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S&C closed North of Kirkby Stephen

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trainmananthon

trainmananthon

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Lemmy99uk said:
I don't think that is very likely

200 people being sent from Carlisle to Kirkby Stephen to catch a f&s train back to Appleby will not work.

It will be even worse in reverse. All the Carlisle passengers and Leeds passengers trying to get on the same train!
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I'm sure we'll find out closer to the time how they are going to work it, but for now this is what some of the guards on the line have been told.

Other problems I can see, however, with coaches from Kirkby Stephen is A) Where is the coach going to park/turn around and B) What about disabled/elderly passengers, as the station isn't exactly disabled/wheelchair friendly.

All will be revealed closer to the time though.
 
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Lemmy99uk

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trainmananthon said:
I'm sure we'll find out closer to the time how they are going to work it, but for now this is what some of the guards on the line have been told.

Other problems I can see, however, with coaches from Kirkby Stephen is A) Where is the coach going to park/turn around and B) What about disabled/elderly passengers, as the station isn't exactly disabled/wheelchair friendly.

All will be revealed closer to the time though.
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Fat bus service Carlisle to Kirkby Stephen (for people travelling towards Leeds)

Slow bus service Carlisle to Langwathby for intermediate stations.

Train service running Langwathby to Leeds. Trains running on the down line in both directions using the main to main crossover at Appelby to regain the up line when heading south.

All subject to NWR agreeing the paths.
 
LeylandLen

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Rail Replacement Buses/ coaches can obviously come in different sizes . This thread mentions mini-buses. Last year I was on a RRB from Preston to Bolton.
It was a double-decker , probably usually used on express motorway services as it had a toilet , ample luggage space, no doubt coffee/tea making equipment for use on express motorway services., but there were no more than a dozen passengers who joined at Preston that Saturday afternoon.Unless already agreed in contract, I assume services can depend on availability of vehicles and drivers.
 
trainmananthon

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Lankyline said:
Network Rail's estimate of reopening is Spring 2017
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Really can't see that happening, given the size of it!

The quote the S&C staff and us volunteers have is still 18 months with the potential of upto 2 years for a full reopening.

I believe an official announcement is going to be made next month confirming the method used to rebuild the embankment/railway and an estimated timescale before reopening.

Anthony
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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Yes, it's quite shocking. Just goes to show that when supporters of new-build high-speed lines talk about the need for something better than Victorian infrastructure they may have a point. Have a look at any newly built line, high-speed or otherwise, home or abroad, and you'll find slope angles of cuttings and embankments somewhat gentler than those on historic routes. The Forth Bridge may have been over-engineered, railway earthworks however.....
 
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daikilo

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bluenoxid said:
To be honest, those earthworks have done a good few years service.
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No doubt, but they were the type of inccident which lead Dr. Beeching to recommend closure of swathes of line. Presumably there are major issues with north-South and v.v routings at present, or maybe there are not .....
 
yorksrob

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daikilo said:
No doubt, but they were the type of inccident which lead Dr. Beeching to recommend closure of swathes of line. Presumably there are major issues with north-South and v.v routings at present, or maybe there are not .....
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Arguably, this type of incident also exposes the complete folly of the policy of closing duplicate routes.
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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yorksrob said:
Arguably, this type of incident also exposes the complete folly of the policy of closing duplicate routes.
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Without taking this discussion too far OT it also raises the question as to whether maintenance regimes for earthworks need to be re-appraised. It might well be that a suitably rigourous maintenance plan could avoid any need to retain duplicate routes just as a safeguard. All about ££££s.
 
yorksrob

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najaB said:
Of course, the flip side is the folly of having to split the maintenance budget two ways...
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Ah, nice comeback, but I'm still not convinced !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shaw S Hunter said:
Without taking this discussion too far OT it also raises the question as to whether maintenance regimes for earthworks need to be re-appraised. It might well be that a suitably rigourous maintenance plan could avoid any need to retain duplicate routes just as a safeguard. All about ££££s.
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Well, maintenance regimes will undoubtedly need to be re-appraised in the light of climate change and increased severe weather. That said, you will never eliminate the need for contingencies such as duplicate routes.
 
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Peter Sarf

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Just have to work out what duplicate routes are worth keeping. I also wonder if better monitoring and better drainage might have lead to this particular piece of earthworks being more stable. I do think the wetter weather we seem to be getting of late might be overcoming a few Victorian assumptions that have however been fine for about 100 years.
 
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A0wen

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yorksrob said:
Arguably, this type of incident also exposes the complete folly of the policy of closing duplicate routes.
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Except this one was a duplicate of a duplicate in some respects.

The WCML has a couple of diversion options if the section between Carnforth & Carlisle is closed - the S&C being one - the other being the Cumbrian Coast line.

And for Anglo-Scottish services there's also the option of running Carlisle - Newcastle and down the ECML as well.
 
yorksrob

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A0wen said:
Except this one was a duplicate of a duplicate in some respects.

The WCML has a couple of diversion options if the section between Carnforth & Carlisle is closed - the S&C being one - the other being the Cumbrian Coast line.

And for Anglo-Scottish services there's also the option of running Carlisle - Newcastle and down the ECML as well.
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Except you can't fit anything other than Mk 2's around the Cumbrian Coast.

The only sense in which the S&C is a "duplicate of a duplicate" is that it replaced the Ingleton line from Clapham, and that's long since gone.
 
yorksrob

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I notice in "Rail" that the FOSC are urging NR to run trains to Armathwaite. I'm inclined to agree, given the length of time the route will be closed it must justify the installation of a temporary crossover.

Ideally it should be sited South of the station so that all trains could be concentrated on the down platform as this has better access. The concerns about a lack of station toilets will be less relevant with a much shorter bus journey.
 
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D1009

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yorksrob said:
I notice in "Rail" that the FOSC are urging NR to run trains to Armathwaite. I'm inclined to agree, given the length of time the route will be closed it must justify the installation of a temporary crossover.

Ideally it should be sited South of the station so that all trains could be concentrated on the down platform as this has better access. The concerns about a lack of station toilets will be less relevant with a much shorter bus journey.
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As discussed on page 7 of this thread.
 
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A0wen

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yorksrob said:
Except you can't fit anything other than Mk 2's around the Cumbrian Coast.

The only sense in which the S&C is a "duplicate of a duplicate" is that it replaced the Ingleton line from Clapham, and that's long since gone.
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Erm, not quite:
"Since 2006 Network Rail have eased clearance restrictions so as to allow Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaching stock to operate the full route, although under strict instructions that all drop-light windows must be ether stewarded or locked between Maryport and Carlisle"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian_Coast_Line

Would Mk3 clearance mean Voyagers are cleared?
 
yorksrob

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A0wen said:
Erm, not quite:
"Since 2006 Network Rail have eased clearance restrictions so as to allow Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaching stock to operate the full route, although under strict instructions that all drop-light windows must be ether stewarded or locked between Maryport and Carlisle"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian_Coast_Line

Would Mk3 clearance mean Voyagers are cleared?
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Well, that's certainly an improvement.

However, the S&C is straighter, more direct and double track (almost) throughout, which makes it the primary diversion route for the North WCML.
 
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Mordac

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samgeorge965 said:
I saw that on their twitter feed, great news just a shame it took them so long. I presume they have extended it to Armathwaite as a mean to encourage more visitors to use the line?
Sam
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I found it by complete happenstance when I was looking for the Tyne Valley timetables. No idea how long it's been up. They don't seem to be publicising it very much.
 
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