Arriva win new London Overground contract

It has been announced that TfL have awarded the new contract for the London Overground concession to Arriva DB (Arriva Rail London).

This from the TfL press release.

Transport for London (TfL) has today announced that it intends to award the new London Overground operator contract to Arriva Rail London Limited. The £1.5 billion contract will cover seven and a half years with an option to extend for up to two additional years.

Arriva will take over from existing operator LOROL in November 2016, and will support TfL in delivering further improvements for customers on the already hugely popular network. These will include modernised stations and more frequent services, the first of which will be on the North London line. New trains will also be introduced in 2018, transforming journeys on London Overground routes out of Liverpool Street and on the Gospel Oak to Barking line.

Under the new concession, customers on some routes will benefit from extended operating hours, and new services will be introduced on some routes on Boxing Day. Arriva will also be expected to deliver sustained improvements in performance levels, which have improved hugely since TfL took responsibility for London Overground routes in 2007. To support this, new incentives have been incorporated into the new contract including financially penalising Arriva should incidents caused by Network Rail, train and freight operators impact on London Overground services. Along with the tightening of the rail industry standard measurement for punctuality for commuter services to three minutes within the scheduled arrival time. These measures are being implemented to encourage closer working with Network Rail and Bombardier to continue to improve reliability and provide high quality services for customers.

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Which makes Arriva the TOC of the moment, after winning Northern in December (after a long string of losing bids elsewhere).
Funny how the wheel turns.
In the first franchise round, National Express was the clear winner.
Then came the FirstGroup tidal wave, then a spurt from GoVia, and now Arriva.
Notably GoVia lost this LO bid (and Northern), and so did Arriva's current LO partners MTR.
MTR of course, has Crossrail/Elizabeth, so still a major player.
It's difficult to judge how valuable a TfL concession is to the owner, compared to a full DfT TOC.
The risks are significantly less (taken by TfL), but the returns are probably less too.
Nevertheless, Arriva (and DB) must be pleased, and it improves the job prospects of its staff over the next decade.
Arriva also should be able to offer some useful network-wide tickets.

A good achievement by Arriva on it's own, against significant competition. Most definitely a major player in the UK Rail industry.

Arriva also should be able to offer some useful network-wide tickets.

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I don't think that's the way Tfl ticketing works

gordonthemoron said:

I don't think that's the way Tfl ticketing works

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it does mean free travel for arriva staff on lo operated services and vice versa though.

Arriva were crap when they ran Merseyrail. I seem to think their record in Wales isn't much better. Are people generally hopeful about this?

David Emmott said:

Arriva were crap when they ran Merseyrail. I seem to think their record in Wales isn't much better. Are people generally hopeful about this?

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I'm afraid that I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't remember Arriva running Merseyrail but I don't think they have brought many (if any) improvements to the Cross Country franchise and the Wales one. I'm not very hopeful at how they will do with the LO franchise either. This is just my opinion and I don't mean to cause any offence to anyone.

David Emmott said:

Arriva were crap when they ran Merseyrail. I seem to think their record in Wales isn't much better. Are people generally hopeful about this?

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That was more than a decade ago. They are better than that.
In case you have forgotten, they run Chiltern and Cross Country too, own what was LNWR at Crewe, and have produced some very good refurbs (158, 175, Mk3).
I find ATW staff in the north to be the friendliest on the network.

fishquinn said:

I'm not very hopeful at how they will do with the LO franchise either.

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Except that its not a franchise.
"TfL have awarded the new contract" is the significant wording.
Lucky London, if Arriva fail to deliver they can be sued for the cost of paying someone else to do it to the contract (unless they go bankrupt to avoid the costs.) Hopefully the contract/the company will produce the desired results

Much like many of the TOC's there are now examples of successful franchises/contracts and examples of those that are less so. I must admit my first thought when they were awarded the northern franchise was the recollection of memories of the final days of Arriva Trains Northern when there seemed to be quite some industrial unrest and poor performance. I am guessing that the TFL contract is a management contract similar in nature to the Manchester Metrolink contract between TFGM and RATP?

matt_world2004 said:

it does mean free travel for arriva staff on lo operated services and vice versa though.

