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Why no container traffic Southampton to Bristol but plenty to Cardiff

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HowardGWR

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I notice on RTT that a planned slot from Bristol FLT to Southampton (RR) does not seem to be used. Also there is no return working planned at all. From Wentloog to Southampton, there appears to be a healthy traffic.

Can our freight experts offer any explanation? Could flows be split at Parkway, sensibly?
 
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furnessvale

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I notice on RTT that a planned slot from Bristol FLT to Southampton (RR) does not seem to be used. Also there is no return working planned at all. From Wentloog to Southampton, there appears to be a healthy traffic.

Can our freight experts offer any explanation? Could flows be split at Parkway, sensibly?

At a guess, the Severn and the cost of crossing it just tips the balance against road haulage for the longer journey.
 

Freightmaster

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I understand that most of the traffic to Bristol FLT traffic is imported wine,
which is mainly handled at Tilbury, Gateway and Felixstowe.

That said, there were trains to/from Southampton most weeks in 2015,
usually on a Friday/Saturday, so there must be at least a small demand
for movements on that axis too.

MARK
 

fgwrich

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I understand that most of the traffic to Bristol FLT traffic is imported wine,
which is mainly handled at Tilbury, Gateway and Felixstowe.

That said, there were trains to/from Southampton most weeks in 2015,
usually on a Friday/Saturday, so there must be at least a small demand
for movements on that axis too.

MARK

That's how I understand it too, I think the bottling company had part paid for the reopening of the terminal in Bristol to allow the wine to be imported and deliver to brizzle.
 

HowardGWR

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I understand that most of the traffic to Bristol FLT traffic is imported wine,
which is mainly handled at Tilbury, Gateway and Felixstowe.

That said, there were trains to/from Southampton most weeks in 2015,
usually on a Friday/Saturday, so there must be at least a small demand
for movements on that axis too.

MARK
Thanks, yes, I had heard about the wine, - I suppose the distribution centre is in Bristol, for the south west and possibly Wales too. However, I do find it strange that there is so much traffic from Wentloog and so small an amount from Bristol. Having mentioned distribution centres, perhaps there are more of those in South Wales.
 

RichmondCommu

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Can our freight experts offer any explanation? Could flows be split at Parkway, sensibly?

I'm not a railway professional but by splitting a train at Parkway you would of course need an additional loco and crew which would push up the cost. That's also assuming that you have the capacity to keep at least one railway track occupied whilst the train is split. That said I suspect you know Bristol Parkway rather better than I do :)
 

221129

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Thanks, yes, I had heard about the wine, - I suppose the distribution centre is in Bristol, for the south west and possibly Wales too. However, I do find it strange that there is so much traffic from Wentloog and so small an amount from Bristol. Having mentioned distribution centres, perhaps there are more of those in South Wales.

Wentloog is quite a bit larger than Bristol FLT...
 

cogload

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Distance not economic and the direct route cannot handle more than W8 anyway.
 

The Planner

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I'm not a railway professional but by splitting a train at Parkway you would of course need an additional loco and crew which would push up the cost. That's also assuming that you have the capacity to keep at least one railway track occupied whilst the train is split. That said I suspect you know Bristol Parkway rather better than I do :)

You could do it in the yard at Parkway quite easily if you wanted to.
 

HSTfan!!!

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Would there be room? It seems to have several rakes of wagons in whenever I've gone past...

Yes, bring the train in on Down Goods Loop or Down Reception (nothing stables permanently on these roads afaik), split, take first portion forward, loco out of stoke Gifford on to the remaining portion and forward.
 

HowardGWR

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Yes, bring the train in on Down Goods Loop or Down Reception (nothing stables permanently on these roads afaik), split, take first portion forward, loco out of stoke Gifford on to the remaining portion and forward.

I see the point about a trip working engine, but one could imagine it could fit in between other activities.

There is a point to this query which has to do with saving the intermediate roads (A350, A36 for example) from any need to expand capacity for HGV traffic. Those roads cross AsONB and other sensitive sites such as Bath city and Salisbury meadows. I appreciate that the direct rail route is only W8 Bath to Salisbury (although have there not been enhancements at Limpley Stoke, etc) but is W10/12 from Laverstock to Southampton, I believe, and the Wentloog and Liberty trains take the route to Reading and then south via Basingstoke. A recent bridge strike at Wilton (see other thread on A36 HGV threats and wince) is another reason to keep long distance traffic off this route.

Clearly the "GWR" route (Great Way Round) is already profitable and I would have thought splitting at Stoke Gifford would be a way of increasing service frequency to Cardiff and Bristol.
 
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keith43003

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Or alternatively, run into Liberty Lane, split train and run round, second half run to Wentloog and vice versa for the return trip. One Loco, one driver, one path. Easily achievable in a day.
 

LateThanNever

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Thanks, yes, I had heard about the wine, - I suppose the distribution centre is in Bristol, for the south west and possibly Wales too. However, I do find it strange that there is so much traffic from Wentloog and so small an amount from Bristol. Having mentioned distribution centres, perhaps there are more of those in South Wales.

Not a distribution centre but the UK bottling base, Accolade Park, which bottles for many wine brands and UK supermarket own labels. The shipping containers which are filled with bulk wine will carry 2.5 times more than one filled with bottles, and Accolade was receiving 8,000 containers per year at the operation in 2012. Much more info for those interested here: http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/how-wine-travels-nowadays-in-bulk
 

Wavertreelad

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I understand that most of the traffic to Bristol FLT traffic is imported wine,
which is mainly handled at Tilbury, Gateway and Felixstowe.

That said, there were trains to/from Southampton most weeks in 2015,
usually on a Friday/Saturday, so there must be at least a small demand
for movements on that axis too.

MARK

It probably depends on the origin of the wine and which shipping lines are used as well. The use on Friday and Saturday suggests the moves are planned against a particular service which might arrive in Southampton on a Tuesday or Wednesday. MSC returned to Southampton last year as part of their global agreement with Maersk. This service could bring wine from Australia, whilst the Gateway moves would come from Latin America and South Africa, whilst the Felixstowe moves could come from anywhere. However, MSC's preference would likely be to tranship the cargo from Antwerp to it's dedicated feeder vessel that calls at Portbury on a weekly basis. This vessel often then returns via Liverpool but it would cheaper for MSC to load surplus empties at Portbury on this vessel and ship them back to Antwerp, thus perhaps explaining the no return rail working, which also presumably pushes the cost up as well. As MSC is the only deep sea container operator to use Portbury on a regular basis they would have a cost advantage other shipping lines who would have no alternative but to either accept an export load with a subsidised haulage or repositioning empty units back to local depots or a port. Interestingly MSC are also involved is moving containers of wine from Liverpool to Irlam for the Co-Op and supermarkets this could be part of the same deal.
 

keith43003

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Or alternatively, run into Liberty Lane, split train and run round, second half run to Wentloog and vice versa for the return trip. One Loco, one driver, one path. Easily achievable in a day.

With a crew change at Cardiff/Bristol (the latter probably easier for the Eastleigh Intermodal men/alternatively Bristol Heavy Haul men covering)
 
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