Southern/SouthEastern liveries 2005

Hello all,

I can't find much info, or some history stock list with liveries, but does anyone have a Platform 5 book or something similar from 2005?

I just need some livery info on the Southern 455's, 421/423's and SouthEastern 465/466 stocks. to breakdown what I'm looking for:

455's:
Were any refurbished at this point with the refurbed interior and rubber connection off. I think some were still knocking about in Connex livery? Which numbers were the Southern ones incl refurb's, if they weren't refurbished in that year, then just the numbers in Connex livery if any will do.

421's/423's:

Now IIRC the Connex ones were unbranded just with the white/yellow livery?
Other than that can anyone list the ones in the Southern GoVia livery?

465/466's:

Was SE about? I can't remember, if so, I assume it was SouthEastern yellow doors livery, but I could do with a list of which ones were still in Network SouthEast livery, or which ones are in the new livery, whichever is easier to list. I seem to recall my time at London Bridge seeing quite a few in NSE livery.

I remember the 456's all being in NSE livery bar one in Connex livery.


Any help is much appreciated


James.

Hi there

Still got my 2005 Platform 5 book so will be able to help out - just started looking through now so will reply later once I've got all the info

Thank you very much!

The only ones I have left is the Platform 5 2003 book and ICRS 2006 book. I was going to use the latter for reference, but all the 455's are all in Southern livery, and wasn't sure that a year earlier some were in Connex livery, so wasn't going to rely on that.

As I say, any info is much appreciated

No problem - glad I've kept it! Got a couple from 1980s that I bought and then the 2005 book was my first proper record book so kept it safe.

Here is the list of the Class 455s Southern had - CX - Connex livery, S - Southern livery but unrefurbished, R - refurbished Southern units and N - Network SE livery; 5832 was in a white livery at the time.

455801 S
5802 CX
5803 CX
5804 CX
5805 CX
5806 CX
5807 CX
455808 S
455809 S
5810 CX
5811 CX
455812 S
455813 S
5814 CX
5815 CX
455816 R
455817 R
5818 CX
455819 S
455820 R
5821 CX
5822 CX
455823 S
455824 S
455825 S
455826 R
5827 CX
455828 R
455829 R
455830 R
455831 R
5832 - white
455833 R
455834 R
455835 S
455836 R
455837 R
455838 S
5839 N
455840 R
455841 S
5842 N
5843 N
5844 N
455845 R
5846 N

You can try the archived versions of abrail: http://web.archive.org/web/20050207090356/http://www.abrail.co.uk/emus.htm

There appear to be a few different snapshots of it during 2005, so you can track the changes to some extent

The Class 421s - as you say those in CX livery were plain yellow/white; and those listed as GA did get into the Southern livery - those with the U were white.

421/7

1404 CX
1410 CX
1411 CX

421/4 - PHASE 2 UNITS

1805 CX
1831 CX
1851 U
1853 U
1854 GA
1856 GA
1858 GA
1859 GA
1860 GA
1861 GA
1862 GA
1863 CX
1864 CX
1865 CX
1866 CX
1867 CX
1868 CX
1869 CX

Class 423s - virtually all in CX - I've only put down the Southern ones - there's quite a few 423s that worked for SE and SW.

423/1

3403 CX
3412 CX
3479 CX
3482 CX
3483 CX
3484 CX
3485 CX
3486 CX
3488 CX
3489 CX
3490 CX
3505 CX
3514 GA
3523 CX
3524 CX
3530 CX
3531 CX
3535 CX

423/8

3821 CX
3822 CX
3842 CX
3843 CX
3844 CX



423/9 - All CX livery

3901
3902
3903
3904
3905
3907
3908
3911
3912
3916
3918
3919
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Class 466s

466 - CN - Revised Connex SE livery - white with yellow doors, black window surrounds and grey lower band

