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Wrexham redouble

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Railman

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As they used to say in the X files "The truth is out there" but it wont come from Network rail.
 
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PHILIPE

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So it is, I hadn't realised. There was talk we'd go via the Oxley chord instead but this way is prettier I suppose.


Have noticed on Journey Check many delays this week due to the Single Line occupation and the diverted trains this week. Tonight, I noticed that due to congestion 1V62 17 30 Manchester to Carmarthen diverted from Crewe via Stafford and Telford, so obviously Oxley Chord.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Have noticed on Journey Check many delays this week due to the Single Line occupation and the diverted trains this week. Tonight, I noticed that due to congestion 1V62 17 30 Manchester to Carmarthen diverted from Crewe via Stafford and Telford, so obviously Oxley Chord.

The times don't help, with only a few minutes between southbound departures from Chester to Shrewsbury.
So there's bound to be some waiting around for the line to clear, more if there are northbound delays.
There have been 2 Chester-Shrewsbury services following one another closely.
On top of that, the Chester-Crewe shuttle is still running, making 3tph.
ATW could have canned that for the week and used the Manchester-Cardiff as the shuttle instead.
The diversion actually adds an hour to journey times, so there is a lot of hanging about with 20-minute waits either at Chester northbound or Shrewsbury southbound.
This is so the Manchesters can pick up the next regular path.
 
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craigybagel

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Have noticed on Journey Check many delays this week due to the Single Line occupation and the diverted trains this week. Tonight, I noticed that due to congestion 1V62 17 30 Manchester to Carmarthen diverted from Crewe via Stafford and Telford, so obviously Oxley Chord.

Indeed it went via Oxley. There have been delays every evening as the line just can't cope with 4tph, especially when the Chirk logs is due (as it was when the 1730 would have been in the area) - and that's with the aforementioned long waits at Shrewsbury, Wrexham and Chester. Hopefully we'll see some more diversions via Oxley although not every service can run that way due to route knowledge restrictions.
 

PHILIPE

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Many trains cancelled between Shrewsbury and Chester Saturday due to potential weather related speed restrictions.
Full details can be found on ATW Journey Check Special Notice and click on "here". There's going to be some overcrowding !!!
 
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craigybagel

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Many trains cancelled between Shrewsbury and Chester Saturday due to potential weather related speed restrictions.
Full details can be found on ATW Journey Check Special Notice and click on "here". There's going to be some overcrowding !!!

You can bet that sooner or later there'll be a 50mph blanket speed restriction in North Wales. Given how much of a struggle it's been to keep trains on time through Wrexham this week even without disruption it seems prudent.

As the website says, there is already a worry about whether Chirk will flood or not - which will really throw a spanner in the works.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And 30 minutes later, sure enough NR have imposed a 50 mph restriction west of Llandudno Junction, till 8am tomorrow.
 

craigybagel

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The black wrapping on one of the new speed boards came off in the strong winds today - proving that the plan for the line from Shrewsbury to Gobowen is to go up to 90!
 

krus_aragon

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The black wrapping on one of the new speed boards came off in the strong winds today - proving that the plan for the line from Shrewsbury to Gobowen is to go up to 90!

And the winds have also been going up to 90! :P

All jesting aside, it's nice to get some unexpected confirmation of the upgrades.
 

craigybagel

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Don't get to excited, I doubt it'll be ready anytime this year. Besides its 90 from Whittington to Shrewsbury.

To be honest I'd assumed they'd given up on it altogether, so it did make me smile to see the sign - the one uncovered is adjacent to (but obviously facing the opposite direction to) the distant for Shrewsbury. And yes I know it's not the full length of the line, not much point doing the rest with such close together stops and the 60mph limit on Cefn Mawr viaduct.
 

The Informer

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To be honest I'd assumed they'd given up on it altogether, so it did make me smile to see the sign - the one uncovered is adjacent to (but obviously facing the opposite direction to) the distant for Shrewsbury. And yes I know it's not the full length of the line, not much point doing the rest with such close together stops and the 60mph limit on Cefn Mawr viaduct.

Gets windy on top of that embankment at Hencott :D
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Waiting for resources to commission the signalling in Chester PSB I think.
The physical work along the route is all done I believe, except possibly at the level crossings.
 

Gareth Marston

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The DDA footbridge at Machynlleth will have its footbridge open on 2nd April and UP trains will start using the UP platform again though no date on the elevators so we're still back to the situation pre works starting with no end date after all the disruption just like the Wrexham redouble!
 

The Informer

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The DDA footbridge at Machynlleth will have its footbridge open on 2nd April and UP trains will start using the UP platform again though no date on the elevators so we're still back to the situation pre works starting with no end date after all the disruption just like the Wrexham redouble!

Apparently the old bridge is rumoured to be off elsewhere???
 

headshot119

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The DDA footbridge at Machynlleth will have its footbridge open on 2nd April and UP trains will start using the UP platform again though no date on the elevators so we're still back to the situation pre works starting with no end date after all the disruption just like the Wrexham redouble!