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We already do

Phew, I swore in the Evening Standard tonight it said Abellio had won it!

To get back to the TfL statement, Arriva can be financially penalised if ''incidents caused by Network Rail, freight and train operators impact on London Overground operations'' !!!
Why would Arriva sign up to that unless they know it's a load of hot air?

Busaholic said:

To get back to the TfL statement, Arriva can be financially penalised if ''incidents caused by Network Rail, freight and train operators impact on London Overground operations'' !!!
Why would Arriva sign up to that unless they know it's a load of hot air?

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They will sign up and price it into their bid. It's only 10% of what the operators originally causing the problem would be penalised.

I've long thought that how good or otherwise a franchise is doesn't have much to do with which group runs it. I suspect the most significant factors are, in descending order of importance:

- whether it got a viable level of premium/subsidy or one that would bleed it dry
- whether the public sponsors of the franchise actively monitor and intervene if necessary (TfL, Transport Scotland) or leave it to get on with it until things have gone totally pear-shaped (DfT)
- quality of the senior management

David Emmott said:

Arriva were crap when they ran Merseyrail. I seem to think their record in Wales isn't much better. Are people generally hopeful about this?

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Well LOROL, which is 50% Arriva, have done a decent enough job with the first London Overground contract. Of course what we don't know is who put what resource and experience into which elements of the LOROL company. MTR clearly have a lot of experience from Hong Kong and China and use a lot of good practice. However I think they may be finding running the Shenfield line a tad more challenging than they might have expected given the litany of problems recently.

What LOROL have managed to do pretty well is handle change. They've brought in new rolling stock, new timetables, coped with a lot of station refurb work on the North London Railways bit (what you might call old Overground). I think they (and TfL) were wrong footed when they took over parts of West Anglia from Abellio GA. Even after 10 months there are still short forms in the peak although we seem (touch wood) to be past the worst of Network Rail's nightmare asset problems. There was a load of complaint from passengers over that and quite right too. It is telling that even now the rolling stock issues aren't fixed but I think there are pressures at Ilford depot in handling the demands of three operators (LOROL, AGA, MTR).

I was not terribly shocked to hear Arriva had won the new contract. The saving grace is that Arriva don't have much investment spend to organise or handle. TfL fund that and a lot of it is already underway so contracts etc will simply transfer across. What Arriva have to do is cope with burgeoning demand and handle the moves to new timetables, bring in new trains and introduce electric services on the GOBLIN. They also have to avoid their staff going on strike and not "upset" other TOCs and FOCs they have to work alongside. Oh and they have to not "fail" in any way that harms the Overground brand and p*sses off the new Mayor. There is a lot riding on this next contract term in the context of TfL working towards a takeover of more routes south of the Thames from 2018 onwards.

I think I'd have been more concerned if the contract had gone to Go Ahead or Metroline to be honest. Go Ahead because I think they are horribly overstretched on TSGN and Metroline because they'd be a new entrant to the UK market (even acknowledging their MRT operating experience in Singapore). The MRT has hardly been a paragon of virtue on the older lines in recent years with everyone seemingly caught out by pretty normal asset condition issues that a competent infrastructure manager would have understood, anticipated and dealt with in advance of serious failures.

Robertj21a said:

A good achievement by Arriva on it's own, against significant competition. Most definitely a major player in the UK Rail industry.

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Isn't LOROL a part of the DB group anyway? If so it's just a brand change and nothing else.
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craigybagel said:

We already do

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Indeed, as posted above, it's just a brand change

TDK said:

Isn't LOROL a part of the DB group anyway? If so it's just a brand change and nothing else.