001 NT
002 CN
003 CN
004 CN
005 CN
006 CN
007 CN
008 NT
009 NT
010 NT
011 NT
012 NT
013 NT
014 NT
015 NT
016 CN
017 NT * (2+2 SEATING)
018 CN
019 NT
020 CN
021 CN
022 CN
023 CN
024 CN
025 CN
026 CN
027 CN
028 CN
029 CN
030 CN
031 CN
032 CN
033 CN
034 CN
035 CN
036 NT
037 CN
038 NT
039 CN
040 NT
041 NT
042 NT
043 NT
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And finally the Class 465s

CB - Old Connex SE - NSE Blue with a yellow lower bodyside
NT - NSE

Class 465/0

001 to 003 - CB
004 + 005 - NT
006 to 020 - CB
021 to 050 - NT

Class 465/1

151 to 197 - all in NT - BR SE livery

Class 465/2

201 to 227 - CN (bar 214 in Continental Airlines livery - mid blue with gold/yellow script)

228 - NT

229 and 230 - CN

231 - NT

232 to 235 - CN

236 - NT

237 - CN

238 - NT

239 to 249 - CN

250 - NT


Then finally the sole Class 456 that was in Connex was 024.


Hope this all helps you and if you need any more information from 2005 please feel free to ask! Certainly interesting looking back to the past with the old Class 421s and 423s.

Thank you SO much for your time, it really is much appreciated!! Can't believe so many 465's were still in the old Connex livery and a lot in NSE SE livery! It's one of those things I wished I made notes of, at least you still have the book, and thank you Domh245 for the link too, will be useful for the surrounding years

Those years I spent more time spotting, hadn't discovered bashing then, missed a lot of Slammer rides!! So annoyed I didn't do them!

I'm making a 2005 Rush Hour scenario pack for Railworks, on the South London to Brighton route, hence the liveries question.

One thing I'm trying to work out, did the South Central 421's & 423's only have one First Class coach, a DCTL, with a DSTL at the other end, or did the 423's have DCTL's at both ends? I assume the First Class formations are the same as the SouthEastern sets?

Thank you again for your time and detailed response

One extra point regarding the CIGs in Connex livery is that some units retained the "south central" bit of the "connex south central" branding on the driving trailer composites. This is also true of the 319s in 2005 (some still with Brighton Express door stickers) and some of the thumpers on the nearside of the motor coach (opposite side to the radiator grilles) although these departed in 2004.

The ones with no "south central" lettering, including I believe all the VEPs and 455s, and the rest of the thumpers ended up unbranded because Connex dropped the "south central" and indeed "south eastern" brandings from their later repaints.

Also appropriate for your scenario would be the 508s which worked some Tunbridge Wells to London Bridge via Redhill trips. These got full "connex south eastern" branding with the original logo, then the logo was covered over when the new logo was introduced on the new 375s and the networkers, and then from 2003 the "connex" was covered up leaving just "south eastern" by 2005. Oh and one 508 got white and yellow doors SET livery, can't remember the number but it's pictured on the Kent Rail website.

Hope that helps, all very minute details but worth mentioning I hope

heart-of-wessex said:

Thank you SO much for your time, it really is much appreciated!! Can't believe so many 465's were still in the old Connex livery and a lot in NSE SE livery! It's one of those things I wished I made notes of, at least you still have the book, and thank you Domh245 for the link too, will be useful for the surrounding years

Those years I spent more time spotting, hadn't discovered bashing then, missed a lot of Slammer rides!! So annoyed I didn't do them!

I'm making a 2005 Rush Hour scenario pack for Railworks, on the South London to Brighton route, hence the liveries question.

One thing I'm trying to work out, did the South Central 421's & 423's only have one First Class coach, a DCTL, with a DSTL at the other end, or did the 423's have DCTL's at both ends? I assume the First Class formations are the same as the SouthEastern sets?

Thank you again for your time and detailed response

Click to expand...

