'Only two bidders for SWT Franchise'

Matt Taylor · 21 Jan 2016

Passenger Transport magazine is reporting that Stagecoach is to face only one rival bidder for the SWT franchise, largely due to the increased number of franchises currently under offer but also due to the lack of clarity for future operations of the franchise not least because of Tfl's ambitions but also because of the potential for Crossrail 2. In addition there is the small matter of the large amount of work to be carried out in the Waterloo remodelling project and the uncertainty of the project to wire Basingstoke to Southampton.

Note also that in two weeks Tim Shoveller moves from SWT MD to head of Stagecoach UK Rail operations and will be putting together the bid for the new franchise (I understand).

RailUK Forums

pemma · 21 Jan 2016

Does that mean only one other company were interested or that DfT have only shortlisted 2 companies?

Note only the 'passport holding' companies are allowed to be shortlisted for franchise bidding now:
Abellio Transport Group Limited
Arriva UK Trains Limited
First Rail Holdings Limited
Go-Ahead Holding Limited
Govia Limited
Keolis (UK) Limited
MTR Corporation (UK) Limited
National Express Trains Limited
Stagecoach Group Plc
Trenitalia SpA
Virgin Holdings Limited

https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ualification-questionnaire-pqq-passport-award

So while the likes of Serco and Renfe were trying to get UK rail franchises not that long ago they can't bid.

HarleyDavidson · 21 Jan 2016

Passport holding companies? What are they? UK based?

pemma · 21 Jan 2016

HarleyDavidson said:
Passport holding companies? What are they? UK based?

More information (and a lot of text which doesn't mean anything) available on the link above, including large pdfs detailing the process.

The Ham · 21 Jan 2016

HarleyDavidson said:
Passport holding companies? What are they? UK based?

some key quotes from the link above

the passport is valid for a period of up to 4 years and in that time, applicants will be able to express their interest in all future franchise competitions without the need to submit the same information each time.

The department is focused on delivering better value for tax payers and this announcement supports that.

Basically it's a way for potential TOCs to preregister their interest in bidding and then they don't need to resubmit the same information for the same people at DfT to re-read each time they put in a tender submission. It should in theory reduce red tape.

HSTEd · 21 Jan 2016

In other words its designed to throw another hurdle in front of new bidders to ensure the same old ones win the franchises every time. Strengthening the oligopoly.

andrewkeith5 · 21 Jan 2016

HSTEd said:
In other words its designed to throw another hurdle in front of new bidders to ensure the same old ones win the franchises every time. Strengthening the oligopoly.

That's EU procurement laws for you. You're not allowed to bid for any public sector supply contract unless you can detail massive experience in successfully delivering previous similar contracts.

talltim · 21 Jan 2016

New bidders can register for a passport

andrewkeith5 · 21 Jan 2016

talltim said:
New bidders can register for a passport

They will have to respond to a pass a Pre-Qualification Questionnaire though, so unless you're already a transport company you're pretty much out.

The Ham · 21 Jan 2016

talltim said:
New bidders can register for a passport

As far as I can tell new bidders don't have to have a passport to bid, rather if they don't they have to complete the pre qualifying questionnaire for each bid they make (I.e. if you are bidding for more than one you may as well get a passport)

cjmillsnun · 21 Jan 2016

I hope the other bidder is not Govia.

Whilst they are not responsible for many of the issues on their franchises, Stagecoach comes across as better managed.

ainsworth74 · 21 Jan 2016

Do we know who the other bidder might be?

simonw · 21 Jan 2016

andrewkeith5 said:
That's EU procurement laws for you. You're not allowed to bid for any public sector supply contract unless you can detail massive experience in successfully delivering previous similar contracts.

Nothing to do with the EU.

pdeaves · 21 Jan 2016

The Ham said:
As far as I can tell new bidders don't have to have a passport to bid, rather if they don't they have to complete the pre qualifying questionnaire for each bid they make (I.e. if you are bidding for more than one you may as well get a passport)

Correct. 'Passport' holders have already completed some of the paperwork; other companies can bid if they fill out the paperwork.

pete_m911 · 21 Jan 2016

cjmillsnun said:
I hope the other bidder is not Govia.

Whilst they are not responsible for many of the issues on their franchises, Stagecoach comes across as better managed.