You mean like the lift they put in for platform 4 at Wrexham General that was never wired into the national grid so it can't be used anymore after the local residents complained about the noise from the diesel generator?
 

Gareth Marston

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Apparently the old bridge is rumoured to be off elsewhere???

Heritage sector maybe?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You mean like the lift they put in for platform 4 at Wrexham General that was never wired into the national grid so it can't be used anymore after the local residents complained about the noise from the diesel generator?

Ill watch out for someone from Balfour Beatty holding a plug with no socket to put it into:p
 

Gareth Marston

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Some more rumblings about Wrexham redoubles failings with suggestion that Welsh Government tried to get Arriva North interested in extending Leeds to Chester Northern Connect service to Wrexham.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/getting-train-manchester-leeds-could-11130771

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Arriva Trains Wales

Why getting a train to Manchester and Leeds could prove a problem for Wrexham travellers

16:22, 3 Apr 2016
Updated 16:22, 3 Apr 2016
By Rhodri Clark

That's despite £44m of taxpayers' cash being invested in new track

63 shares Comments

Why getting a train to Manchester and Leeds could prove a problem for Wrexham travellers

The biggest town in North Wales has been denied through trains to Manchester and Leeds, despite major investment by Welsh taxpayers in new infrastructure for additional rail services.

The new Arriva Rail North franchise, which began on Friday, will introduce a regular express service between Leeds and Chester via Manchester and Warrington.
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According to an industry source, when the new franchise was being formulated, the Department for Transport asked the Welsh Government whether the service should continue from Chester to terminate at Wrexham , but the Welsh Government declined.

However, the Welsh Government’s version of events is that the DfT rejected the idea because of inadequate capacity for the extra service on the railway between Chester and Wrexham.

Last year, Network Rail installed a second track between Rossett and the outskirts of Chester, funded by £44m from the Welsh Government.
There are concerns on both sides of the border

At the launch ceremony, ministers said the new track would allow hourly trains to run between North and South Wales.
North Wales to South Wales traffic accounts for just 3 % of North Wales rail use but whole redouble is on premise an hourly service from north to south is needed.
 

Rhydgaled

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Some more rumblings about Wrexham redoubles failings with suggestion that Welsh Government tried to get Arriva North interested in extending Leeds to Chester Northern Connect service to Wrexham.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/getting-train-manchester-leeds-could-11130771


North Wales to South Wales traffic accounts for just 3 % of North Wales rail use but whole redouble is on premise an hourly service from north to south is needed.
Well, if the Welsh Government truely did try to get the new Northern to extend their Manchester-Chester service to Wrexham then maybe WAG have finally twigged that 0.5tph Holyhead-Cardiff is excessive and north Wales needs better links with England instead. The quoted article however paints a rather more confused picture, and doesn't mention the other issue which is north Wales electrification. Apparently the Welsh Government recently submitted a business case for this, but I can't find any details of what the case entails (eg. would it only be Euston services using the wires from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction?)

An interesting suggestion though that Merseytravel might have be willing to fund a new bridge for the full redouble, on that logic wouldn't it make more sense if you were to extend Northern's service to extend it to Llandudno? Then the W&B franchise services would become Holyhead-Manchester and Cardiff-Liverpool via the Halton curve?
 

notlob.divad

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Well, if the Welsh Government truely did try to get the new Northern to extend their Manchester-Chester service to Wrexham then maybe WAG have finally twigged that 0.5tph Holyhead-Cardiff is excessive and north Wales needs better links with England instead. The quoted article however paints a rather more confused picture, and doesn't mention the other issue which is north Wales electrification. Apparently the Welsh Government recently submitted a business case for this, but I can't find any details of what the case entails (eg. would it only be Euston services using the wires from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction?)

An interesting suggestion though that Merseytravel might have be willing to fund a new bridge for the full redouble, on that logic wouldn't it make more sense if you were to extend Northern's service to extend it to Llandudno? Then the W&B franchise services would become Holyhead-Manchester and Cardiff-Liverpool via the Halton curve?

But that still wouldn't connect Wrexham with Manchester.
Holyhead to Manchester and Cardiff to Liverpool is sensible,
But then you should do Llandudno to Liverpool (extension of the proposed Liverpool-Chester stopper)
Extend the Chester Connect Service to Wrexham.
If the connections at Chester are well timed, I am sure people could be convinced of the economic benefits.

However, I think there is more to it than that. I read that the services franchised by the Welsh government were going to be restricted only to services that started and finished within Wales. Under that I can see why the Welsh Assembly would be desperate to keep a through N-S service
 
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Philip Phlopp

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Well, if the Welsh Government truely did try to get the new Northern to extend their Manchester-Chester service to Wrexham then maybe WAG have finally twigged that 0.5tph Holyhead-Cardiff is excessive and north Wales needs better links with England instead. The quoted article however paints a rather more confused picture, and doesn't mention the other issue which is north Wales electrification. Apparently the Welsh Government recently submitted a business case for this, but I can't find any details of what the case entails (eg. would it only be Euston services using the wires from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction?)

