BBC News, 9th February 2011. Flood defence funding cut by 8% http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12402284
Hmm.
Hmm.
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Flooding in the Leeds area: impact on the railway
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Agreed. This was advocated by a professor in Hydrology at Reading University during the Somerset floods in 2014. Unfortunately Liz Truss has failed to take heed of this holistic approach....
Isnt the issue also related to development everywhere. Basically we have tarmaced and concreted so much land we divert all the water in to ditches or drains where it flows in to rivers. Historically it used to soak in to the earth?
Until a major redevelopment our local Waitrose used to flash flood regularly. (Twice a year or so). After the first time a store refit just lifted the lowest shelf up a couple of inches. Meant the store could flood and drain and reopen quickly without ruining the stock.
I am not sure how much of a flood risk the places currently flooded were meant to be,
Until a major redevelopment our local Waitrose used to flash flood regularly. (Twice a year or so). After the first time a store refit just lifted the lowest shelf up a couple of inches. Meant the store could flood and drain and reopen quickly without ruining the stock.
I am not sure how much of a flood risk the places currently flooded were meant to be,
trainophile
Established Member
That is very true. I believe you have to apply for planning permission now to change your front garden to hard standing if it has previously been grass and/or flowerbeds.
We are the last house up, on the hill we live on, that still has a grassed front garden. One by one all the neighbours have concreted or paved over theirs, to make more parking. When it rains nowadays, even not very heavily, there is a stream running down the road, whereas there never used to be because people's gardens would absorb most of it.
Multiply that by every street in the country and it's no wonder the rain has nowhere to go.
No longer Yorkshire, but OK. Shipley to East Lancs via Oldham was an interesting drive yesterday afternoon, but that's all - AFAIK no loss of life or serious injury in Yorkshire (or Lancashire), even among non-members
. Mind you, it's lucky Shipley MRS only use the upper floors of their building. ...Seriously, if the water level at Kirkstall was 25cm higher than the previous record (I assume October 2000?) it's no wonder Leeds flooded. There hasn't been a huge amount of development in Airedale over the last 15 years, though there has been some, and AFAIK the Aire is managed by controlled flooding above Keighley not by dredging, as the water flows freely enough.
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johnnychips
Established Member
We were taught that in my Geography degree course in 1979! Easier to seek approval for short term profit than think of long term consequences.
Blamethrower
Member
Quick runoff from the hills is actively encouraged in order to keep the reservoirs full. All valleys West of Leeds have the combination of fast runoff in the hills and mostly concreted valleys with villages.
I lived up there for years and worked by the aire, only once was the water level even close to breaking it's banks. The pictures of Kirkstall Road really hit home as I've never seen it anything like that.
My thoughts are with my Leeds brethren and no doubt there'll be an enquiry. Kirkstall Road part of the aire has always been pretty awful, always full of debris, perhaps that influenced this particular case along with urbanisation of the entire flood plain up to Kirkstall itself
I lived up there for years and worked by the aire, only once was the water level even close to breaking it's banks. The pictures of Kirkstall Road really hit home as I've never seen it anything like that.
My thoughts are with my Leeds brethren and no doubt there'll be an enquiry. Kirkstall Road part of the aire has always been pretty awful, always full of debris, perhaps that influenced this particular case along with urbanisation of the entire flood plain up to Kirkstall itself
Set to continue too...
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johnnychips
Established Member
Fantastic photo! Sell it to the papers and put it on FB!
So what else would you expect a PM to say? Here's my magic wand to make the flood water go away?:roll:
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Exactly, dredging isn't the magical solution that some people seem to think it is!
I reckon dredging does some good. Some 40 years ago the Calder in Dewsbury had some major work done to it and a flood defence channel was put in place (which is normally completely dry). It ran high the other day but didn't break its banks. Without the work having been done, I reckon Asda and B and Q opposite the bus station would have had it, at least
I can vouch for this. We had problems with flooding outside our house again a few weeks ago (we're in West Yorkshire in an area pretty badly affected yesterday) - the drain outside was blocked by compacted leaves and stuff. We ended up clearing it ourselves and we had no issues on Boxing Day. I'm pretty sure the flooding under the bridge at Mirfield station was related to drainage too - I think there are issues round here but the authorities bury their heads in the sand (the same drain outside our house was majorly blocked when we moved here over 3 years ago and it took a year to get the council/Yorkshire Water to take note...they took some 3 Lorry loads of sludge out of the main drain pipe (fresh water drain in the most part...apart from some numpty upstream has tapped a sewer into it) at which point they acknowledged that there may have been an issue...)
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but it on Facebook for sure. It serves a stark reminder why building on flood plains is a bad idea!
I can vouch for this. We had problems with flooding outside our house again a few weeks ago (we're in West Yorkshire in an area pretty badly affected yesterday) - the drain outside was blocked by compacted leaves and stuff. We ended up clearing it ourselves and we had no issues on Boxing Day. I'm pretty sure the flooding under the bridge at Mirfield station was related to drainage too - I think there are issues round here but the authorities bury their heads in the sand (the same drain outside our house was majorly blocked when we moved here over 3 years ago and it took a year to get the council/Yorkshire Water to take note...they took some 3 Lorry loads of sludge out of the main drain pipe (fresh water drain in the most part...apart from some numpty upstream has tapped a sewer into it) at which point they acknowledged that there may have been an issue...)
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but it on Facebook for sure. It serves a stark reminder why building on flood plains is a bad idea!
SouthStand
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Looks photoshop'd to me.
