Abellio Scotrail - 1 year on

Highland37 · 11 Apr 2016

As a passenger from Inverness, it has been worse but I will give them the benefit of the doubt right now.

It is no longer possible to book a bike onto a train through the website - worse.

Smart ticketing has not been introduced despite the propoganda. I regularly travel with large groups and the numbers of tickets is pretty stupid. Also, seat reservations cannot be made at the same time if you are booking 13 weeks in advance.

The service itself is pretty similar I think but I am looking forward to the HSTs.

RailUK Forums

scotsman · 11 Apr 2016

scotraildriver said:
Don't believe everything you hear! I don't want to discuss the proposal on a public forum but it wasn't unexpected, and hasn't been universally condemned as you might imagine. Indeed the RMT reps think it is a reasonable place to start discussions. It is an initial starting point with Abellio stating they wish to come to agreement without industrial action. Very much in its infancy at the moment.

Fair enough, just saying what I'd heard. Wasn't it in the Evening News? Anyway, better not talking about it online - Chinese whispers doesn't help anyone.

kkong · 11 Apr 2016

ScotTrains said:
The £7.50 fare was announced by Abellio at the time they won the ScotRail franchise. Are they still to be added? I've struggled to find any ScotRail advance 1st fares yet.

I posted a £10 First Advance ticket I bought a few weeks ago in the "New ticket design launched" thread.

I'm not sure there will be a £7.50 First Advance fare. I see it in the Abellio press release, but it's not mentioned in the Franchise Agreement.

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All Line Rover said:
Is that something specified by a devolved body?

Yes, it is a Committed Obligation in the ScotRail franchise agreement.

Butts · 11 Apr 2016

The worst thing they have done is to ban Smoking on Open Platforms without to my knowledge any advanced warning or notification. However as this is largely ignored and not enforced by staff it's not as bad as it could be.

Club 50 is quite good as they have regular offers , free coffees and 20% off out of hours tickets. I have done "Thurso" and "Kyle" on £16 specials.

thealexweb · 11 Apr 2016

Butts said:
The worst thing they have done is to ban Smoking on Open Platforms without to my knowledge any advanced warning or notification. However as this is largely ignored and not enforced by staff it's not as bad as it could be.

Considering lung cancer is one the most common forms of death in Scotland I could not disagree with you more. It does not matter if one passenger believes a particular platform is sufficiently open or not, smoking has no place at all in public places. The total ban has been in place for some time now so please try to respect it.

Butts · 11 Apr 2016

thealexweb said:
Considering lung cancer is one the most common forms of death in Scotland I could not disagree with you more. It does not matter if one passenger believes a particular platform is sufficiently open or not, smoking has no place at all in public places. The total ban has been in place for some time now so please try to respect it.

Even if you disagree with smoking in "Public Places" surely some advance warning would have been nice :idea:

How do you cope walking down the street ?

me123 · 11 Apr 2016

Butts said:
How do you cope walking down the street ?

May I suggest...

[youtube]z7dLlzUE2JY[/youtube]

thealexweb · 11 Apr 2016

Butts said:
Even if you disagree with smoking in "Public Places" surely some advance warning would have been nice

How do you cope walking down the street ?

I imagine Abellio provided some prior notice when it commenced mobilisation for the Scotrail franchise. Regardless, considering all they are asking is for passengers to not smoke at all on station / 'their' property advance notice is hardly needed.

I 'cope' walking down the street but I do feel deeply sorry for smokers. Just because its happening outside it does not make it magically okay for their health and the health of others around them.

Hibernian1 · 13 Apr 2016

scotsman said:
Fair enough, just saying what I'd heard. Wasn't it in the Evening News? Anyway, better not talking about it online - Chinese whispers doesn't help anyone.

scotraildriver said:
Don't believe everything you hear! I don't want to discuss the proposal on a public forum but it wasn't unexpected, and hasn't been universally condemned as you might imagine. Indeed the RMT reps think it is a reasonable place to start discussions. It is an initial starting point with Abellio stating they wish to come to agreement without industrial action. Very much in its infancy at the moment.

