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WCRC - If it goes under....

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Masboroughlad

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I sincerely hope it won't, but given WCRCs recent troubles, what would happen if they end up going out of business?

Would their rolling stock go on to another company or to the railway scrapyard?
 
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ainsworth74

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Well it depends what happens. I'm lead to believe that WCRC is made up of several different companies so if one bit goes under it might not affect the others.
 

sng7

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From what i have seen from Societies that own Steam Locomotives it would very much surprise me if the operating side of WCRC was the same as the side that owns the locomotives and stock etc just to cover themselves incase something goes wrong.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Like many such instances in the business world, a clean sweep of those convicted or connected with problems followed by a buy out and a nice new ltd company appears.
 

ilkestonian

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I sincerely hope it won't, but given WCRCs recent troubles, what would happen if they end up going out of business?

Would their rolling stock go on to another company or to the railway scrapyard?

As others have said, there is more than one company associated with the rail operations, and they are all ultimately owned by one apparently very strong minded man. And the rail operations are but a part of his "empire", which includes (as I understand it) farming, agricultural supplies, coal and minerals.

What might happen to the stock should WCRC be prevented from operating is entirely down to what that man decides to do.

Looking at the published accounts for the holding company, it would be surprising if a cessation of rail activities were even to cause a pin-prick in the overall profitability of the "group". It might well even cause them to increase!

So whilst an operational ban might cause him to close or liquidate a company or two, the stock is likely to be unaffected, and he might decide to leave it to rot in Carnforth or wherever.

No-one knows what will happen, so although I'm as guilty as anyone else in this thread, I think we are all wasting time speculating.
 

sprinterguy

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As with the likes of Cotswold and Fragonset, a new organisation will emerge, either as a brand new outfit or a rehash of the old one as a new ltd company as Tim R-T-C says, to fill the gap in the market, and the operational stock will likely remain in circulation on the national network under a new owner (that which is not privately owned).

It seems to me, for example, that it was the demise of Fragonset/FM Rail that really gave West Coast their "big break" into the railtour market (particularly in terms of traction provision, although they had been in existence as an operator for a good while beforehand).
 

captainbigun

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It's not that simple though. Any new company would have to seek a new safety certificate and if known persons were involved then I would expect that to hinder.

It's not about the company going under, it's about removal of safety certain.
 

Crawley Ben

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Seeing as how there is no suggestion at all (unless someone know otherwise) that WCRC will be 'going under' is this thread a tad premature maybe?

Thanks

Ben
 

Jonny

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It's not that simple though. Any new company would have to seek a new safety certificate and if known persons were involved then I would expect that to hinder.

It's not about the company going under, it's about removal of safety certain.

It would depend on how far removed they were...

Edit: I meant how far removed the culprits were from the new company.
 

Bevan Price

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In general, if a company goes into receivership or bankruptcy, somebody will be appointed to try and sell any assets, with any proceeds going to the taxman and then to other creditors. They will be bound to try and get the maximum possible revenue from the sales - even if that meant selling some items for scrap. (That will apply only to property owned by a failed company, and not to items owned by others that may be located on premises belonging to the failed company.)

Hopefully WCRC is never going to be in that position.
 

E&W Lucas

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I sincerely hope it won't, but given WCRCs recent troubles, what would happen if they end up going out of business?

The railway network will become a safer place for all of us who work and travel on it.

In comparison, unimportant metal objects will be used by others who will fill the gap left in the charter market.
 

theblackwatch

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It must be remembered that a lot of the rolling stock used by WCRC isn't actually owned by that company. "West Coast Railway Co. Limited, a subsidiary company of Steamtown Railway Museum Limited, operates through the use of locomotives and rolling stock owned by its parent company."

WCRC also undertakes a lot of work for Network Rail, for example hiring out staff for infrastructure trains, or carrying out snowplough duties (as seen on TV not so long ago).
 

Masboroughlad

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They've just been barred from Network Rail again by the ORR. Basically they need to improve.

Has there trip run today? Is it allowed to carry on or would it be halted with immediate effect and passengers booted off.

Not.a good day for WCRC.
 

furnessvale

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They've just been barred from Network Rail again by the ORR. Basically they need to improve.

Has there trip run today? Is it allowed to carry on or would it be halted with immediate effect and passengers booted off.

Reported on Twitter that it ran with ORR inspectors supervising, but I think that is it, no more!
 

sprinterguy

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Has there trip run today? Is it allowed to carry on or would it be halted with immediate effect and passengers booted off.
The prohibition comes into effect from tomorrow, in order "to give WCRC the opportunity to move its stock to an appropriate place."

Interestingly a West Coast 47/57 has turned up at Tyseley today, with a tatty rake of maroon/brown and cream mark 2s.
 
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Masboroughlad

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Thing is, as it keeps happening, business is likely to nosedive as people vote safety first with their wallet and look elsewhere.