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LOROL is 50-50 Arriva (was Laing Rail like Chiltern) and MTR of Hong Kong.
It's more like Northern going from Abellio/Serco to Arriva.
The brand, owned by TfL, actually will not change, but the TOC management certainly will.

Don't forget Arriva of 15 years or so ago is effectively a totally different entity today - they may as well be different companies. They've gone from being a bus company with a rail arm to being the foreign branding for DB's non German passenger rail operations who also happen to run buses.

LowLevel said:

Don't forget Arriva of 15 years or so ago is effectively a totally different entity today - they may as well be different companies. They've gone from being a bus company with a rail arm to being the foreign branding for DB's non German passenger rail operations who also happen to run buses.

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British Bus company and then Cowie Group.

fishquinn said:

I'm afraid that I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't remember Arriva running Merseyrail but I don't think they have brought many (if any) improvements to the Cross Country franchise and the Wales one. I'm not very hopeful at how they will do with the LO franchise either. This is just my opinion and I don't mean to cause any offence to anyone.

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I remember Arriva running Merseyrail they were awful at running it!

Does anyone know more about the longer trains and especially the more frequent services planned? Where will they run?

ScouserGirl said:

I remember Arriva running Merseyrail they were awful at running it!

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Arriva only had the Merseyrail franchise for 3 years 2000-3.
Before that it was MTL (formerly the bus arm of Merseytravel), who also ran the North Eastern franchise (Northern Spirit).
MTL was dire, and were on the verge of being stripped of their franchises when they sold out to Arriva.

Arriva didn't have much of a rail management team then, but having acquired ATW, XC, Chiltern, and 50% of LO they now have a full UK rail management structure (Arriva UK Trains).
They also have a significant rail footprint on the continent.

Merseyrail has also benefited from significant NR infrastructure upgrades since then, especially the signalling and general system reliability, and more recently the central stations.

LNW-GW Joint said:

Arriva only had the Merseyrail franchise for 3 years 2000-3.
Before that it was MTL (formerly the bus arm of Merseytravel), who also ran the North Eastern franchise (Northern Spirit).
MTL was dire, and were on the verge of being stripped of their franchises when they sold out to Arriva.

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Indeed. I think some people might be confusing the earlier MTL era (which was truly awful) with Arriva's short run which followed.

There were improvements under Arriva, including gradually better punctuality and the reinstatement of some previously culled six car workings. The £32.5 refurbishment specification was drawn up under Arriva's tenure alongside Angel Trains and Merseytravel. IIRC Arriva had an influence over the decision to reinstate six 508s which had been in long-term storage as part of the refurbishment programme, increasing the fleet from 53 units to 59. They also paid a lot more attention to cleanliness than MTL ever did, introducing external repaints as part of scheduled overhaul work.

Arriva were far from perfect when they had the Merseyrail franchise (as indeed Serco-Abellio are now) but they were a country mile ahead of MTL.

Busaholic said:

To get back to the TfL statement, Arriva can be financially penalised if ''incidents caused by Network Rail, freight and train operators impact on London Overground operations'' !!!
Why would Arriva sign up to that unless they know it's a load of hot air?

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It's to make Arriva run the trains on time and recover the service quicker and not milk delay payments when it's not Arriva's delay.

LowLevel said:

Don't forget Arriva of 15 years or so ago is effectively a totally different entity today - they may as well be different companies. They've gone from being a bus company with a rail arm to being the foreign branding for DB's non German passenger rail operations who also happen to run buses.

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Indeed there isn't a company called Arriva anymore it was bought out by DB it is just a DB brand name, there are no Arriva stocks and shares, it isn't a company.

The same goes for LOROL, Chiltern, Tyne and Wear Metro, Arriva Trans Wales, Cross Country and soon to be Arriva Northern they are all brand names and all are a part of DB! The reason why DB are winning so many franchises is due to the bottomless pit of money they can throw into the equation basically pricing everyone else out.