An interesting suggestion though that Merseytravel might have be willing to fund a new bridge for the full redouble, on that logic wouldn't it make more sense if you were to extend Northern's service to extend it to Llandudno? Then the W&B franchise services would become Holyhead-Manchester and Cardiff-Liverpool via the Halton curve?

North Wales electrification is, I suspect, playing a bit part in the services from Leeds to Chester or Wrexham.

DfT wants to electrify Crewe to Chester, it has an excellent business case (unsurprisingly, given the number of services which use or terminate at Chester). Wales wants to electrify the entire route, which despite enormous fudging by WAG, is still below 1.0 for its BCR.

The result is nobody can agree on compensation or an appropriate distribution of costs, and it's a bit of a mess, really.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Where it gets Machiavellian (or Byzantine?) is that the WG wouldn't want an extra Northern Chester-Wrexham service denying them a path going to Cardiff.

I see we have "Welsh taxpayers' money" quoted for the redoubling.
Strictly, its UK money allocated to WG to spend in/for Wales.
We all paid for it, the money wasn't collected in Wales.
Just like the Liverpool City Region money isn't from Liverpool taxpayers.
 

Gareth Marston

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Well, if the Welsh Government truely did try to get the new Northern to extend their Manchester-Chester service to Wrexham then maybe WAG have finally twigged that 0.5tph Holyhead-Cardiff is excessive and north Wales needs better links with England instead. The quoted article however paints a rather more confused picture, and doesn't mention the other issue which is north Wales electrification. Apparently the Welsh Government recently submitted a business case for this, but I can't find any details of what the case entails (eg. would it only be Euston services using the wires from Holyhead to Llandudno Junction?)

An interesting suggestion though that Merseytravel might have be willing to fund a new bridge for the full redouble, on that logic wouldn't it make more sense if you were to extend Northern's service to extend it to Llandudno? Then the W&B franchise services would become Holyhead-Manchester and Cardiff-Liverpool via the Halton curve?

Indeed "confused" poorly specified with a misguided notion of what rail services should be provided combined with NR shamble delivery. Looks like North East Wales has missed the boat because of a leftover policy from the Plaid/ Coalition that finished in 2011 but no one in Cardiff could engage their brain about what the area really needed till it was too late.
 

snowball

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North Wales electrification is, I suspect, playing a bit part in the services from Leeds to Chester or Wrexham.

DfT wants to electrify Crewe to Chester, it has an excellent business case (unsurprisingly, given the number of services which use or terminate at Chester). Wales wants to electrify the entire route, which despite enormous fudging by WAG, is still below 1.0 for its BCR.

The result is nobody can agree on compensation or an appropriate distribution of costs, and it's a bit of a mess, really.

A recent press release on the WAG website says an Outline Business Case has just been submitted by WAG to DfT, but doesn't include a link to its text or say what the BCR is:

http://gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2016/11064827/?lang=en
 

Sox

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Some more rumblings about Wrexham redoubles failings with suggestion that Welsh Government tried to get Arriva North interested in extending Leeds to Chester Northern Connect service to Wrexham.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/getting-train-manchester-leeds-could-11130771

The new Arriva Rail North franchise, which began on Friday, will introduce a regular express service between Leeds and Chester via Manchester and Warrington.

Anyone know what the running arrangements are for this new service (had a quick look on Rail Journey Planner and couldn't find any evidence of a direct service between Chester and Leeds)?

Arriva themselves seem fairly coy about the matter (unless Chester is regarded as a so called "regional hubs"):

http://www.arriva.co.uk/media/news/2016/01-04-2016

More services and faster journeys: A 12 per cent increase in the number of services by 2019 – giving passengers greater choice with over 2,000 more services each week. Beginning in December 2017, new timetables will also provide 100 new through journey opportunities across Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Sheffield and other regional hubs.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Anyone know what the running arrangements are for this new service (had a quick look on Rail Journey Planner and couldn't find any evidence of a direct service between Chester and Leeds)?
Arriva themselves seem fairly coy about the matter (unless Chester is regarded as a so called "regional hubs"):

Chester-Leeds doesn't start until December 2017 (after the Ordsall Chord work is complete).
In December 2019 it is supposed to become a Northern Connect services (after Northern's new trains start arriving).
Though there is no certainty it will be run by new trains, maybe refurbished existing ones.
Stopping patterns are rather vague, but one of the Chester-Warrington-Manchester services should be semi-fast.

While the new service is definite, Chester does not figure in the "Northern Powerhouse" guff, and sometimes you get the impression the Chester destination is somewhere handy to send an extra service through Victoria rather than a strategic decision.
Timings via the Calder Valley route are fairly certainly going to be slower than changing to TPE at Victoria.
It is also to replace the current calls at Warrington Central by TPE (the Liverpool-Scarborough service will switch to running via Newton-le-Willows and Victoria).
Then there's the Halton Curve service to Liverpool to fit in from 2018 on the same route out of Chester.
 
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