Don't know where you get your information but don't know any guards who are happy with the announcement and the unions are looking to reject all proposals for dco

170401 · 14 Apr 2016

Hibernian1 said:
Don't know where you get your information but don't know any guards who are happy with the announcement and the unions are looking to reject all proposals for dco

A few individuals initially appeared to have their own agenda and were looking out for their own interests. Maybe thats where they got their information from?

The official line from both the RMT and ASLEF are that they are 100% opposed to DOO/DCO with no room for negotiation.

Butts · 24 May 2016

Welcome to Abellio aka Ryanair ....latest wheeze on my last two journeys they have started flogging Plusbus over the tannoy as we approach Edinburgh.

Talking of wheezing they have finally started making announcements about the smoking restrictions on "open platforms" one year after they banned it. At least that is the case at FKG where an automated diatribe is played every now and then.

HH · 24 May 2016

Butts said:
Welcome to Abellio aka Ryanair ....latest wheeze on my last two journeys they have started flogging Plusbus over the tannoy as we approach Edinburgh.

As a complaint that looks a long reach.

Firstly one of the things TS most wants from its Franchisee is to work strongly with other forms of public transport, such as buses. Abellio are therefore doing a good job from their PoV. It's nothing at all like Ryanair.

Equally I know that the Scottish Government wanted a ban on smoking on stations. Abellio have been politically astute in introducing a ban that had been in place on other UK stations for some time.

mbreckers · 24 May 2016

Abellio ScotRail had always stated that they would not enforce the no smoking on open platforms rule until the appropriate signage was installed at all stations. (it did take a while but)

I also wholly support the smoking ban, if you want to smoke do it in your own house where you can slowly poison yourself in peace, i dont want any of your second-hand smoke ****e

Butts · 25 May 2016

HH said:
As a complaint that looks a long reach.

Firstly one of the things TS most wants from its Franchisee is to work strongly with other forms of public transport, such as buses. Abellio are therefore doing a good job from their PoV. It's nothing at all like Ryanair.

A shame they are charging £3.40 for the Edinburgh one when it is only £3 if you buy it as an add on to a ticket online.

Equally I know that the Scottish Government wanted a ban on smoking on stations. Abellio have been politically astute in introducing a ban that had been in place on other UK stations for some time.

Have you any evidence to substantiate that ?
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mbreckers said:
Abellio ScotRail had always stated that they would not enforce the no smoking on open platforms rule until the appropriate signage was installed at all stations. (it did take a while but)

I also wholly support the smoking ban, if you want to smoke do it in your own house where you can slowly poison yourself in peace, i dont want any of your second-hand smoke ****e

The signage has been in place for ages, the staff seem ambivalent towards it. As BTP are responsible for enforcing the ban it's hardly suprising

I do hope you manage to traverse a High Street without being asphyxiated :roll:

Haig paxton · 25 May 2016

And I am opposed to the absolute fortune being spent on replacing nearly new station signage with new ones that have a riduculous and pointless Gaelic translation. We are NOT a bilingual nation.

Blindtraveler · 25 May 2016

Some would disagree with you on that one but likewise it is a lot of money that is needed elsewhere. As the friend of snokers I understand the upset felt about an open platform no longer being a permitted venue for a quick puff and wish theyd iether propperly police it or not bother and leave foalk alome.
I dont smoke and dont like others doing so but as long as theres plenty fresh air round its not harming me so why should I moan? An open station platform offerrs a good place IMO

47271 · 25 May 2016

And you often see staff having a crafty puff on open platforms. I would only get annoyed if someone was doing it so close to me that I could smell it.

As for Plusbus, I think there's an individual conductor who's keen on promoting it, and with the best of intentions - good on him. I used to hear him now and again in First days but I see very little about the scheme generally. They'd only be like Ryanair if they were trying to sell cheap fags off the buffet trolley.

In all seriousness, I'm seeing very little difference to First as a day to day user. I'm sure that we're getting more faults on the 170s, but the fleet is so stretched and Abellio can't be blamed for that. I moaned about their customer service in the early days but the case I had with them recently was handled very professionally and efficiently. Management of the Queen Street closure has been pretty slick too I'm sure we'd all agree and they came out looking pretty good from the recent NR Flying Scotsman gauging shambles.

