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WCRC banned from running trains on the mainline from 18th Feb 2016 now rescinded
- Thread starter Kristofferson
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Deepgreen
Established Member
CCTV camera lens constantly misted up with steam in the cab...
No reason why it should be - lenses mist up when they are colder than the air around them. I'm sure it will be lovely and toasty warm in the corner of the cab.
in-cab CCTV is an interesting move- do any regular passenger or freight fleets have it? I can't imagine it being popular in a unionised workforce. For example, I know that Cemex have in-cab cameras on their tipper trucks and articulated lorries, but not their Cement fleet, as that has a highly unionised workforce who vehemently opposed the move (they were OK though with multiple exterior cameras)
BRX
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Well, who would want to have a camera pointing at them for the majority of their working day, every day? I wouldn't. I don't think it's unreasonable for the unions to object.
Operating a steam engine on the main line is a bit of a special case though, and not an every-day job so I can see a justification for it there.
Operating a steam engine on the main line is a bit of a special case though, and not an every-day job so I can see a justification for it there.
D1009
Established Member
Keeping the discussion hypothetical, I'd have thought ASLEF would have supported all their members, irrespective of their contract of employment.
No. Aslef are against it and it is a step too far for normal, professional train drivers to allow. If any TOC even attempts to introduce in cab cctv monitoring then there will be alot of misery for passengers during the strike action that would almost certainly occur.
As someone else mentioned above, would most people be happy with not one, but most likely two cctv cameras watching your every move whilst carrying out your job? On train monitoring systems are very in depth and provide all he details management need to carry out incident investigation and Driver assessments.
Cctv may be the only way for West Coast to keep their operating license and I imagine most of their crews will grudgingly agree to work under this new system in order to keep on playing at train drivers, when they really should be enjoying their retirement down the pub!
Do steam locos have these systems, and if they don't how practical would it be to have them fitted?
D1009
Established Member
Is the CCTV idea there because the OTMR can't record the level of data required on a steam loco compared with more modern traction?
News presenters?
Not only that, but it's a remedial action based on previous bad behaviour of the company. Akin to wearing an ankle tag.
There should also be a CCTV camera pointing in the CEO's office and boardroom too.
Are they pointing at the driver though? Or just out the window?
As mentioned above, many customer facing jobs, including guards, have CCTV pointing at them for most of their day.
They do, yes.
It would appear so. In the RAIB report about Wooton Basset, the action of opening the TPWS isolation valve was inferred from the behaviour of the recorded parts of the system, it was not recorded directly.
That was what I thought - they have recorders but they don't record nearly as many parameters as with modern stock. Hence CCTV as an easy workaround.
90019
Established Member
Yes - it's pretty much the norm in the bus industry nowadays, in my experience.
D1009
Established Member
We're not supposed to be mentioning the Wootton Bassett incident at the moment.
I think referring to information in the public domain - such as the RAIB report - is okay.
D1009
Established Member
So if that is the case, as ASLEF has accepted OTMR, they shouldn't have a problem with CCTV being fitted to steam locos?
That is between the traincrew, the unions and WCRC.
bramling
Veteran Member
I'd agree in-cab CCTV for normal trains is a step too far. I'm more keen on forward-facing CCTV however, I think there are benefits to this, and certainly in terms of investigations depending on the circumstances it's just as likely to support a driver as it is to drop them in it.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Aviation is slowly moving towards providing cockpit cameras linked to something comparable to the existing data recorders, so that investigators can see what the crew saw and did before an accident as well as what they can already infer from the voice and data recorders. The most recent AAIB report also recommends saloon cameras as an aid to understanding why some passengers survived and others didn't during a helicopter crash into the sea.
CharlieSpotted
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Would like some clarification from mods on this - as I had previously posted public domain information, and a warning not to discuss the case followed shortly thereafter.
Perhaps only the RAIB could be permitted to access the footage?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Facts are okay the problem is that people will, invariably, end up making suppositions or assumptions or posting theory's and that's where the problems start.
Deepgreen
Established Member
I know - it was a light-hearted/non-scientific comment.
Ah, okay. Gotcha.
That was the original plan for the OTDR but now it is used as an assessment tool
This is perhaps something that should be covered by general workplace guidelines - not just specific agreements on trains or planes. Cameras are turning up all over the place.
I don't think anybody really has an issue with recordings being used in the event of a safety or security incident.
So it just needs some conventions set as to how long recorders should loop (or how long recordings are kept) - and under what circumstances they can be accessed without the subject's explicit permission.
There should be no need for any third party such as a union rep to be present if it is being accessed according to the rules where there has been a clear breach of safety or security. The role of the union or other third parties comes after that should any action be likely.
The view from most drivers, including myself, is that in cab cctv becomes another tool for management to discipline drivers with. It also implies that the management do not have trust in their drivers. Let's be honest, no driver manager is going to use it for anything else other than try to catch drivers out. OTMR downloads were originally said to be used for investigation of incidents only. Nowadays it's used for assessment purposes and random downloads are carried out in the hope of catching someone out.
With reference to guards above. The cctv is NOT pointing at them all day. Internal cctv is for security and crime prevention purposes. But again, is used by management to discipline staff for failing to have a name badge or tie on etc etc.
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