Jordy
Established Member
On a related but slightly off topic note, I see the Malmo - Berlin (via Sassnitz) sleeper is running again this summer: http://www.snalltaget.se/ContentPage/Index?page=2814
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City Night Lines in the bin
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feline1
Member
I was saddened to learn of the demise of this service.
Last year I got Eurostar/ICE to Frankfurt for the weekend (on a DB London Spezial - absolutely bargin!), then a City Night Line sleeper to Prague (via Dresden) for a week's holiday, a lovely way to get there.
It was so much better than having to hang around airports and squeeze into a plane and have your shoes searched and blah blah blah.
Glad I caught one before they were gone!
Last year I got Eurostar/ICE to Frankfurt for the weekend (on a DB London Spezial - absolutely bargin!), then a City Night Line sleeper to Prague (via Dresden) for a week's holiday, a lovely way to get there.
It was so much better than having to hang around airports and squeeze into a plane and have your shoes searched and blah blah blah.
Glad I caught one before they were gone!
Just coming back to this - as a regular commuter on NSB and Ruter in Oslo - Norwegian rail have a decent offer on their "Sove" overnight services.
I inquired last year of the cost (as I was taking the sleeper from Bergen to Oslo, a superb service for not much cash) - which came out at 150 kroner (about £15 for the breakfast and shower) - which I found quite reasonable in one of the highest living costs nations on earth.
Not sure if this has been reported before, but the following services will run from December operated by ÖBB.
Vienna and Innsbruck to Hamburg and Düsseldorf (existing Wien services with new portions effectively replacing the Munich CNL, exchanging portions at Nürnberg or Würzburg).
Munich to Venice, Budapest, Zagreb as now; Munich to Rome via Salzburg instead of Brenner (a couple of hours slower).
Zurich to Hamburg via Berlin
In addition there will be a CD sleeper and seats car Zürich-Prague via Linz attached to existing trains.
There is no replacement for Zurich-Amsterdam AFAIK
Vienna and Innsbruck to Hamburg and Düsseldorf (existing Wien services with new portions effectively replacing the Munich CNL, exchanging portions at Nürnberg or Würzburg).
Munich to Venice, Budapest, Zagreb as now; Munich to Rome via Salzburg instead of Brenner (a couple of hours slower).
Zurich to Hamburg via Berlin
In addition there will be a CD sleeper and seats car Zürich-Prague via Linz attached to existing trains.
There is no replacement for Zurich-Amsterdam AFAIK
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MisterT
Member
There will be no replacement for the Amsterdam - Munich/Zürich/Innsbruck CNL, but with the new hourly RE service running from the second half of 2017 between Arnhem and Düsseldorf, the EN from Düsseldorf becomes a good possibility from Amsterdam.
Glad that ÖBB and CD have stepped in to keep these useful night connections, although it seems a bit crazy that some of these services spend so little time in Austria/Czech Republic. What's in for ÖBB to operate Zurich to Hamburg via Berlin?!
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ChiefPlanner
Established Member
I was in Munich last week and staying near the HBF so taking a stroll had a look at the departure for Rome.
A pretty run down and battered selection of stock , dirty externally and with not a lot of passengers boarding. Clearly being run down for the imminent end. A shame.
A pretty run down and battered selection of stock , dirty externally and with not a lot of passengers boarding. Clearly being run down for the imminent end. A shame.
My guess is that they've got resources at both ends so joining the dots makes sense. And has the potential to be profitable if worked as a single train. The CNL sleepers which they will take over are in good nick internally even if they need a repaint.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Quite - even a trip through the wash plant would assist. Old trains or not - you can at least keep them clean. !
duesselmartin
Established Member
A general problem on DB I think
Please Explain
Member
What is likely to happen to the DB staff? Will they become employed by ÖBB or redeployed elsewhere within DB? I hope there will be no redundancies, I've used the CNL's several times over the summer and the crews were fantastic.
duesselmartin
Established Member
Will there, after December, be any trains using the EN catergory be still in operation?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I *think* OeBB will actually be using EN for the official category, even if the brand is different.
A bit like some Railjets are technically ECs (I think).
JonathanP
Member
Yes, most of the CNL routes have been taken over the ÖBB.