You're more than welcome! I wish I'd got on the old slammers however I was a couple of years too late; just like the old character of them really. 2005/6 was when I started noting train types down and starting to widen my riding of them - certainly more interesting round 2003/4 with a mix of slammers, new stock coming in etc.

The Class 421s had a formation of - DTSso - MBSO - TSO - DTSso and the 423s the same - hope that's some sort of help - the way it is in the book seems to missed off the L off DTSso.

That scenario sounds excellent so good luck with it and if you need any more stock details, just ask

Downlander said:

Oh and one 508 got white and yellow doors SET livery, can't remember the number but it's pictured on the Kent Rail website.

Click to expand...

That would be 508208 you're thinking of:

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/final-workings/508/508finmth03.html

TH172341 said:

You're more than welcome! I wish I'd got on the old slammers however I was a couple of years too late; just like the old character of them really. 2005/6 was when I started noting train types down and starting to widen my riding of them - certainly more interesting round 2003/4 with a mix of slammers, new stock coming in etc.

The Class 421s had a formation of - DTSso - MBSO - TSO - DTSso and the 423s the same - hope that's some sort of help - the way it is in the book seems to missed off the L off DTSso.

That scenario sounds excellent so good luck with it and if you need any more stock details, just ask

Click to expand...

Interesting, was there no First Class? does the DTSso not have a small First Class compartment?

Ah yes forgot abouth the Class 508, shame theres no 508 for the sim at the moment, the class 313/315 is out soon might be able to use it as a look-a-like

I think there was a First Class section at the one end of the unit - highlighted by the yellow band.

Just as much as I thought, the Class 423 Connex & Southern reskins set I have only has a DTCL with Yellow band, a TSO and MBSO. I dont recall the 423's having small first class at both ends of a 4 car set?

Yeah - don't believe the 423s had a first class at both ends of a 4 car set - certainly not from looking back at some old photos of them.

Hi, I've been commuting on the Brighton Main Line for around 18 years now and used to travel on the 421/423's daily.

Originally they both did have First Class at both ends of the unit. The 421's consisted of the compartments for half of the carriage up to the driving compartment at each end, with the very last compartment (the one next to the driving compartment) always being standard class.
The rest of the carriage was 'open' 2+2 style seating in standard class.

The 423's were much the same except the seats up to the driving compartment were the 'open' standard class ones and they were in a 3+2 formation. The first class compartments then filled the other half of the carriage up to the middle carriages.

Towards the end of their life (and this may have been around 2005 - sorry can't remember), one set of first class compartments were declassified or removed.
The 421's retained their compartments but became standard class (commuters made a beeline for these as you got the extra space!).
The 423's actually had the compartment walls removed so you ended up with a totally open carriage, where half of the seats were '4 seat bench seats' with the gangway on one side (where the corridor originally was).

Hope that is of some use.

Weren't the first lot of 365s also in Connex Blue/Yellow? 365501 to about 16 (I'm guessing there)...

Not sure when they transferred to Great Northern but definitely remember seeing some 365s in the Connex livery.

Yes I'm using a Connex 365 (Class 465 reskin) acting as Connex 465's. I don't think they were on SE then though, I'm sure I remember seeing 365's at Kings Cross around 2004

365s were definitely delivered to South Eastern as well as Great Northern. The bulk of the order was for Great Northern though.

Like I said, I'm not sure when the Connex ones transferred to Great Northern, but I do recall 365s in Connex South Eastern livery.

TBSchenker said:

365s were definitely delivered to South Eastern as well as Great Northern. The bulk of the order was for Great Northern though.

Like I said, I'm not sure when the Connex ones transferred to Great Northern, but I do recall 365s in Connex South Eastern livery.

Click to expand...

The Connex 365s began to transfer to WAGN in late 2004 to allow 317s to transfer to Thameslink for the St Pancras blockade iirc.

I think originally 16 of the 365s went to Connex with the remaining 25 to WAGN. I think GatwickDepress is correct about the timing of the Connex units transferring to WAGN.