people from different backgrounds with areas being starkly divided. Very different in the big cosmopolitan cities of course, but they probably aren't likely to want Trump.

To be fair, you get the same in many places over here. The vast majority (probably something like 95%) of kids in the school with me (not that long ago, I'm 25 now) were white British and born in the area, and pretty much the only places where you would see a "foreigner" was in the Chinese or Indian restaurants. It has changed a little since then with some Poles taking factory and bus driving jobs, but it is still the case the people don't come into contact with people from other cultures much.
Of course there is the irony that these places also tend to get a fairly high number of people supporting UKIP, Britain First etc (or supporting people like Trump in the US).

Butts · 9 Dec 2015

Trump may be obnoxious with extreme views that many feel are distasteful, however the guy must have some sort of intelligence and business acumen as he is worth a few $Billion !!

Someone earlier mentioned "The Cat stapled to his head" - when he visited Scotland and the winds got up the poor moggie or combover was not up to it and left a dishevelled mess where his barnet was - hilhairious :oops:

2016 US election discussion

Forum Staff

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Attachments

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member