Full details here: http://www.oebb.at/en/angebote-ermaessigungen/nightjet (the PDF link on the page includes all the timetables etc.)
If we're talking strictly about train categories, this actually represents a large increase in EN services, since the CityNightLine services had the CNL prefix, but despite the "NightJet" branding the new ÖBB services will run with an EN prefix.
There are also EN routes like Berlin - Budapest/Wien, München - Zagreb, Paris - Moscow which weren't part of CNL and will continue as is.
Full details here: http://www.oebb.at/en/angebote-ermaessigungen/nightjet (the PDF link on the page includes all the timetables etc.)
If we're talking strictly about train categories, this actually represents a large increase in EN services, since the CityNightLine services had the CNL prefix, but despite the "NightJet" branding the new ÖBB services will run with an EN prefix.
There are also EN routes like Berlin - Budapest/Wien, München - Zagreb, Paris - Moscow which weren't part of CNL and will continue as is.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
No - but there are quite serious attempts every now and then to do more in the UK - well aspirations maybe - but the economics are such that it is going t very unlikely.
The Penzance sleeper only just survived withdrawal about 10 years ago. A major local West country campaign saved it...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If the full HS2 route including Scotland ever gets built, I can see us losing the Cally then, but the Westcountry one seems safe from any high-speed investment 
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
One book that needs to be written is a proper , deeply researched business and social history of British sleeper services. A very good friend of mine who as Assistant Station Manager Crewe in the 1970's dealt with many of these trains as a matter of routine - and has many good stories of incidents and alarums.
He is too busy though - even that he has retired. Can you imagine we had Euston to Manchester and Liverpool services....? , or Glasgow to Aberdeen and Inveness..
Indeed - and much discussed on other threads in the UK section.
But then, of course, there were all sorts of slightly obscure sleeper routes on the mainland until the 80s or 90s. Like Paris-Millau-Beziers via the Ligne des Causses ("ce n'est pas direct, monsieur" - when I tried to reserve) or Wien-Lienz or Rostock-Magdeburg-Erfurt or...
duesselmartin
Established Member
considering the former Schweiz Express Amsterdam-Basel had up to 16 coaches and was very busy only 15 years ago, the decline is shocking.
I assume night trains dont fit into NS's concept of 15 min intervals on major routes.
I assume night trains dont fit into NS's concept of 15 min intervals on major routes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's low-cost airlines that killed it, to be honest. The Westcountry sleeper is arguably the most secure because no airline seems to have made a properly serious attempt on the traffic.
Air travel used to be an expensive dark art - people don't realise how recent this was the case - in about 20 years easyJet has gone from nothing to beating BA into submission on short-haul. Now, it's easier and cheaper to book a flight than a rail journey.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In the UK there is very little tax on the fuel for trains - isn't that the same in the rest of Europe, OOI?
gordonthemoron
Established Member
I believe that Germany taxes diesel used by trains. This is the reason that the ICE-TD trains are used on the Berlin-Hamburg-Copenhagen route as they can refuel in Denmark
About ICE-TD:
During late 2016, all class 605 trainsets will be taken out of service.The Germany-Denmark traffic will continue with IC3 trains, from Hamburg, fewer departures. The Berlin traffic will use electric ICE trains. DB does not want to invest in the necessary major overhaul procedure where all components are checked and replaced if needed. DSB was offered to buy the trainsets, however refused to do so. The trains suffer from overall high maintenance cost and high diesel consumption. However, one ICE-TD set will remain in traffic to Copenhagen until around september 2017.
During late 2016, all class 605 trainsets will be taken out of service.The Germany-Denmark traffic will continue with IC3 trains, from Hamburg, fewer departures. The Berlin traffic will use electric ICE trains. DB does not want to invest in the necessary major overhaul procedure where all components are checked and replaced if needed. DSB was offered to buy the trainsets, however refused to do so. The trains suffer from overall high maintenance cost and high diesel consumption. However, one ICE-TD set will remain in traffic to Copenhagen until around september 2017.
duesselmartin
Established Member
interesting that a line that, in my experience, suffers constantly from overcrowding is cut back even further. 3 to 4 departures a day is really poor.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
Exactly, all ICE-TD and IC3 services I have used between Hamburg and Copenhangen have been rammed
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