ATW and Welsh speakers

Drsatan · 10 May 2016

I've applied for the Trainee Conductor role based in Carmarthen. I'm English (but have lived in Wales for the past 18 months) and don't speak a word of welsh. Given the job is based in Carmarthen, would ATW actively look for Welsh speakers?

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krus_aragon · 11 May 2016

I'm not aware that ATW actively seek Welsh-speaking staff for station or on-board roles. As a private company they don't have the same statutory requirements as public bodies, although they do have a Welsh Language Policy which should be available on their website, should you want to browse it.

The normal medium of communication with passengers is invariably English. Sometimes I'll hear a guard speak Welsh with some individual passengers, generally ones they already know personally. There are also a handful of guards who choose to make bilingual on-board announcements, but they are far from a majority.

185 · 11 May 2016

Less likely to be important an the deep south, however it may help.

For a role in Chester, I was asked if I spoke Welsh, which, for those of us from Chester is a bit of an insult. I can understand it for jobs based somewhere up the coast or on the Cambrian but not at an English station in an English city, that should be irrelevant.

I don't expect people overseas to speak my language, so why should one of ATWs HR people? :P

Dai_Llama · 11 May 2016

There is no requirement to speak the greatest language in the World to work for ATW.

Those bilingual conductors will make public announcements in both English and Welsh which is nice to hear.

craigybagel · 11 May 2016

Several English staff at Carmarthen, I wouldn't worry. The last trainee taken on there was from Essex originally! My own depot only has 1 Welsh guard and he doesn't speak any Welsh as far as I am aware.

ChiefPlanner · 11 May 2016

Actually nice (says he with a GCSE in Welsh only) - to hear Welsh spoken by passengers on both the NW Coast and in West Wales.

paul1609 · 11 May 2016

I've been in the Royal Navy for some years and served with loads of Welsh lads. So far I've yet to meet one who can speak more than schoolboy Welsh. In the same time I've served with two Gaelic speakers.

kaine19 · 11 May 2016

paul1609 said:
I've been in the Royal Navy for some years and served with loads of Welsh lads. So far I've yet to meet one who can speak more than schoolboy Welsh. In the same time I've served with two Gaelic speakers.

I can back that up also also ex navy. I think maybe one lad I came across only spoke about 10 Welsh words haha

Dai_Llama · 11 May 2016

paul1609 said:
I've been in the Royal Navy for some years and served with loads of Welsh lads. So far I've yet to meet one who can speak more than schoolboy Welsh. In the same time I've served with two Gaelic speakers.

kaine19 said:
I can back that up also also ex navy. I think maybe one lad I came across only spoke about 10 Welsh words haha

They must be South Walians then :lol:

Greenback · 12 May 2016

People do speak Welsh in south Wales, you can hear it regularly on the streets of Llanelli and Carmarthen.

It's right to say that there's no requirement to speak Welsh to work for ATW. I don't think I've ever heard any staff to passenger conversation being held in Welsh in all the years I've been travelling on ATW's trains. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it must be pretty rare.

krus_aragon · 12 May 2016

Greenback said:
People do speak Welsh in south Wales, you can hear it regularly on the streets of Llanelli and Carmarthen.

It's right to say that there's no requirement to speak Welsh to work for ATW. I don't think I've ever heard any staff to passenger conversation being held in Welsh in all the years I've been travelling on ATW's trains. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it must be pretty rare.

To expand on the experiences I related earlier in the thread: I can only recall encountering one guard that has done bilingual tannoy announcements (with most of my travel being in North Wales, the Marches and the Cardiff Valleys). I have encountered a handful conversing in Welsh with some individual passengers (presumably regulars), generally on the North Wales Coast and my few journeys on the Cambrian. I'd agree that it's pretty rare overall.

Phil. · 12 May 2016

Dai_Llama said:
There is no requirement to speak the greatest language in the World to work for ATW.

Those bilingual conductors will make public announcements in both English and Welsh which is nice to hear.

"There is no...."

Surely they need to speak English...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No-one in Wales in monolingual in Welsh.

craigybagel · 12 May 2016

krus_aragon said:
To expand on the experiences I related earlier in the thread: I can only recall encountering one guard that has done bilingual tannoy announcements (with most of my travel being in North Wales, the Marches and the Cardiff Valleys). I have encountered a handful conversing in Welsh with some individual passengers (presumably regulars), generally on the North Wales Coast and my few journeys on the Cambrian. I'd agree that it's pretty rare overall.

There's at least one HHD guard who does his announcements in two languages, Welsh first, even on the Crewe-Chester shuttle! I myself have used 3 different languages to suit the passenger load but Welsh is sadly not one of them.....

Greenback · 12 May 2016

I've never heard any bilingual announcements from guards in the south. I can't remember hearing any on the Cambrian Coast either, but as it's more of a Welsh speaking area, I wouldn't be surprised if I did hear one.

Twenty odd years ago I did used to hear quite a bit of Welsh being spoken by passengers between Pwllheli and Machynlleth. The trains I used to catch in those days tended to be more used by the locals than by visitors.

Any time that staff do use Welsh on trains I'd bet it was just for their own and their passengers convenience, rather than being in any way compulsory.

Llanigraham · 12 May 2016

Greenback said:
People do speak Welsh in south Wales, you can hear it regularly on the streets of Llanelli and Carmarthen.

It's right to say that there's no requirement to speak Welsh to work for ATW. I don't think I've ever heard any staff to passenger conversation being held in Welsh in all the years I've been travelling on ATW's trains. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it must be pretty rare.