Doubtful. Got their hands full with TSGN.

pemma · 21 Jan 2016

pete_m911 said:
Doubtful. Got their hands full with TSGN.

But they lost out in the bidding for Northern, aren't in the running for East Anglia and may lose London Midland next year.

SpacePhoenix · 21 Jan 2016

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35372617

I wonder if that's got a good part of why there's only two bidders. Presumably it'll be all the services operated by the reds (ones using their 455s and 456s).

daikilo · 21 Jan 2016

andrewkeith5 said:
That's EU procurement laws for you. You're not allowed to bid for any public sector supply contract unless you can detail massive experience in successfully delivering previous similar contracts.

I don't think any EU procurement law requires this. I do think that they require a fair and reasonable process.

Rapidash · 21 Jan 2016

Given the fact they'll bid for anything with tracks involved.....First?

Morgsie · 21 Jan 2016

cjmillsnun said:
I hope the other bidder is not Govia.

Whilst they are not responsible for many of the issues on their franchises, Stagecoach comes across as better managed.

I suspect Govia are bidding to retain the West Midlands Franchise

simonw · 21 Jan 2016

daikilo said:
I don't think any EU procurement law requires this. I do think that they require a fair and reasonable process.

Quite.

Goldfish62 · 21 Jan 2016

Matt Taylor said:
Passenger Transport magazine is reporting that Stagecoach is to face only one rival bidder for the SWT franchise, largely due to the increased number of franchises currently under offer but also due to the lack of clarity for future operations of the franchise not least because of Tfl's ambitions but also because of the potential for Crossrail 2. In addition there is the small matter of the large amount of work to be carried out in the Waterloo remodelling project and the uncertainty of the project to wire Basingstoke to Southampton.

Note also that in two weeks Tim Shoveller moves from SWT MD to head of Stagecoach UK Rail operations and will be putting together the bid for the new franchise (I understand).

Unless I missed it I couldn't see any reference to Crossrail 2 in the article, which is hardly surprising given that it's not likely to be complete until 2030 at the earliest.

WatcherZero · 21 Jan 2016

Thought the government was supposed to cancel franchising processes if only two bidders submitted as there wouldnt be enough competition.

cjmillsnun · 21 Jan 2016

WatcherZero said:
Thought the government was supposed to cancel franchising processes if only two bidders submitted as there wouldnt be enough competition.

In that respect there would be a problem. Stagecoach failed to agree on an extension. Either there would have to be renegotiation or DOR would have to step in.

I suspect it would be easier to let the bidding process continue.

Helvellyn · 21 Jan 2016

I wonder if potential bidders were also put off by worries the premiums the DfT will expect will be huge. The fact Stagecoach walked away from a franchise extension to 2019 (that was thought to be a done deal at one point from what we were being told about the Alliance going to 2019) because they said they didn't like the money the DfT wanted might have spooked some companies.

pete_m911 · 21 Jan 2016

Alternatively the government are forced into a humiliating u-turn, extend the franchise until 2019 on a management contract and then re-let as two separate franchises with one going to LOROL?

backontrack · 21 Jan 2016

I have a feeling that Stagecoach will hold this franchise. Govia probably are the other bidder (just a guess), although Keolis, Go-Ahead and National Express may have had a go. I don't know who Trenitalia are, but once the franchise becomes more of a regional one, Arriva may be interested.

TH172341 · 21 Jan 2016

I too feel Stagecoach will likely stay in situ - the premium payments may one of the factors, Stagecoach having delivered on this over the years. Stagecoach have historically performed, so perhaps better with the devil you know. Stagecoach proved they can co-operate in the form of the NR Alliance, so again could be an ideal one to have to manage and organise the passing of certain operations to TfL.

Govia I feel will certainly be focusing efforts to retain the London Midland franchise - of course that's going to involve working with West Midlands Rail to develop a devolved local rail system where no doubt more monotonous white, grey and blue will start creeping onto the trains. I can't see any reason why Govia can't retain it, provided they have a good plan in place for the WCML services.

Simon11 · 21 Jan 2016

My money is that first are bidding on it from listening to the bidding world.

Kite159 · 21 Jan 2016

When will the shortlist be officially announced?

'Only two bidders for SWT Franchise'

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