Clearly all's not well with the RMT at the moment but without proper knowledge of the issues I wouldn't like to pass an opinion on that.

I think they're fine, but Scotrail was always one of First's brighter spots anyway.

Altnabreac · 25 May 2016

Haig paxton said:
And I am opposed to the absolute fortune being spent on replacing nearly new station signage with new ones that have a riduculous and pointless Gaelic translation. We are NOT a bilingual nation.

Nearly all the Gaelic signs have been done as part of the rollout of the Saltire branding anyway.

The additional cost of putting Gaelic on new signs being put up anyway is very marginal.

We are obviously not a bilingual country but there is little harm in acknowledging a part of our cultural history and if it attracts a few more tourists all the better.

On a more prosaic point virtually all the Gaelic signs were erected by the previous franchise so this is maybe the wrong thread to moan on.

Butts · 25 May 2016

Altnabreac said:
Nearly all the Gaelic signs have been done as part of the rollout of the Saltire branding anyway.

The additional cost of putting Gaelic on new signs being put up anyway is very marginal.

We are obviously not a bilingual country but there is little harm in acknowledging a part of our cultural history and if it attracts a few more tourists all the better.

On a more prosaic point virtually all the Gaelic signs were erected by the previous franchise so this is maybe the wrong thread to moan on.

I have not seen any signs on stations in Scotland saying.....

Smocadh Toirmisgte

47271 · 25 May 2016

I'd sooner moan about some people on this forum getting down with the kids and calling Fort William 'Fort Bill'. An Gearasdan will do just fine.

Haig paxton · 25 May 2016

Altnabreac said:
Nearly all the Gaelic signs have been done as part of the rollout of the Saltire branding anyway.

The additional cost of putting Gaelic on new signs being put up anyway is very marginal.

We are obviously not a bilingual country but there is little harm in acknowledging a part of our cultural history and if it attracts a few more tourists all the better.

On a more prosaic point virtually all the Gaelic signs were erected by the previous franchise so this is maybe the wrong thread to moan on.

Sorry but you're wrong on this one. The main stations had a Gaelic translation but most others simply had a like for like Saltire replacement with English only. It's in the past year that these adequate signs have been replaced with the Gaelic ones and i'm sure it's not cheap. TS and Scotrail have an agenda but over 99% of Scots do not speak the language.

The most recent routes with Gaelic signage are Paisley Canal, Gourock, East Kilbride, Largs, Ayr and the GSWR via Dumfries where i'm certain Gaelic was never spoken.

Altnabreac · 25 May 2016

Haig paxton said:
Sorry but you're wrong on this one. The main stations had a Gaelic translation but most others simply had a like for like Saltire replacement with English only. It's in the past year that these adequate signs have been replaced with the Gaelic ones and i'm sure it's not cheap.

The most recent routes with Gaelic signage are Paisley Canal, Gourock, East Kilbride, Largs, Ayr and the GSWR via Dumfries where i'm certain Gaelic was never spoken.

I'm afraid the dates Gaelic was installed on many stations is a matter of record:
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Gaelic+Station+Names

There is a good list of Gaelic Station names on this site which lists when they were installed.
Paisley Canal - Gaelic in 2011
Gourock - Gaelic in 2014
East Kilbride - Gaelic in 2010
Largs - Gaelic in 2011
Ayr - Gaelic in 2014
Dumfries - Gaelic in 2012

The majority of the 2015 Gaelic sign installations have been in West Highlands and Far North where pre existing Gaelic signs were replaced by new ones in order to comply with the Saltire branding, rather than because of any installation of Gaelic. I think most of these were completed in early 2015 before the Franchise change as full Saltire rollout was a commitment of the previous franchise extension although some areas were not quite complete in time.

I suspect there may have been some more Gaelic boards done under Abellio but relatively few. Dunbar would be one after it transferred from East Coast and was rebranded with Saltire branding.

Galwegian was certainly spoken in most of the SW of Scotland so those aren't great examples of areas with no history of Gaelic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galwegian_Gaelic

There are areas like Caithness, East Lothian and Annandale that have very little history of Gaelic speaking but it really isn't worth getting upset by a few station signs.