TDK said:

Indeed there isn't a company called Arriva anymore it was bought out by DB it is just a DB brand name, there are no Arriva stocks and shares, it isn't a company.
The same goes for LOROL, Chiltern, Tyne and Wear Metro, Arriva Trans Wales, Cross Country and soon to be Arriva Northern they are all brand names and all are a part of DB! The reason why DB are winning so many franchises is due to the bottomless pit of money they can throw into the equation basically pricing everyone else out.

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As far as I am aware Arriva is a wholly-owned subsidiary of DB, but is still a separate commercial division/entity and has never been "integrated" into DB.
Among other things, DB is considering selling all or part of Arriva to concentrate on its troubled German operations, so it will need to remain commercially separate.
Arriva is also much more than its UK operations, with bus/rail interests across Europe (outside Germany).
I know you didn't say so, but the notion often portrayed that the German government sits behind Arriva pulling the strings is nonsense.
If anything, they want DB to get rid of foreign adventures to concentrate on its day job in Germany.

Apart from anything else, Arriva is based in Sunderland and has an overwhelmingly British management.
DB stands behind Arriva but if anything the influence has been the other way.
There has been no blank cheque for Arriva to spend in the UK, and they certainly don't throw a "bottomless pot of money" into franchise bids to undercut everybody else.
They lost all their bids after DB took them over, until Northern.

If you want "just a brand", think of Vauxhall, which is just a British name on a US/German company operating in the UK.

plcd1 said:

Well LOROL, which is 50% Arriva, have done a decent enough job with the first London Overground contract....

I think I'd have been more concerned if the contract had gone to Go Ahead or Metroline to be honest. Go Ahead because I think they are horribly overstretched on TSGN and Metroline because they'd be a new entrant to the UK market (even acknowledging their MRT operating experience in Singapore). The MRT has hardly been a paragon of virtue on the older lines in recent years with everyone seemingly caught out by pretty normal asset condition issues that a competent infrastructure manager would have understood, anticipated and dealt with in advance of serious failures.

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That's true, Metroline have too much of a stranglehold on the London bus market (most of it gifted to them when First London threw in the towel), and of late Arriva were losing out in the bus tenders, but they are beginning to win routes whilst also dealing with a restructure of their London business.

It will still be the same Overground branded trains, uniforms, stations etc so Joe Public won't see any sort of real change. I'd like to see how things go when the new trains out of Liverpool Street replace the 315's and 317's there at the moment

TDK said:

Indeed there isn't a company called Arriva anymore it was bought out by DB it is just a DB brand name, there are no Arriva stocks and shares, it isn't a company.

The same goes for LOROL, Chiltern, Tyne and Wear Metro, Arriva Trans Wales, Cross Country and soon to be Arriva Northern they are all brand names and all are a part of DB! The reason why DB are winning so many franchises is due to the bottomless pit of money they can throw into the equation basically pricing everyone else out.

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Arriva do indeed have all the rail operations you mention. These include 3 linking Manchester & Stockport, namely Northern, Wales & CrossCountry.

Whereas LOROL was joint Arriva & MRT, now LOROL will be Arriva and CrossRail aka The Elizabeth Line MRT.

450.emu said:

That's true, Metroline have too much of a stranglehold on the London bus market (most of it gifted to them when First London threw in the towel), and of late Arriva were losing out in the bus tenders, but they are beginning to win routes whilst also dealing with a restructure of their London business.

It will still be the same Overground branded trains, uniforms, stations etc so Joe Public won't see any sort of real change. I'd like to see how things go when the new trains out of Liverpool Street replace the 315's and 317's there at the moment

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Metroline also expanded in 1998 by purchasing MTL London Northern, and a handful of independents.

In about 4 hours time LOROL will officially hand over to Arriva Rail London.

The last LOROL train will be the 0103 Liverpool Street - Chingford arr 0129

The first ARL train will be the 0640 Chingford - Liverpool Street arr 0706

And nobody will notice.

What is the point?


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