Confidence in safety could/ will be a real killer and will take a lot of reputation rebuilding.

What a shame.

Bring back Waterman Railways - that's what I say ☺
 

freelander

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Is this action by ORR done for the court case which is due. As no doubt they will be asked considering the seriousness of the events why they had not done it sooner, they will be wanting too cover their own backs. no matter what WCRC say or do up too the court case it will not satisfy ORR because they want to appear squeaky clean in court. although none of the events directly involved ORR they will asked what actions were taken to make sure it did not happen again.
 
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alexl92

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Bring back Waterman Railways - that's what I say ☺

I'm pinning my hopes on Jeremy Hosking for a chance to ride the S&C behind steam one day. It's something that I've never yet been able to afford either becuase of cost or my availability. With LNWR preparing a full set of MK1s for railtours, fingers crossed we may yet have a new player in the market.
 

talltim

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I'm pinning my hopes on Jeremy Hosking for a chance to ride the S&C behind steam one day. It's something that I've never yet been able to afford either becuase of cost or my availability. With LNWR preparing a full set of MK1s for railtours, fingers crossed we may yet have a new player in the market.
Well, you still might have to wait a while, whoever runs the trains!
 

miami

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They've just been barred from Network Rail again by the ORR. Basically they need to improve.

Has there trip run today? Is it allowed to carry on or would it be halted with immediate effect and passengers booted off.

Not.a good day for WCRC.

Carlisle to Coventry. Pullman restaurant service at Stockport at 2117, platform 1. Fair few pax on board but not full by any rate.
 

Masboroughlad

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Carlisle to Coventry. Pullman restaurant service at Stockport at 2117, platform 1. Fair few pax on board but not full by any rate.

WCR have been posting reduced price seats on said tour for weeks. I even got a text message offering 50% off. Those seem pretty desperate measures to fill a train? Unfortunately, I couldn't go.
 

Iskra

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I'm currently booked on a Steam Dreams tour and one by UK railtours in the next couple of months. Can anyone explain how these two operators are likely to be affected by the current ban, how reliant are they on WCRC?
 

sidmouth

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I'm currently booked on a Steam Dreams tour and one by UK railtours in the next couple of months. Can anyone explain how these two operators are likely to be affected by the current ban, how reliant are they on WCRC?
I note the Steam Dreams on their Facebook website were saying as at 5.07pm on 17/2/16 "We are speaking to other train operators in response to the WCR situation, however, we are hopeful that WCR will be able to meet the requirements of their recent prohibition notice quickly and effectively to allow them to continue operating again. Both Steam Dreams and WCR are committed to running the 2016 Steam Dreams programme as advertised."

PS UK railtours do not use WCRC so would thus be unaffected.

PPS Just received an e-newsletter from UK railtours which says "Yesterday there were reports in the national media of a private Train Operating Company being served a Prohibition Notice because of safety-related irregularities, with criminal prosecutions pending.

We would like to re-assure all our customers that we have no dealings with the operating company in question. Therefore our excursions are not affected by the ban in any way.

The Train Operating Companies we use are:
DB Schenker (a world-wide operator, part of the German national operator Deutsche Bahn)
GB Railfreight (owned by Europorte, a subsidiary of Eurotunnel)
Direct Rail Services (a publicly owned national railway operator)

South West Trains, East Midlands Trains, Southeastern and Chiltern Railways
(all are major Train Operating Companies running scheduled trains in London and elsewhere) "
 
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D1009

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I'm currently booked on a Steam Dreams tour and one by UK railtours in the next couple of months. Can anyone explain how these two operators are likely to be affected by the current ban, how reliant are they on WCRC?
With regard to steam, I believe DB Schenker will be able to operate a few of the trains, but they are limited by the resources they have, and also they cannot operate non air brake fitted steam locomotives. Diesel hauled tours could conceivably be operated by other FOCs, possibly even using WCRC traction.
 

Iskra

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Thank you both for the information.

With regard to steam, I believe DB Schenker will be able to operate a few of the trains, but they are limited by the resources they have, and also they cannot operate non air brake fitted steam locomotives. Diesel hauled tours could conceivably be operated by other FOCs, possibly even using WCRC traction.

The steam dreams loco for my tour is 6201, do you know if it is air-braked?

To be honest, even if the tour goes ahead but with diesel traction I'll still be pretty happy.
 

trubla

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Carlisle to Coventry. Pullman restaurant service at Stockport at 2117, platform 1. Fair few pax on board but not full by any rate.

I was on that train. The staff dealing with the passengers were polite and helpful and kept us informedeven when we had to have an extra stop in Manchester Victoria for a medical emergency for nearly an hour.
No, the trainn wasnt full by any means, ertainly not the standard of first class, cant say about the premier dining section.
 
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