Highland37 · 25 May 2016

Haig paxton said:
Sorry but you're wrong on this one. The main stations had a Gaelic translation but most others simply had a like for like Saltire replacement with English only. It's in the past year that these adequate signs have been replaced with the Gaelic ones and i'm sure it's not cheap. TS and Scotrail have an agenda but over 99% of Scots do not speak the language.

The most recent routes with Gaelic signage are Paisley Canal, Gourock, East Kilbride, Largs, Ayr and the GSWR via Dumfries where i'm certain Gaelic was never spoken.

Actually you are incorrect yourself. The signs replacement preceded the Saltire roll out on the trains. I know as I was involved in it.

Also, it's not a "translation". You are certainly demonstrating your point about lack of bilingualism. It's a common monolingual mindset to think that everything is translated as if only English has a name for places and all other languages translate it. This is not true at all.

One of the main reasons is that Gaelic is not sued so much is because its use is prevented by excluding it.

Mordac · 25 May 2016

Haig paxton said:
And I am opposed to the absolute fortune being spent on replacing nearly new station signage with new ones that have a riduculous and pointless Gaelic translation. We are NOT a bilingual nation.

I would say we are a bilingual nation, but the second language is Scots, not Gaelic. It really is one of my pet peeves to see Scots continually ignored in favour of a language that has not been spoken by more than a small minority for centuries. By all means, put Gaelic signs up in Gaelic speaking areas, but why can't they put Scots signs up in the Lallans?

oldman · 25 May 2016

Mordac said:
I would say we are a bilingual nation, but the second language is Scots, not Gaelic. It really is one of my pet peeves to see Scots continually ignored in favour of a language that has not been spoken by more than a small minority for centuries. By all means, put Gaelic signs up in Gaelic speaking areas, but why can't they put Scots signs up in the Lallans?

I see your location is Edinburgh. Embra surely

. But who would decide?

Observer · 25 May 2016

Haig paxton said:
TS and Scotrail have an agenda but over 99% of Scots do not speak the language.

They're just being told what to do by their masters, the SNP Government, who certainly have an agenda on pushing a dead language on people.

Altnabreac · 25 May 2016

Observer said:
They're just being told what to do by their masters, the SNP Government, who certainly have an agenda on pushing a dead language on people.

Given the small numbers who speak Gaelic I'm not particularly convinced there is a huge political benefit to it.

It's certainly not a dead language though.

As an Englishman resident in Scotland I certainly don't find it offensive or part of a nationalist agenda.

Bit of cultural cringe maybe on show here maybe?

Highland37 · 25 May 2016

Observer said:
They're just being told what to do by their masters, the SNP Government, who certainly have an agenda on pushing a dead language on people.

This is a good example of where someone can be well informed on one subject (rail matters) but utterly clueless on another (Gaelic). Clearly not dead given people use it. The other issue with your post is that the SNP have been pretty poor on Gaelic and Labour much better. For example, the facts show that most of the signs, such as those on roads, were put up under Labour.

your post is the equivalent of a train driver arguing a signal is that at green when it's at red.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Altnabreac said:
Given the small numbers who speak Gaelic I'm not particularly convinced there is a huge political benefit to it.

It's certainly not a dead language though.

As an Englishman resident in Scotland I certainly don't find it offensive or part of a nationalist agenda.

Bit of cultural cringe maybe on show here maybe?

Huge, coupled with a very poor understanding and avoidance of facts.

NotATrainspott · 25 May 2016

Highland37 said:
This is a good example of where someone can be well informed on one subject (rail matters) but utterly clueless on another (Gaelic). Clearly not dead given people use it. The other issue with your post is that the SNP have been pretty poor on Gaelic and Labour much better. For example, the facts show that most of the signs, such as those on roads, were put up under Labour.

Might that be because Gaelic need only be added to signs once?

Haig paxton · 25 May 2016

Gaelic doesn't have to be added to any signs, it serves no point at all. After all those who speak Gaelic presumably also speak English so what is the point of it?

Abellio Scotrail - 1 year on

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