Well the sign may be, but the photo is from Whalley in the "other" Calder Valley just over the hill from me and the location appears genuine enough, off the Accrington Road. And it was posted on FB or tweeted locally.
I agree with that. When the Somerset Levels flood plain flooded, the locals blamed reduced dredging for the floods. The clue as to why they flooded is in the name, i.e. 'flood plain'.
Such building on water meadows next to rivers from high ground might have been an acceptable risk in Victorian industrial towns 200 years ago, but times have changed, not just climatically but in the amount of land removed from those rivers' natural flood management. It is either ignorance or sheer arrogance to assume that a bit of dredging and higher river banks will hold back nature when water just does what gravity dictates.
It will take major changes to all land used that is prone to flooding, not just new developments. Some low-lying housing and industrial buildings may need to be abandoned for good, or human safety may be seriously threatened. It will be regrettable if it takes the serious loss of human life to make the population force change. I does occasionally happen, e.g. the Aberfan disaster effectively changed the attitude to piling coal mine slag heaps anywhere near inhabited land, and that was well before coal mining was wound down to recent levels.
I'd say the hole in your argument is that for many many years the Somerset Levels have been dredged and have, as a result of that, been a suitable place for habitation, with an acceptable flood risk. I would suggest at that time it was a perfectly logical decision to live in the area.
If there had been a widespread consultation and a specific decision that it was, for instance, no longer economic to dredge and pump, then I could understand your argument about the 'clue being in the name'.
In my view it is very difficult to break the link between the widespread end of dredging and the current flood risk. Maybe we do need to reveiew land use and approach the problem from a different angle, however if that is to happen we need to have a comprehensive consultation, years of preparation and compensation to those forced to relocate.
It isn't necessary purely an economic argument. Virtually all the climate experts are saying that the increase in average global temperatures result in the atmosphere holding a higher water content, and the most likely future is for more and heavier rainfall. This means that land use generally must soon be assesed as fit for future use rather than just saying 'well we've always done this so it's OK to continue indefinitely'. That means that many areas that were OK until as recently as 10 years ago may soon become unsustainable.
It is inevitable that the 'compensation' word comes up every time change is even hinted at but when the penny drops and the disproportionate cost of maintaining a 'King Canute' approach to flood management is universally recognised as inappropriate, the popularity of living on flood plains will wane. Given the relatively low population density on the levels, this will be a lesser issue than for those (mostly average working families) living densely packed in urban water meadows in northern post-industrial towns. If cost of flood measures was reckoned on a per-capita basis, the levels would be allowed to return to their natural state as the winter precipitation rises and the urban dwellings would receive a package that not only reduced the likelihood of flooding from of 'unprecedented' rainfall, but also improve the resilience of dwellings and infrastructure.
Bantamzen
Established Member
We managed to get safely home to Baildon yesterday going via Bradford Int / FS. However I have never seen Leeds station so quiet. Given that the main level of disruption was in the Calder / Aire / Wharfe valleys it goes to show just how much of Leeds traffic comes from these three areas. It also made for some interesting DMU combos, we traveled on the 13:25 to Halifax which was made up of a 2 car 144 & one 153, and I also saw a 155 hooked up to a 142.
But crossing the viaduct over Otley Road showed just how bad things were. A seriously shocking amount of damage in the area, and sadly we have relatives who have been very badly affected further up the valley. It is going to take some people and businesses a lot of time and money to recover. My thoughts are with them today.
I think this makes for interesting reading. Even before reading this myself I was chatting to a mate yesterday about how the flooding is related to removal of trees. Dredging at the moment is like trying to empty a bath with the taps turned on. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/farmers-uk-flood-maize-soil-protection
Seems a bit odd how Northern are recommending against all travel in West Yorkshire when realistically there is a full service running as long as your journey doesn't involve a 333 
A few puddles around Castleford Normanton and Leeds as I was in all 3 locations yesterday!
A few puddles around Castleford Normanton and Leeds as I was in all 3 locations yesterday!
stuartmoss
Member
I've been down today, and the Airedale line recovery operation is in full swing. Here's a film taken around Kirkstall, skip forward to 8 minutes, 8 seconds for the flooded Airedale line:
[youtube]sfyM-tebYz4[/youtube]
[youtube]sfyM-tebYz4[/youtube]
matacaster
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Can anyone explain why northern are running
-bradford fsq to skipton
and
-skipton to carlisle
as separate trains, but no thru bradford fsq to carlisle
which would surely be easier for travellers from to leeds as the replacement bus would only need to go to Bradford or Shipley.
-bradford fsq to skipton
and
-skipton to carlisle
as separate trains, but no thru bradford fsq to carlisle
which would surely be easier for travellers from to leeds as the replacement bus would only need to go to Bradford or Shipley.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Can you explain how a 333 could work from Skipton to Carlisle !!!
leedslad82
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I would imagine as most of the 333's are from neville hill there are trying to run the services with the limited stock that is stabled at Skipton? Just a thought
Lack of platform space at Bradford Forster Square?
The last of the water was pumped off of the line today... I guess it's a question as to whether the signalling etc can be repaired over night.
Many thanks - fingers crossed then !
matacaster
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I would have thought that normal 158's on the Leeds-> Carlisle service would have been perfectly adequate (although one or two units might have needed to go north first via alternative route)
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Maybe, but some space surley freed up by lack of Bradford->Leeds trains.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Just a simple explanation, I think. The trains running between Bradford and Skipton were the normal Timetabled trains, and the Leeds to Carlisle just starting from Skipton. It simply wouldn't have entered anybody's head to combine them.
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