Certainly hear it on the Cambrian Coast.
I have even heard it being used on the phone at Machy SCC (unofficially)

Surprising how often you hear it spoken in Cardiff and Pontypridd now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Phil. said:
"There is no...."

Surely they need to speak English...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No-one in Wales in monolingual in Welsh.

Why do they need to speak English if they live in a monoglot Welsh community?

Maybe not, but I know of a few people who have difficulty speaking in English.

Phil. · 12 May 2016

Llanigraham said:
Certainly hear it on the Cambrian Coast.
I have even heard it being used on the phone at Machy SCC (unofficially)

Surprising how often you hear it spoken in Cardiff and Pontypridd now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why do they need to speak English if they live in a monoglot Welsh community?

Maybe not, but I know of a few people who have difficulty speaking in English.

So do I and they tend to be English chavs - know wot I'm sayin'?

headshot119 · 13 May 2016

Llanigraham said:
Certainly hear it on the Cambrian Coast.
I have even heard it being used on the phone at Machy SCC (unofficially)

Surprising how often you hear it spoken in Cardiff and Pontypridd now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why do they need to speak English if they live in a monoglot Welsh community?

Maybe not, but I know of a few people who have difficulty speaking in English.

Mach ended up with a section of the box instructions dedicated to not being allowed to use Welsh on the crossing telephone lines to members of the public.

I think some of the West Wales boxes also ended up with something similar.

krus_aragon · 13 May 2016

craigybagel said:
There's at least one HHD guard who does his announcements in two languages, Welsh first, even on the Crewe-Chester shuttle!

That's the individual I was describing. I didn't know exactly where they were based, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Greenback said:
Any time that staff do use Welsh on trains I'd bet it was just for their own and their passengers convenience, rather than being in any way compulsory.

I might add 'courtesy' to 'convenience', but yes, there's no obligation.

Greenback · 13 May 2016

krus_aragon said:
I might add 'courtesy' to 'convenience', but yes, there's no obligation.

Yeah, that's a fair shout

Llanigraham · 13 May 2016

headshot119 said:
Mach ended up with a section of the box instructions dedicated to not being allowed to use Welsh on the crossing telephone lines to members of the public.

I think some of the West Wales boxes also ended up with something similar.

Cough!
I did say unofficially!

LNW-GW Joint · 13 May 2016

Always good fun to listen to a Crewe conductor mangling the station names on the Central Wales line

.

It would be wrong to categorise Chester as English-only or Welsh-resistant.
There are many people living and working there with strong Welsh connections, and of course a fair proportion of the passengers passing through are Welsh.
Chester is also where many Welsh folk spend their money, and there's a decent proportion of Welsh-speakers nearby in Clwyd, including Welsh-medium schools.
The other "English" Marches towns have similar strong Welsh connections.

I think the departure sheets at Chester are bilingual, but ATW produces English-only further east.
The English auto-announcer is the same at Chester as other ATW stations and on the trains.
The Welsh version is added at Welsh stations (and is exceptionally tedious, when you add request stops, no smoking and security messages).
Train displays are bilingual (including the revolting Cryw for Crewe on the Chester/Shrewsbury shuttles

).
I've never heard a manual on-board announcement in Welsh.
Virgin is similar to ATW - bilingual PIS, some Welsh crew, occasional chats in Welsh but all announcements in English.

There's this from the Welsh Government in the recent ICWC franchise consultation:

Improving the use of Welsh language in the delivery of rail services, supporting the Welsh Governments vision to see Welsh language thriving in Wales.

The consultation paper was itself produced in Welsh as well as English.

craigybagel · 13 May 2016

LNW-GW Joint said:
Always good fun to listen to a Crewe conductor mangling the station names on the Central Wales line .

As part of the route learning packs new guards from the two English depots that work down there (Crewe and also Shrewsbury) get a sheet with the station spelt out phonetically. Personally I enjoy the challenge and always try and announce the lot!

The Welsh version is added at Welsh stations (and is exceptionally tedious, when you add request stops, no smoking and security messages).

Cardiff Central is particularly ridiculous, especially Platforms 6 and 7 for the Valleys.

TeaTrain · 13 May 2016

There is indeed at least one guard making his announcements in Welsh at HHD. And people genuinely are pleased to hear it. He gets praise a lot and it allows him to connect with his pax a lot more.

When ATW had the franchise agreement there were no stipulations to use the Welsh language or promote it. It may undoubtedly change in 2018 but as it stands now. No it wont effect your application at all.

Greenback · 14 May 2016

It may change or it will undoubtedly change, but I can't see how it can be both. Sorry to be pedantic :lol:

TeaTrain · 15 May 2016

Jeeeeeezzzzz...He he no problem. That's habit and bad grammar lol. I will try again.

The franchise ends in 2018 with a possible extension. Either way the WAG will probably try to lean towards promoting the Welsh language and hire more welsh speaking staff. It certainly makes sense especially with it even making headlines in the paper complaining barely any staff speak the local language. But as it stands right now. It won't effect your application. I lived in London for 10 years before moving back to Wales. I couldn't remember much of my Welsh and have picked up some again. Most people are happy with a diolch yn fawr. Or if you really are feeling good on the day you can, for a laugh make the announcement in full for LlanfairPG which always gets a clap from the tourists.

On my application it said my first language is English. Second was actually Korean. Third Welsh and fourth Mandarin. So I think you will be fine lol.

p.s. there is UNDOUBTEDLY (?) grammar mistakes.....(all in good spirit!

)

Greenback · 15 May 2016

Much better, A+ :lol:

ATW and Welsh speakers

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